UKC

I use Alpine Touring gear for ski touring in Scotland and also for the yearly holiday piste skiing.

I'm thinking of changing to telemark gear when I next have to replace boot's or bindings.

Whats others opinion on whats best for touring in Scotland. Are tele boots easier to walk in?, can you parallel ski in modern plastic tele boots? is it easy to make the transition to tele? Is there any advantages or disadvantages of either system, (The boots look to be about the same weight, same skies, ot much weight difference in the bindings).

What about piste skiing, any more fun on teles?

My friends are split with some swearing by Alpine gear and others bleating on about "free your heals and your soul will follow".

I must admit i do think it looks superb when you see one who can tele turn well and i'd like to be able to do it.

In reply to KMC:

I did this very thing and never looked back. Modern tele bindings such as the 7TM Power Tour have a wee switch that means the hole binding pivots in addition to the boot flex, a bit like Diamirs. You just lock it down for down hill.

Ive had more fun on my teles but that is probably due to me enjoying learning something new, I was never great on alpine gear anyway.

I see no disadvantage on the teles for my level of skiing but if you want to do really hard stuff AT might be the way.

In reply to KMC:
I switched from downhill to tele about 10 years ago, because i wanted to tour and some friends used teles.
I have T2s, they are ok for walking in, but i've never tried ski-mountaineering kit so can't compare. I have rottefella chilli bindings and release kit, which have never failed me yet,
I parallel-turn most of the time, its as easy as with fixed heels, just a bit less secure if you wobble. It took me years to learn to telemark turn, and i still don't do it well unless on piste.
Advantages on piste are that you can move easier on flat sections and at lifts etc. Disadvantages: If you fall at speed the leashes mean you might get brained by a ski, and the same leashes are a faff for gondolas and cable cars.

In reply to KMC: You may want to consider the scarpa terminator X if it fits.
Compatable with the new NTN tele binding and dynafit for AT skis. You get the best of both worlds and if you deside tele is not for you, no worries.
http://www.scarpa.co.uk/Products/Product.asp?ProductId=95

In reply to Gen:


But don't buy the TX (or TXPro) until generation 3 is on the market... Scarpa has once again recalled all their NTN boots...


Luckily Crispi makes some good NTN booties that actually work and don't break.

And Garmont is coming out with their version.



That said, Telewankin' is STUUPID!!!

In reply to HeMa:

What say you if someone says T2X?

In reply to Donald M:

Good boot... if it fits.

Scarpas are a no-go fer me. Old Crispis fit well, new ones need a lot of work and Garmonts are kind of OK.

But I prefer somewhat bigger boots (T1/TRace) than the T2X... Good compromise though. But at least I am personally willing to suffer beefier boots on the uphill since I enjoy the downhill more... But I also ski at resorts, hence bigger boots. For solely touring, the T2x would be pretty swank.

In reply to KMC:

Unsurprisingly I would say switch to tele. Can do everything someone on alpine gear can do and more. Can take a bit of time to get your turn dialed but once you do it awesome.

In reply to HeMa:

They are the ones I have got but have no reference point for other boots. They do fit me and I dont find myself needing a lot more support, but that said, I dont know what a lot more support feels like.

Touring-wise, for Scottish stuff anyway I think they are pretty good.

In reply to telemarker:

I've telemarked since 1994, and had only done a tiny bit of alpine before that, but I'm not actually convinced this is true. Very good tele skiers can come down just about everything, but that's pro-level. A decent AT skier will be able to ski harder stuff off piste than a decent Tele skier I reckon. Doesn't mean telemark is as fun, or even more fun.


And you definitely can't climb as well in tele boots as you can in AT boots!

In reply to TobyA:

I disagree, I think 7TMs can match Fritschis no problem.

In reply to TobyA:

Ok I will rephrase what I said. I havent come across anything yet that i havent been able to tele down but everything is relative.

By more I mean with regards to skiing techniques. I can parallel, carve and telemark. I can tour and also do skating techniques (double dance, paddle dance etc).

I have been lucky enough though that I have been on nordic skiing gear since I was about 4 or so.

Taking the personal skill level out of the equation the limits come sooner on free heel kit,

BUT

with modern free heel kit the gap is pretty close. You can get ski crampons for some tele bindings and heel raisers for most, so uphill performance is pretty much the same. Skis are often the same these days; there isn't much in it weight or size wise. Tele boots are way easier to walk in.

