UKC

Wanting to buy some Quick Draws to use in the coming year & having never had any before whats the best combination to get,wire gates at both ends,strait one end & bent at the other or a combo of wire & either strait or bent.Whats the best way to go?

In reply to Granty: what type(s) of climbing do you want them for?

personally if i was buying mine again they'd all be wiregates for the weight saving alone

In reply to Granty:

I often like the smoothness of solid gate crabs but most of my rack is full of wiregates, their lighter, generally cheaper, and apperantly don't get frozen up so easily in winter conditions.

Bent gate for clipping is sometimes nice, but I'm sure if you use them alot its not really a problem, I still have to fumble sometimes when I'm in a desperate situation.

In reply to rich:
Hi Rich,want to do both Trad & Sport all in the Peak District.

In reply to Reaver2k:
Do you think the wire gates are as durable as solid gates or not.

In reply to Granty:


They are more durable - a wiregate has 2 parts, a solid gate has at least 4.

Wiregates generally do not seize or become stiff, solid gates do.
Wiregates are easier to clip period, so easy a bent wire gate is not necessary, though some do exist.

Solid gates are best treated as superceded.

In reply to Granty: You need straight at one end and bent gate at the other, or some other method of differentiating between the crabs, as you want to reserve one type for clipping bolts, and the other end for clipping the rope in order to avoid rope damage from any burrs that the crabs pick up from bolt hangers.

In reply to co1ps:

Whats wrong with the elastic band that holds the bottom krab in place? Its obvious enough when your racking up, so when you reach for them they are the right way round.

In reply to co1ps:
Whats your view on solid gates seizing up and becoming stiff,VisionSet has obviously encountered this problem.

In reply to Granty:

What do you want them for?

I like wire at each end. Long thin (doubled or trebbled) dyneema between them and no elastic bands on the krabs. Ideal for trad, waste of money for sport.

jk

In reply to Granty:


More so.
jk

In reply to jkarran:

Was hoping to build a rack that I could use for both sport and trad but judging from the replies it seems that a set of wires for trad and straight/bent solids for sport is whats needed.

In reply to Granty: I'd disagree with that. There is an argument that wiregates are marginally more likely to self-unclip on bolt hangers but how much of a problem this is likely to be in reality is largely down to your own judgement. It's probably less of an issue with staples anyway.

My own view is that wiregates should be fine for sport. It's the length of the QD extender rather than the krab type that makes more difference IMO, with extenders for trad being longer: 15cm minimum, 20cm better and a few that extend to 60cm. Sport QDs are usually shorter, around 10cm, because the bolts should be placed so as reduce unnecessary zig-zagging of the rope (remember bolts can be placed anywhere there's solid rock, whereas trad gear needs a natural placement to exist). That said, the only significant disadvantage I know of when using trad-length QDs for sport is that you may fall a few cm further if you come off the rock.

So I'd say that there's little pressing need to have two sets of QDs. However, if money isn't an obstacle than by all means go ahead and get two sets.

In reply to Martin W:
>That said, the only significant disadvantage I know of when using trad-length QDs for sport is that you may fall a few cm further if you come off the rock.

Agreed. Buy some 20cm's you won't notice falling a extra 10cm.

In reply to Granty:

I use my long (30cm) trad quickdraws for sport, it's no bother at all once you get over the few odd looks you occasionally get.
They've wires one end, and a mix of straight and bent gates for the gear end. The weird mix is a result of buying cheap gear initially and gradually replacing it as and when I have a rainy day to fill

Wires both ends work fine and 20cm is a nice comporomise if you dont want to be folding up 60cm slings (IMHO the best all round solution).

