In reply to Robin: Urban rock in london have them- assume that the big shope- outside etc. will do as well. I have one and it's the muts nuts for any big routes- big enough for shoes for the descent- plus camera, guidebook- map if it's a huge route, water and chow and an extra layer- the bandolier is great for winter as well - stops your feet fouling in your own gear and lets you see whats going on down there.
