UKC

I know plenty of you on here wear em, but I'm not convinced. Alright, they are very aesthetically pleasing, but for winter climbing? My understanding is the majority of these soft shells aren't waterproof, so you would still have to carry a hard shell. Now with a waterproof soft shell there must be a sacrifice, ie: weight, breathability. How is this system better than, base layer, powerstretch, hard shell? I always use this system, with a lightweight primaloft layer under the shell if its really cold, and at stances I through a belay parka over the lot. Primaloft in UK, down in Alps. I like the look of these soft shells and they feel good on, but how practical are they?

In reply to Twinkletoes: Throw. I don't want the spelling police to eject me

In reply to Twinkletoes:

Why would you? I never used to when I was climbing every weekend in Scotland. And I'm still here.

In reply to TobyA:

Exactly what I'm after. We all know skin is waterproof etc.

In reply to Twinkletoes: Please, I want convincing. I need an excuse to buy one, other than them looking good around town.

In reply to Twinkletoes:

Depends where you're winter climbing really, in Norway I'd choose one over a hardshell almost all the time, if it's in this country and it's likely to be really damp or sleety then you might be better with a hardshell. The majority of softshells I've come into contact with are fairly well waterproofed and would be alright unless you were out in a downpour.

In reply to Twinkletoes:
Basically it comes down to the fact that what you really want to do is stay warm rather then dry. Most of the time when your on the hill its not going to be "really" bad weather so all you need is something to keep of a shower / snow. Then as your doing stuff that's more aerobic you'll find you get too hot in your hard shell and get wet. When you stop this water cools you down. Because a soft shell is more breathable you don't get as hot and the fleece material removes any moisture that you do have faster so you stay warmer. When the proverbial hits your likely to be getting off the hill as fast as possible. This means that your generating enough heat that even though you get damp the soft shell keeps you warm and gets you down. My preferred system is base layer, soft shell. If it gets bad add a hardshell over the top. When its cold and I'm still add a belay jacket. (make sure you have hats gloves etc.. as these make a huge difference to warmth when just wearing the soft shell). So basically rather then replacing your hard shell it replaces the power stretch and is more flexible because it keeps the wind out and still feels (almost) as good as power stretch.

In reply to 31770:
also note theres a huge range of "soft shells" some of which perform better at particular jobs then others.

In reply to Twinkletoes:
Keeping the wind out for me is the best aspect compared to fleece, light snow brushes off rather than sticking.Put the shell on when its really bad and you are well happed up!

In reply to Twinkletoes: Buy paramo- waterproof (in practice) and warm and breathable

In reply to Twinkletoes: Well, could powerstetch not be categorised as a softshell also (it's a pretty broad term)? Since the whole concept is so heavily based on personal preference I doubt you will get the concrete answer you might be looking for.

In reply to Twinkletoes:

Let's be honest,if the manufacturers brought out Goretex bog-roll , some people would buy it !

As someone already stated, few of us are actually climbing in the weather that some of these garments are made for ! What's the point spending of our hard -earned cash for sometrhing that's going to be carried around in the sack, unless of course , you are a 'gear-snob' Lol !

In reply to Pyreneenemec:

Thats why I'm wearing my trusty old system, it works well for me, but I see that many soft shells in the gear shops I was wondering other folks take on it.

In reply to Twinkletoes: Thanks all, I'll probably mull over it for a couple of years yet

In reply to fish08:

if you gave em a bloody good dwr youd be close. however some softshells have a membrane and are only "not" waterproof at the seems unlike powerstretch which is not waterproof atall

In reply to Twinkletoes:

Do you mean schoeller type soft shell, or fleece/pertex type thing? In either case, for scotland you can walk in in these items in average conditions and be insulated from the wind unlike in a bog standard fleece, but unless the conditions are particularly good you'll still want a hard shell for the route, and maybe a belay jacket. Soft shell bottom half, on the other hand is the way forward unless very wet/slushy...

In reply to Twinkletoes:

If you are interested in Softshell jackets etc you'd be as well looking at specific jackets rather than the coverall term 'softshell'. There are loads of variations in spec, between brands, between styles. Some ARE specced as waterproof.
I'll tell you one thing I have noticed. They are more comfortable than Goretex type shells/ sallies. Much less sweaty.

Davie

In reply to Wee Davie: Is the breathability of the waterproof soft shell better than event or XCR, cause I sweat like a fat burd on walk ins, but find the Latok alpine pretty good.

In reply to whispering nic: Aye, should have said schoeller. I wore ATV trousers on Denali and was well impressed, but it was a very dry cold, they shed snow no problem.

In reply to Twinkletoes:

I don't know. Tam Ripley will be able to tell you the precise spec of everything on the market. I quite like my Rab jaiket- probably doesn't help you though.

Davie

In reply to Wee Davie:

Cheers Davie, but it might be past his bed time

In reply to Twinkletoes:


Highly unlikely.

The waterproof 'soft shell' fabrics commonly seen are Schoeller WB400, MHW's Conduit Softshell and Gore's SoftShell.

WB400 and Conduit are acrylate or PU membranes, and GSS is just Gore-tex with a softer handle face fabric and a fluffy scrim.

So I suspect you'd sweat more in a 'soft shell' made from one of these fabrics than in your eVent Rab Latok.

In reply to captain paranoia: tho ive not used Event itd have to WAY better then XCR to beat Gore softshell on breathability and i mean WAY!!!!!!!! better
hows it going anyway long time since tim and pennies house warming thingy

In reply to merchant of menace:

Hmmm.... it's possible that GSS is made using air-permeable GTX. Which would thus be as breathable as eVent. I've never heard anyone praise GSS for breathability until now, and my limited experience wasn't outstanding.

One test: can you blow air through GSS? (do you have one of eVent's 'bubble chambers' handy...?

I wish I'd bought the Adidas GSS jacket I saw in TKM at the weekend for £25... Just for a longer test. Shame it was XL...