UKC

Hi, looking at heading over that way next summer. Looking to find out what the current situation is regarding permits for some of the more contested areas. I know people have been refused into certain valleys even with permits in the past, is this a regular occurence?


also, if you have experience of the area and wouldn't mind being grilled, send me an email

Any info much apperciated.
luke

In reply to luketheape:

Its quite in the North. I was there this summer and I will go back next summer. I have Zero concern right now but you need to wait and see. Its much more a media event than an issue for a visiting expedition.

On the permit side no issues as far as I know. Go with a big operator like ATP or Nazir Sabir and you build in much safety if shit hits the fan and you need to get out. They have big operations and pulling power.

Stay a way from stupid things like walking around in big groups and in shorts etc. Keep a low profile. Its all about common sense.

In reply to luketheape:

the northern areas are fine.

possibly the refusals youve heard of in the past have been more towards chitral and swat in the NWFP, bordering nuristan and the hindu kush. mind you, theres several types of permits so hard to say.
permits are more available now than ever almost, in an attempt to attract climbers back.
really good time to go.
remember theres no climbing permit at all for stuff under 6000m and theres a lifetimes worth of that.

as said above: long pants, and sleeves away from the capitals. be sensitive with photos, polite with older people, smart about the conditions.
do your research: pakistan is a complex and multi-layered place. despite all the media frenzy life goes on and the people remain warm, generous, genuine and aware. the more you learn about the place the better.
if youve climbed in nepal, tibet or india expect a significant difference.

In reply:

- no permit at all for peaks under 6500m now
- no LO at all in areas outside the Baltoro BUT they may insist for some border peaks (eg. Karun Koh)
- big peaks at bargain prices
- Chogolisa, Baltoro Kangri, K12, Link Sar etc permits hard as they're on the frontier with Siachen war

Political/terrorist danger in north (Hunza, Gojal, Baltistan) is not the problem. The problems are:
a) getting unlucky in Islamabad with an explosion/riot etc
b) the area just north of Islamabad and up to Chilas etc en route to Gilgit or Skardu. the KKH here goes through some very dodgy areas.
c) possible disruptions caused by people escaping other areas. ie. Swat, Chitral and arriving in Gilgit or other towns
d) Khunjerab Pass border escape blocked by Chinese due to problems in Xinjiang (this happened last year)

D

In reply to Damo:

GREAT post

In reply to luketheape: i have just spent 2 weeks in pakistan (northern areas and islamabad) with people from the british embassy (so up to date security advice). Let me know if you want info on what its like

In reply to thomaspassmore:

Can you share? Looks a bit shaky at the moment but sure its fine in the North according to what I hear but any info is great.

In reply to luketheape:
sure

The advice we got from the security section is more strict than the foreign office advice.
Atm - Northern Areas (ie karakoram) - no apparent danger from terrorists. The Muslims up there are more liberal and havent been affected by extremism. The danger is the odd bit of sectarian violence on the highway outside of Gilgit. We were advised to try and not hang around central gilgit and certainly avoid the bazaar. Otherwise they had no issues. Our experience in the North certainly confirmed this. Everyone we met was really friendly, hospitable and generous. We felt totally safe.

You need to stay clear of Peshawar and anywhere west of Islamabad. The advice we were given for Islamabad was to avoid markets at busy times. Avoid big hotels (ie Serena, marriot). Avoid country clubs where rich people go (ie Islamabad Club). Aboid any symbols of the west (eg KFC or MacDonals). Avoid any military post or police headquarters. I think restaurants are touch and go - you should avoid sitting around anywhere for too long. Other than that I felt pretty safe in Islamabad. There are so many police checkpoints and everyone is so nice. It really is a minority of people spreading fear.

To conclude though:
Northern Areas - no problems
Islamabad - remember the advice my sister gets working out there is more strict than tourists get. So this paints a strict picture.
I would avoid most other places in Pakistan. I think Lahore is a possibility for a couple of days.
At the moment tourists and foreigners aren't a target of bombing. The danger is from being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As a caveat, this is just what I heard. I cant guarantee everything will be ok. Also, this advice could change at any time. At the moment I would feel completely happy going back out for another couple of weeks to the northern areas spending a couple of days in Islamabad.

If you want more up to date information in the future, drop me a line and I can let you know the latest security advice.

Sorry to ramble incoherantly

Tom

ps. I would fly up to the northern areas. There have been quite a few problems with bandits on the road to the north of Islamabad. This means you have to build in a 2-3 day buffer at the end of your trip as flights only operate on a clear day but it is worth it - the KKH is being rebuilt so is really bumpy and the trip is about 20h atm.
Also no armed bandits on the plane

In reply to thomaspassmore:

Hmm, I'm booked into the Marriot in Karachi for a fortnight week after next

In reply to thomaspassmore:

It all corresponds to my experience from May to July 09. Lets hope it stay the same way

In reply to kevin stephens: I'm in Islamabad now working (journalism) and staying in a small guest house. It feels more relaxed than the Marriott where I was in June and did feel uneasy. I don't know about Karachi - there haven't been attacks there recently but of course that could change. I think there was an attack near the Marriott there about 2002.

I would give it some thought. There are some very nice guest houses in Pakistan that are very friendly and (as this post proves) have good fast internet. Tripadvisor will tell you more.