You really don't need 2 sets. If you really want to buy lots of gear (I know it can be fun) then just double up on the sling part, get a set of 10cm slings and a set of 60s. I wouldn't bother, I'd rather waste the money on toys or beer.
jk

In reply to Granty: I use wire gates on varying length slings for a couple of reasons - they're lighter (marginally), but more importantly they don't open when banged. Try it with a solid gate, whack the back of it on your hand and you'll hear it snap shut, you don't even have to whack it that hard. I was climbing indoors with a mate when I had just started out (pre-wire gate days) and he took a pearler whilst trying to clip. The clip that took the fall must have opened and also must have stretched then contracted because the gate was on the other side afterwards. If you look on the side of the clip you see it's maximum force rating, which is significantly less when it is open - about 75% less!

In reply to Granty:
Thanks to all who took the time to reply to my questions its been very helpful
Regards Granty.

In reply to Granty:

Personally i think its a trust issue with wiregates, i know everything has been tried and tested, but it always plays on my mind, what if the rope strain is temporarily on the gate for whatever reason? so i prefer solid gates.

I bought a set of DMM Mamba's and love them! that the krab is designed purely for the purpose and mine are anodised orange & purple which looks cool.

www.dmmclimbing.com/about.asp?id=18

(pic on there^^)

In reply to Granty:

saying that v12 outdoor shop is selling DMM Aero quickdraws for 8.50p, pretty cheap =)

In reply to Spitfire:


The krabs still have a rating for cross-loading. If you do this the back of the karabiner will break before the gate. It's not a problem.

In reply to Spitfire:


1) Trust: wiregate krabs are tested and rated for cross-loading the same as solid gate krabs. The WC Helium wiregate, as an example, is rated at 9kN cross-loaded which exceeds the UIAA standard by 2kN.

2) Needlesports used to have a picture of a wiregate Eclipse which had been tested cross-loaded and which failed at nearly double its rated value. Fortunately, the Internet archive has a copy of their web site from that time: http://web.archive.org/web/20070516213443/http://www.needlesports.com/acata...
(Note that it was the back bar of the krab that eventually broke, not the gate. You might want to speculate as to whether a solid gate would be stronger than the back bar. While you're at it, bear in mind also that a solid gate pivots on...a piece of wire.)

3) If you go about habitually cross-loading your krabs (I'm not suggesting that Mr Spitfire does, mind) then I'd suggest you have problems beyond which type of krab to choose!

My conclusion: wiregates are no less safe than solid gates in this respect, and quite possibly safer.

In reply to Granty:

lol guys i am no dispute over the breaking strain of either solid or wiregates, my opinion was that for a trust issue, i find it more reassuring to use solids when doing overhangs etc. Not saying which is better, purely that it is my choice of my experiances.

In reply to Spitfire: using these at the moment for sport and they are fine, no probs clipping into bolts or with the rope. I'd recommend them at the price...although no experience of trad so maybe need a second opinion from a beardy (and before everyone flames I'm pulling your individual legs...so to speak)

In reply to Martin W:
Had a look at the needlesports link Martin,does seem wires are no less safe than solids.The last bit of your item 2)gets us all thinking ....bear in mind also that a solid gate pivots on...a piece of wire.)

Nice one.

In reply to Spitfire:

I'm not arguing with that I haev a 'lucky' quickdraw, which is the biggest fattest solid gate krabs on the fattest nylon sling. It makes me feel safe.

In reply to Granty:

V12 are doing a deal where u get 10 DMM Spectre draws for 109 squid
http://www.v12outdoor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=69_57&products...

I got 7x18cm and 3 x 25cm a month or so ago as my first set of draws mainly intending them to be used for trad course im going on at PYB at easter time but i have used the 18cm for sport at the wall a number of times and they have been very nice, easy to clip and nice and light.

Delivery from v12 was very prompt as well which i was suprised about as i have had trouble from other companies taking up to a week in the past.

In reply to Granty:

I use shorter QDs for sport (10cm) and then extend them by swapping the short tapes for slings of various lengths (sometimes doubled up, ie folded) when on Trad. This gives me the baility to put runners in of barious length avoiding rope drag or pulling out my gear. I always use straight krab on the gear end and bent for clipping in. Works for me.

In reply to Rockmonkey680:

Apologies for dyslexic fingers when typing my last post!