UKC

As the title says. I am after a new stove for winter and possibly exped use. Ive looked at loads ie MSR Dragonfly,XGK,Jetboil Helios, Edelrid hexane.
What are peoples experiences of these. I have a Jetboil, but am after something for more people.
Thanks

In reply to droites:

Also there's the Primus Omnifuel and the Optimus Nova.

I've an XGK, and so far am happy with it. Hard to get it to do much in between 'off' and 'afterburn', but if it's mostly for melting snow/boiling water that doesn't much matter

In reply to droites:

I've used loads of XGKs over the years, as above, good for snowmelt and boil, nothing fancy. Didn't like Dragonfly. MSR have advantage on expeditions as popularity means availability of spares. For my own private use I mostly use a Primus Multifuel. It has a steel pump (not that I've ever busted an MSR plastic one) and it also takes canisters, which is useful for expeditions where the kero may be crap and no whitegas is available. It also has better, stronger, more stable pot supports than the old XGK. Not tried the new XGK.

In reply to droites: have heard very good things about the edelrid hexon,
means you only need to put up with the dirt/cleaning, flaring, leaking of liquid fuels when you need to.

In reply to droites:

I must say I'm a bit of a primus omnifuel advocate. It will run on everything from diesel to canistered gas and everything in between. It's simple, and I've found it to be reliable in aboout 5 years of use. I would say that it's major advantages over its MSR rivals (I don't know the others well enought to comment) are:

1. metal pump, which is generally much more reliable than the plastic msr ones
2. a valve on the fuel bottle and a valve on the stove which means that you can create a reasonable approximation to a simmer, (it's not perfect, but it's defintely not off or on)
3. The two valves also mean you can burn all the fuel in the fuel line when you turn it off (if you wish), so you don't drip the last drops of petrol into your sack when you put it away
4. Longer fuel line than the XGK and whisperlite
5. Ability to run on all the usual liquids (petrol, diesel, whitegas, kerosene etc.) as well as normal cartridge gas.

I think for winter and exped, any decent, multifuel, liquid stove will do, it's just the details which make one a bit better than another.

Tim

In reply to droites:

been a fan of xgks because you can run them on anything. paired with a primus pot with a built in flux ring they are powerful stuff.

all depends what you really do tho: exped and winter have very different specs.

for exped, as you will already be spending big its better to have a dedicated bc stove like a whisperlite, then a mountain stove like a reactor or jetboil.

the reactor/jetboil would also be your winter stove.

depends too on the expedition. you wont want to haul and mess about with an xgk in a tiny tent at camp 4, but if its sledding across greenland its the better option.

an option may be to just get a helios pot for your existing jet boil for winter, then something like a whisperlight/dragonfly etc for exped.

In reply to Green Porridge:


I've had the same MSR Whisperlite Internationale with it's original plastic pump for 19 years, and put many many gallons of all sorts through it, ranging from simple coleman fuel to a bottle of awful Pakistani aftershave blended with helicopter fuel and warmed up goose fat.

I once worried about the pump drying out and cracking -- but so far it's outlived one pair of Koflachs and another pair of Asolo plastic boots of similar age which fell to bits long ago.

MSR = fantastic quality (at least their production 20 years ago was).

In reply to chopin-smith:

sounds like you robbed a baltoro military outpost.

howd the aftershave/helifuel/fat mix go?

In reply to chopin-smith:

I'm perfectly happy to admit that my evidence is purely anecdotal. However, I can think of at least three people I know who've had an MSR pump fail on them, and no-one who'se had a metal primus pump fail on them. These were all probably a lot younger stoves than yours, though.

Tim

In reply to Green Porridge:

I don't agree with all of your comparisons of MSRs and Primus:


I broke two MSR pumps, but a couple of years ago they started producing a new design made from a less brittle plastic which has been a lot lot better. Not as strong as the Primus one, sure, but probably lighter.


Dragonfly has this, except it IS a perfect simmer.


Dragonfly has this.

In addition, I found the Omnifuel flared a lot more when lighting. This was a significant issue when cooking inside tents. Those of us using MSRs just lit them inside whereas Primus users had to open the door and do it outside before bringing the stove back in for cooking.

In reply to Flashy:

I duly defer to your apparently better knowledge of both. As I said, I've certainly been happy with mine, and it wouldn't surprise me if MSR had done something wwith their pumps, as they were a bit notorious.

As to the point about the omnifuel flaring - I've never had it *too* bad, and I don't know the dragonfly well enough, but I certainly like the little priming cup under the whisperlite, it makes it really easy to see just how much fuel you're using for priming, whereas with the omnifuel it's a bit of a black art. Having said that though, it would take some seriously nasty weather to make me consider using any petrol stove on petrol, inside a tent - they stink!

Tim

In reply to droites: A vote for the Optimus Nova- fantastic but perhaps less common stove. Mine has proved indestructible these past few years.

In reply to Green Porridge:

I was going to say this too, but assumed everyone would disagree and just say it was my mates and me being incompetent. Learning to get it to light and stay lit is a steeper learning curve than with MSRs which are are much simpler it seems.


