UKC

I am 16 years old and my dream job would be to be a mountain guide in say the Alps. I intend on going to University first and getting a degree in something, as you need to be 22 to apply to be a British Mountain Guide (BMG). Once you are a Member of the BMG, you are part of the international guiding association, and can guide.

However, to apply to take part in the 3 year course to become a BMG guide, the pre-requirements need to be met, and as a 16 year old they seem very daunting.

As a rock climber I feel I could easily meet the rock climbing requirements. However the following requirements are daunting, and as a 16 year old seem almost out of reach...

- Provide a list of at least fifty snow, mixed and ice climbs. Over 35 of these should be in the Scottish mountains of Grade III and above in a variety of areas and must include a minimum of twenty at Grade V or above. 
-Evidence of 20 European summits.
-List all mountaineering routes in the Alps.Include a minimum of twenty big routes, at least ten of which should be Alpine très difficle (TD) standard or above. Five should be mixed routes of a serious and committing nature and be at least 800 metres in length (i.e. classic North Faces or similar).
-30 days of Ski Mountaineering experience

So how on earth does a 16 year old rock climber from the Peak District get into all of this?

Sorry for the long post, any help will be most gratefully appreciated.

Thanks.... Oli

In reply to oliverg: You are still a little young but the best route for someone of your age and lack of experience is probably via the ML/SPA/MIA route. These people can advise you: http://www.mlte.org/ but it's a long haul and likely to cost you several thousand pounds unless you can get yourself into some centre that would sponsor you whilst you do other work.

Al

In reply to oliverg:

Admiration is due for having ambition. Hopefully your passion for climbing is a driving force for you to succeed, and I wish you luck.

First, ask yourself the following: "If you were to pay for a mountain guide, what qualities would he/she have?" - You will then know what to do.

Secondly... make sure you keep enjoying what you do!

Keep those things in mind, and you'll get there.

Iain

In reply to oliverg:

Do as much climbing as possible. Obvious, but true. Get your parents (or friends) to take you to Scotland and the Alps if they're climbers, if not then try and do some courses until you've got some idea how to look after yourself in the mountains. Can you ski? If not start learning as soon as possible and find other people who are keen to ski tour. In my experience people who want to be guides often team up with other people who are thinking of doing the same thing so they get the right sort of routes and skiing done, it's obviously no use going bouldering all the time. University seems to be a very useful time for getting lots of good climbing done, so make the most of it, but if you start at uni with some experience in the bag already, you'll be well ahead.

Good luck. I didn't make it, but had a brilliant time trying!

In reply to oliverg: First learn to be a mountaineer, not a crag rat

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

I'd have to disagree with Al, if you definitely want to be a guide ( and work in the alps), then I'd aim straight for that rather than the MIA/MIC route, but I'm sure lots of people will disagree!

In reply to oliverg:

Great to hear you have a 'destination' to work towards.

Make sure you enjoy the journey, the 'BMG destination' is only one pause in a much longer journey.

What I mean by that is that the preperation to becoming a BMG must be as enjoyable as the achievement and the resulting job.

Consider what you really, really want your life to include? Imagine your family and friends gathering to remember you after your death, what do they say about you, what is thier best memories of you, who are your friends, do you have a family?

Does the BMG rest easly with those other ambitions? Being a Guide is a small part of a much bigger life. Talk to guides about relationships, family, sense of climbing outside work and what it really means to be a guide, the job may be very different to what it seems like from the outside.

Its great to have a destination, but make sure your are flexable on how you get there, all journey plans change to grab oppourtunities and solve problems. Make plans for destination away from being a guide and beyond that point.

Mmmmm all sounds a bit vague but it is based on observing and working with guides, MIC's and other related species, some are very happy, some are very sad and I suspect it has nothing to do with a metal badge they wear to work and more to do with things outside work and their attitude.

Summary:

Chill, make sure you enjoy the journed and have a balance to things outside mountians and guiding.

In reply to oliverg:
I can understand that these requirements sound daunting – They do to me and I’m 26!!

BUT you have 6 years, youth and the ability to lead E5 …So that shows strong body/mind and even though you aren’t asking about Trad this could definitely help you along with the head games in leading Ice,Alpine etc…

Being a student means (admittedly with a lot of saving up) you can spend your summer holidays in the Alps with like minded people building up summits and your winters in Scotland building experience and/or ski mountaineering.