I gave up skiing 15 years ago when I did both tele and AT, enthusiastically rather than with any degree of proficiency. I have recentky started again and have opted for tele (all new/modern kit) and I'm unlikely to reinvest in AT.

It is quite usual for skiers to have a good side and bad side when it comes to turning. I'm lucky: I can tele one way and parellel the other. Looks very odd, but works for me.

In reply to KMC: Horses for courses but as mentioned above performance is nearing parity between the two systems - but not there yet. AT still better I think on difficult ground, but for me the fun from the tele turn outweighs the downsides. As in it makes me smile, whoop, holler like a simpleton, laugh and make childish "whee" noises when pulling tele turns. I must be a right pain in the backside to ski with....

NTN sounds so good on paper, but I can't help feeling it needs another year or two to bed in (and my skis are only a couple of years old, and duckbills in too good nick to justify changing). The whole Scarpa NTN boot debacle just screams "wait!" even louder than my bank manager does. However - step in, releasable, brakes, crampons, free pivot touring mode, active flex, no duckbill - what's not to like when it all works out?

HTH

Ben B

In reply to ben b:

Thanks for the replys.

I think I'll stick to the alpine gear at the moment, but i'll probably hire some tele gear for a few days to see how it is.

I suspected that for a given ability alpine would get you down steeper ground easier but I'm always mesmirised when I see someone doing good tele turns and I imagine the fun and satisfaction of a few good linked tele turns would far surpass the satisfaction of parallel turns.

Just need to keep fingers crossed that the wind tonight dosn't blow all this fresh snow off the hills!

In reply to Donald M:

Me thinks Toby was talkin' about actually climbing, instead of skinning .

And I agree... duckbills suck for climbing. Which is why I chose the NTN and AT.

Plus Freerides are shite (<- My opinion, based on using them numerous years).

And AT makes skiing harder stuff possible. Even though I've been telewankin' (with some success from the mid to late 90s.. before that I was a knuckledragger) for quite a while, and only really alpined/ATd for a few seasons, there are numerous runs I would not go on teles unless the snow is absolutely perfect (if even then) but would gladly ski 'em with AT gear.

In reply to KMC: You've hit the nail on the head - the fun and satisfaction in good tele turns, for me, is way more than with parallels. Possibly the same step up in enjoyment that goes from snowplough to parallel as parallel to tele. And that's just my indifferent quality teleing, let alone actually being good at it!

Enjoy - hope you get some good snow

B

In reply to KMC: not sure its a logical decision but tele skiing is brilliant - switched from snow boarding a few years back as wanted to tour in scotland - never looked back! on piste and off

In reply to KMC:
I love telemark skiing. I learnt to ski that way. I have a cellar full of tele-kit. When the snow is even half decent I can tele just about any piste, and have had lots of great days off-piste in Chamonix.
But when I'm going touring in the alps I use my Randonnee set up. Toby and HeMa/Ash_Em (it is you, right?) speak the truth. And here's why.
Telemarking is hard! Relatively more so in 'difficult' snow conditions (which you aren't going to be able to avoid on a multi-day trip) And more to the point it uses way, way more energy. Rightly or wrongly, I treat ski touring like a continuation of alpinism - you want to more quickly and efficiently through the mountains. Deliberately handicapping oneself with energy sapping gear doens't seem like the best plan to me.
All that applies to the Alps. I've no idea about Scotland. Although it seems to me that Scotland is most like Norway, where everyone does just fine with fjelltur skis - although good luck turning those unless you've 'been born with skis on your feet'.

In reply to amf37:

For now...


Oh, and I don't think Toby has yet ventured on the Darkside (TM).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4729727588189988961

And for teh record, I enjoy Telewankin'... But I don't discriminate ('cept for Snowlerblades... those are ghey) ones snowsliding methods (much). And in fact, most of my touring is still done with teles. AT (and Alpine) are used when I want to ski something "interesting"... This all might change, when I finally have my quiver sorted out.

At thin point my ATs are big, stiff and freakin' heavy... Not really suited for long slogs. Good fun in pow, though.

Oh, and those that *try* to claim some sort of superiority of telewankin'... well, they've drinked too much Koolaid. I (and numerous others) enjoy both forms of sliding... Teles are fun when the terrain is less deadly and the snow is good... ATs really shine, when you are really, really scared and the conditions are bad.