It WAS seriously nasty weather, for days on end. It was fine with vents open though, so much so that some of us took to cooking inside whenever the weather was faintly inclement.

In reply to Flashy:


Haha - that's the normal kind of response - "I own this bit of gear AND IT HAS NO FAULTS". To be honest, I'm happy I've got the omnifuel cracked now, I'd light it in the porch of my 2 man tent and not worry at all about burning it down (but take it quickly out before it robs the interior of any kind of breathable gasses..) but I have lit it hundreds of times. I think if you bought a stove and took it straight on a trip, the whisperlite might be easier to judge in that respect than the omnifuel (I don't know the dragonfly well enough to comment).

Tim

In reply to ice.solo:

Close... the bizarre fuel mix was procured near the Pak side of the top of the Wakhan... It worked with the kerosene jet - awful sputtering/flaring and smell though and the whole thing clogged up because of the fat when it got cold afterwards.

I was always paranoid that the MSR pump would give up, especially morning pumping with the plastic cooled to -30C, and I'm amazed it is still going. If on an expedition though I'd certainly take a spare.

In reply to chopin-smith:

Close... the bizarre fuel mix was procured near the Pak side of the top of the Wakhan....

up near the chupersan or mintaka by any chance? i know the region well. conditions are not good up there these days, be lucky to run a stove off smuggled aftershave.

In reply to ice.solo:
the chupersan or mintaka by any chance? i know the region well. conditions are not good up there these days,

you mean security-wise? i'd appreciate a pm if you have any specifics. i was up the chapursan in july 2001 and thinking about going there again soon.

In reply to Damo: ANy coments on the Primus Omnifuel. Can they be used with MSR bottles. Is there a similar problem with flaring on both the multi and omni?
Thanks

In reply to droites:

See my comments on the omnifuel.... I belive that the msr bottles can only be used with msr stoves - the primus ones are sigg shaped, but you can't use a sigg drinking bottle due to internal coatings etc.

As for flaring - I wouldn't say it's a problem, really. As I said, I'd happily light mine in the porch of my two man tent, which is abut 5cm too low to sit inside, but I do know it pretty well.

Tim

In reply to droites:

I've only ever used MSR bottles with my Primus, no problems. Supposedly, the issue is, or was, that certain bottles were two-piece, the thread in the neck was a separate piece to the rest of the bottle, and thus could detach or leak under pressure. I haven't looked into it lately, but I think this was an issue years ago, with older bottles, and is probably irrelevant now.

The metal legs/supports on the Primus certainly were more stable and felt a lot safer than the jangly old XGKs with their narrow wire supports, but I've not tried the new XGK design. And I must say that in the last decade I've probably cooked a year or more of my meals (in accumulated nights) on an XGK, as I used them exclusively in Antarctica.

With the Primus I almost always cook inside the tent vestibule and flaring has never been a problem, no more so than any MSR. Any flaring of such type is pretty harmless, though it can look terrifying. It can lick the tent wall once or twice and have no effect at all, as bad as this sounds.

The worst stove incidents I've had were where the pump either cracked or leaked and caught fire. This happened (or we think that's what happened) en route to the South Pole in Dec 2000 and the whole pump melted.
You can briefly see it at 00:46 in this video: youtube.com/watch?v=W3yqKhLE7NE&

I bought one of the early Dragonfly stoves (1998?). Took it straight to Yunnan and dirty kero kept clogging the screw in the flame adjuster. Needed daily cleaning, so it's never been used since.

In reply to Damo:

Hey Damo could you send me an email? I have a question for you better handled off line if you don't mind. Thanks,
Dane

In reply to droites:

Yes, the Primus Omnifuel can take MSR bottles and the flares are similar to the Primus Multifuel.
Flares are no problem, though. Just hand hold a pan over them to protect the tent.

And now my current expedition stove conglomerate:
Windscreen, pots and pans: Trangia 25
Burner: A Primus Multifuel burner unit stripped for legs and burner cup. Then mounted with the adaptor and burner cup of a Trangia Mulitfuel burner (which in turn is custom made for Trangia by Optimus from their Nova burner).
The Primus Multifuel ErgoPump mounts both MSR like bottles and screw on gas canister.
- It's loud and heavy, but reliable and burns anything flammable like gas, petrol, kerosene, diesel and olive oil. The latter is a mess
- For many years I used the MSR Whisperlite International inside the Trangia. It was retired when the rubber hose was worn (!) It was oh so silent, but only burned petrol and kerosene.
- My favorite fuel is purified petrol, though. It's easy to prime and is almost as energy dense as kerosene.

And my lightweight kit:
Pot: MSR Titanium Kettle (holds a gas canister)
Burner: Optimus Crux
- It's really compact and light weight and easy to use.

I always use gas ligters - they are easy to keep dry and warm in an inner pocket. For safety I carry a magnesium stick too, but have never used it.

Cheers

In reply to Damo:


I was up near the mintaka/kilik passes, then walked down to the Boroghil pass, but that was back in 1992 -- the good old days when you could travel pretty much anywhere in Pakistan (except perhaps Chilas, where they were never that friendly!) without any hassle. Even Waziristan was fine.