With time and effort if you want this goal enough I’m sure you can achieve it; but there is no rush – If it takes more than 6 years to complete the tick list then so be it…

It would be worth going on a course to learn basic but very important safety for winter,alpine etc and also if you can seek a strong experienced partner/mentor then that would be a huge benefit.

Most of all – It’s great to have a goal like this and I’m sure you’ll have a blast training, learning, exploring and trying new climbing disciplines.

Plus you know this already but ‘momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime’..Of course this applies with all climbing you do but the Alps can be very unforgiving.

Katie

In reply to tobykeep:

I agree with Toby's advice. (How are you Toby? Have you finished the house yet?)
I would also add that the amount of climbing and skiing that is required is not really all that high at all. If you like mountaineeing/ alpinism / climbing etc it is very easy to get the experience and after a few years you may realize that you have it and more just by going to cool places and having very cool adventures with your friends.
The problem that you will have though is meeting like minded people to do these things with. University can be a good place but i get the impression that they may soon be different places to when old fogies like Toby and myself were there on full grants and no fees. Finding a good club could be the answer and being a hanger on at uni clubs could be an idea.
One very sincere piece of advice i would offer though is do it all earlier rather than later before wive's, children, mortgages (and house building come along).
Just one final note to ponder on is think about your motivation for wanting to do it; if you are wanting to spend more time in the mountains and get lots of climbing done there are other paths to achieving this. One of my climbing partners works 5 weeks on and 5 off in the oil industry and earns more money than he can actually spend (e.g. car breaks down in the NW, calls a taxi on phone gets dropped off at the Audi garage in Inverness and buys a brand new car so he doesn't loose a day climbing as the conditions were very good). He goes on an expedition every 5 weeks some times and has at last count well over 20 routes at '1000m TD and above'. And when his knees go he can buy a yatch and retire. He doesn't get a discount on the Aonach Mor chairlift though so it's not all milk and honey.
James e

In reply to oliverg:
Oli - aim to become a 'mountaineer'. Just because you want to.

Then a guide.

In reply to tobykeep: You could be right. Going directly via the guides route is probably a good idea if you have loads of experience. It would have been better for me when I looked into this but for a 16 year old with limited experience I'm not sure. At his age could he not get a head start which will stand him in good stead before he is old enough to even think about the guides route.

Al

In reply to andyathome: I am very keen to get involved in the more adventurous sides of climbing, therefore Mountaineering, and I guess this is my goal. But again it seems so hard to get away from "Crag rat" and do this. My parents are not climbers, and it would feel cheeky asking people to take me away to the Alps.

I guess I just need to wait till I am independant enough to plan long holidays to Mountainous regions, and begin to climb longer more adventurous routes.

Thanks for the advice everyone...

In reply to oliverg:

If you are planning on going to Uni, go to a Scottish one. First, there are no fees and secondly, you are close to the real mountains so can learn to ice and mixed climb whilst getting your degree.

I'd recommend Glasgow Uni, fantastic city, strong university, and basically all the cool people go there!

In reply to TobyA:

As the OP is English, or at least currently based in Sheffield, I think he would still have to pay in Scotland, although your other reasoning is sound.

In reply to TobyA:

There are if you are English as far as I am aware.

Al

In reply to oliverg:

Have you thought about a Scottish uni? It would make it more feasible to get your winter prerequisite days if you were local.

On the other hand the uni's in the south east are just as close to the alps. Either way I'd echo others advice. Do it if you're keen and see the journey as an apprenticeship. And start saving.

In reply to The New NickB: Is that right? At least a few years back you didn't have to. So how long do you have to be a resident in Scotland before you qualify for no fees?

It's still free if he can get into a Finnish university! Although there aren't many (well, any) mountains.

In reply to TobyA:

if you/your parents live in Scotland at the time of application


because you can only learn to climb ice and mixed in scotland? WTF


Glasgow is a trek to any decent ice, mixed or decent trad venue.

In reply to jonnylowes:


Well it's a bit more useful than Exeter isn't it?


