UKC

snow and rock website has black diamond turbo ice screws at 25-30 quid, and the black diamond express ones at 40-45 quid.

it says the express ones are easier to place... are they so much easier its worth an extra £15 per screw...?

cotswold also have grivel ice screws, how do they fare in comparison with the BDs?

cheers

gregor

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:


On the whole, yes. The express are VASTLY easier to put in, especially if you are in any sort of extremis, so having the express rather than the standard may make the difference between having protection when you really need it and having none.


I've only really test placed the Grivel ones (if they are the ones I'm thinking of) and they seem very good. I thought it was hard to get anything better tban BD express, but Grivel seem to have managed it. The only downside that I have seen so far on them is that they are harder to get onto the ice-screw racking things that are used quite a lot on the continent for pure cascade climbing.

In reply to Simon4:
so having the express rather than the standard may make the difference between having protection when you really need it and having none.


i think thats sold them to me...!

they aint cheap though... say i was looking at trying something single pitch, grade III- IV ish, and around 20-30m, how many would most people take on something like that...?

cheers
gregor

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Are the cheaper screws the ones with black tops? Black ones heat up much faster in the sun.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I've got the cheaper Grivel screws (Helix, not 360, but think the screw part is the same) and they're really nice to place with their fixed handles. Obviously slightly more bulky to carry (although they do rack surprisingly neatly), and the fixed handle can limit placement options in really tight spots, but I'd certainly recommend them.

In reply to MD:

The Grivel screws have black brackets and colour-coded handles. Yellow for 20cm, black for 16cm, and red for 12cm. But I haven't noticed a problem with the sun...

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:



Scottish III-IV - I would probably take 3-5 screws in total, with a mixture of rock gear as well, to get in preferentially. On continental cascades with 50-60m pitches, I would probably take 8-10 screws and maybe a peg or 2 (tat obviously).

Incidentally there is an argument for having at least one of the cheaper screws in case you need to bail out on an ice-screw and can't place an abolakov for some reason. Then if you do have to abandon a screw, at least it is not a super expensive one. I sometimes carry cheap old Russian titanium ones for that purpose.

In reply to
all:

thanks for the advice everyone,

gregor

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: have 360s and bd express and dmm revolutions highly rate all of them , this deal may be of usehttp://www.v12outdoor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=69_34&products...

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Grivel 360's are fantastic, they can be a pain to rack but they are amazingly fast to place and retrieve. The BD express are great too, but if I was given the choice, I would choose the 360's.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Grivel and BD are good, but have you looked at petzl laser sonics? They have a really neat feature where the hanger is also the twisting handle, nice and big to get hands on with gloves. Also means that when taking them out you can leave the draw clipped to the screw and rope without it getting awful twisted and being a pain, so no dropped screws if you have a ham-fisted second. They go in smooth too, and arent much more expensive if any. Fantastic inovation.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I have a mix of turbo and express, the turbos are still pretty easy to place and you will not always be in extremis. If using the screws for belays, stick a an express in first, then back it up with a turbo, also if you need to retreat and lose a screw, losing a turbo will not hurt quite so much.

In reply to The New NickB:
Good to hear you like the laser sonics,i was given a few for xmas.
Heading to Norway in Feb, between the group going we have 360,s,turbos and the express.It will be intresting what comes out favorite.
Gary

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
If i remember correctly, we also found out that the grivel 360 is by far the most efficient for opening crown corks on beer bottles, however the petzl laser (non sonic version) i got for xmas looks like it may give the grivel a good run for its money

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: Grivel 360's. Ive not used the BD ones but would think that quality and sharpness are as good. Yes racking 360's isnt neat so I bought the flute that takes 5, its nice an easy to swap on the belay too.

You can get "wasters" titanium screws for abbing off that arent made to take a leader fall from american stores like REI. I dont know what they cost now but 5 years ago you could get them for a £1 each!

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: Hi Gregor. In my opinion the BD express in an excellent ice screw and worth the extra few quid ( and you can normally beat that price if you scower the net). Have used plenty of different screws over the years but found these and Petzl Sonics easiest and quickest to place with one hand.

In reply to Simon4:


Why carry a cheap one to leave behind? If you can place a screw, you can make an abaklov. If your worried it wont hold, back it up with another abakov. That way, all you leave is tat.

In reply to rusty_nails: Unless there isn't enough ice for an abalakov...

In reply to Daniel Armitage: now that would get the bum twitching, abbing from a screw that you had to tie off cos of lack of ice!

In reply to Fawksey: Never had it happen to me luckily!

Worst ever ab experience I had was abbing off two RP's hammered into a paralell sided seam after belting my hand and dropping my pegs..

I lowered our lass instead of her loading the belay ripping the anchors and both of us dying, or me having her death on my conscience...

That was the most butt puckering ab so far...

In reply to Daniel Armitage: I hate abseiling and would gladly walk off for the rest of the afternoon. I think it makes it worse doing rope access and having two ropes tied into four anchors tested to over 6kn each.

Then abbing off a frozen pebble in the ground.

In reply to sirion:

What gloves were you using? Some people hate them because they are very fiddly with thick gloves. I thought they were quite good when I tried them but I was climbing with thin softshell gloves.

In reply to Fawksey: I dingle around in trees for work. Obviously I can't test my anchors very reliably, but a piece of oak the thickness of my wrist is considerably more reassuring than a piece of cable the thickness of my eyelash...

In reply to Daniel Armitage: I always found it funny how people would question abbing off a 300 year old oak tree! Even though if you drove your car into it at 70mph youd be dead and the tree would be happily coming into leaf come the spring.

It also amazes people too the size of the "sapling" folk abb into Alum pot from

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: I use a mixture of BD turbo express and Grivel Helix. Both are very good screws, but the Helix are the best screws I've used on brittle ice on the lead. By a mile. They also feel really good and secure in your hand when trying to get them started, and IMO much better than the more expensive 360s.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
you know, you dont have to own everything in a nice neat row from one company or another.
i like a bit of a mix; mostly BD turbo expresses for regular placements, a few expresses for belays/anchors, and a few 360s which i find the best for frantic placements. ive used a few laser sonics off friends racks before, and theyre nice too - good for racey placements as you can clip the quickdraw first so your on as soon as its sunk.
apparently the BD shorty is the only one certified one out there.

the new expresses are a significant step in evolution for sure. the non-black hanger alone rates em, then the additional clip point makes me wonder why every model isnt double clippable.

i rack em with my 3 anchor specifics including one 22cm and threader (grivel - way more useful on ice than anything else, but shite as a nut key) on the left and the rest either on a bandolier or across the back. the difference between the 360s and the BDs by touch is immediate.
i like ice flutes unless its a straightforward pure icefall where you can grab almost anything off a caritool.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Has anyone tried the ones on sale at Rock and Run - the Austria Alpine ones at http://www.rockrun.com/products-Siko-Ice-Screw-21cm_CL-SI-SI21.htm? They look like decent copies of the BD ones, just loads cheaper!

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

It's all down to prersonal preference. I've got the old BD express, the new BD express, 360, Laser Sonic and have used a standard express and helix.

My fav is by far the bd turbo express, the feel easiest to start and quickest to get in. Of the others, the helix was next, far more user friendly than the 360 - much less faffy. Didn't like the laser sonic I've got, too faffy as well and it always gets twisted when trying to put it in/take it out when clipped into the rope.

In reply to galpinos:

Whereas I really like the 360s.....

In reply to galpinos:

cheers for the replies everyone, opinions duly noted...

any tips for where the best deals are just now for the BD express-es... i think i'll try my luck with them,

gregor