How many other British cities are there where you can get a bus for an hour and be at the start of the walk-in for good winter climbing? We never had a car whilst living there but winter climbed most winter weekends and sometimes midweek as well.

In reply to jonnylowes: "if you/your parents live in Scotland at the time of application"

err...no, not quite, you have to have had your last three years of high school at a Scottish establishment before qualifying for the free university tuition.

If Scotland gets independence and EU membership then English applicants will then get the free education here.

In reply to oliverg:

Carefull you don't overtrain in your enthusiasm, I wanted to be a mountain guide at 16 and at 31 I have niggly elbows, they are now a little less niggly but it's still worth avoiding if you can.

Also a more gradual upward trend in your standard with lots of days out climbing and mountianeering would possibly make you a more experienced and safer climber than a steeper one to reach the same grades would do.

Enjoy the journey.

Tim

In reply to TobyA:
]

Aberdeen ?

To the OP - I never wanted to be a guide but by the time I'd finished being a student would have had a fair part of 'pre qualifications' just from getting out climbing & skiing (but I did study at 2 Scottish universities which makes getting the winter experience a lot easier)

In reply to oliverg:

So I guess the first step is to start winter mountaineering in Britain if you've not already? Getting all the navigation, looking after yourself in bad weather, avalanche etc stuff for winter walking means that when you go for a winter climb you'll be able to get yourself to and from the climb safely. Also you'll acquire many of the crampon and axe skills that are needed to climb Alpine routes.

There's about 3 ways into it; find a mate, get a book, get some old gear and start or get someone more experienced to take you out or go on a course in Scotland during Christmas or Feb half term holidays.

In reply to MattG: If he hasn't at least some experience of snow/ice & mountains how can he know he wants to be a guide rather than a rock climbing instructor ?

In reply to Doug: That is a good question, but I knew I wanted to do winter climbing and alpine climbing before I had done either. I also knew I'd enjoy them the most too, and I was right.

In reply to MattG: Those courses look good but set you back almost £400 for the two days which are advised...

In reply to oliverg:


Start with this one, it'll be easy for you.


Don't be too bothered about this one. If you do the one after this one you'll probably have the summits. too.


Then routes of TD, takes about 2 months in the Alps. Five North Faces of 800+, takes about 1 month more. Ten easier ones add one month more. All in all you'll have to be fit and then you need to spend about three seasons in the Alps. This will do it. Start with the easier ones and then progress to the harder stuff. This way you'll learn to read the conditions and other stuff.


You can do some of this in Scotland probably. Takes about 2 months to get this experience.


Should be doable in three years. But you're not in a hurry.

In reply to oliverg: True about the cost, sometimes there are subsidised courses for younger climbers; I've no idea what the age criteria are for a conville course in the alps but they are set up to show young climbers alpine basics at a much cheaper rate than PYB courses, might be worth a look for next summer?

Can you find a mate or mate's parent or whatever who could show you some winter stuff?

In reply to oliverg:

What's so daunting? You've got loads of time. Go to the Alps, and go to Scotland in winter. If you don't like (or can't do) winter stuff, then your dream needs to be modified. But I bet you will like it, and will be able to do it.

In reply to oliverg:

I was thinking that perhaps the content of your university degree could be worth focussing on more than how close your university is to places to go climbing.

It might mean you take a bit longer to qualify as a mountain guide, but as an extra string to your bow, it could end up making the degree more valuable.

If you're going to go to university you might as well do it properly is my thinking.

Cheers
Tim

Thanks everyone for the advice it is much appreciated. For me now the goal is too get as many visits to the Alps and Scottland as I can under my belt and get into the more adventurous aspects of the climbing world.

Oli

In reply to oliverg: I'm 16 too and interested in getting some Scottish Winter and Alpine experience, if you want to get out climbing, send me an email.

In reply to oliverg:

Good luck and be safe out there. Start with the easier stuff even if you would be technically competent for harder stuff.

Alpine climbing is not about the grades if you want to be a guide. It's much more about making good decisions than any other type of climbing. Try to work the ropes, try short roping, try leading in blocks. Get out as much as you can and you'll reading the conditions right and finding the easiest route. On the mountains an exposed ridge graded AD can be as much fun as anything graded TD. The only way of learning it is by doing it.

If you want to read something I'd suggest you read something like My Life by Anderl Heckmair or Total Alpinism by Rene Desmaison. In my opinion, the autobiographies teach you much more about risk management than any of the how-to-guides.

In reply to oliverg: I've not read your thread in its entirety so I don't know if this has already been said; if so I apologize.

You are still very young - and I'm not saying that patronizingly. Get out in the mountains with some oldies, we have a lot to offer in terms of passing on experience. We can also be quite fun in the pub at the end of the day ;0)

You mention Scotland and the Alps. Are you restricting yourself to those areas? If so, why? Don't forget different mountain ranges all have there own characteristics. The Pyrenees is a great area and the High Atlas of Morocco aren't that far away.

Best wishes from an Old Fart.

In reply to mypyrex: Not restricting myself no, but these to me just seemed like obvious starting places...

Also I don't really have any oldies to go out with.

Oli

In reply to oliverg:

I'm not a club person myself but you might consider joining one. They're often a good source of experience.

In reply to oliverg:

I'd just get out there and get a decent amount of climbing in. Things often seem daunting when you're younger. But keep your eye on the goal and I'm sure by the time you're old enough to start the BMG training you'll have the relevant experience.

In reply to oliverg: What are you going to do at uni? if you are really going to be a guide you don`t need a degree, just because everyone else is going to uni doesn`t mean you have to, wouldn`t the money be better spent on getting to Cham, making friends with the right people over there, tagging along with guided groups, doing their washing, cleaning the kit, cooking for them instead of pissing hundreds up the wall and paying huge uni fees. That way you will get plenty of mountain time...

In reply to oliverg: If you do go down the ML/WML/SPA/MIA/MIC/IML route one major advantage is you can make some money through those qualifications whilst you build the experience and skills you'll need to qualify as a full Alpine guide.
As well as good personal climbing skills guides need to be good with people, enjoy teaching and have considerable patience to work with punters with comparatively limited skills. Remember when you are working as a guide you will rarely (if ever) be tackling climbing that you find challenging personally.

In reply to oliverg:

I have heard from a British guide that there are not very many aspirants coming through the system, plenty doing SPA & ML but not many going all the way to being a full guide. This could mean that as long as you satisfy the technical requirements there is scope for reasonable employment prospects.

Some things I would think about:

- do I want to make my hobby my job?
- do I want to spend a lot of time and money becoming good at skiing?
- would I want to spend a large part of the year working outside of the UK?
- can I accept being responsible for the lives of myself and my clients for 8 hrs plus a day, week in week out?

It takes a special person who can answer yes to these (and other) questions. Keep in mind not everybody becomes a guide at 22, a lot of the ones I know have come to it a bit later in life, spending time building up a decent skill set and perhaps a career in another field.

In reply to Timmd:

But he want's to be a mountain guide?

I went to Uni because it was the thing to do. Ended up with a totally useless degree. You sound like my mum and dad Tim and you're only 31.

E

In reply to oliverg: Try a BMC Course. I did one when I was sixteen - two weeks and a bit expensive but it will teach you everything you need to know about climbing in the Alps so you can start learning for yourself. I did my first north face (Matterhorn) three years later. It will also allow you to watch guides at work. I have not missed a season since! Of course, you should establish why you want to do this. If it is to climb more and be paid for it, then that is fine but you will no longer be climbing for yourself - you will be providing a rewarding and educational experience for people like I was when I was sixteen! Good luck. It is worthwhile.

In reply to Morgan Woods:


The other way of looking at this is that it doesn't have to be full time work. Also, many guides work through their degree but not guiding. You'll have mountain rescue, for example.


Ski touring is more like what is needed for guiding. It's super fun and I wouldn't say it's expensive at all.


You can always come back if you start graving for the UK for some reason.


As long you're normally sane and work in normal ways it's more like hanging outdoors and socialising. Most of the work is risk control. Being a guide is mostly about knowing where to go and when not to go. But the thing is that you need to be able to enjoy meeting new people and having the chit-chat.

In reply to oliverg: Hey, Also doing much the same as you are planning.

Just about to start my 3rd year of uni studying a BA in Outdoor Education which is vaguely relevant to guiding, but also based in the lakes so plenty of opportunity for rock climbing and winter stuff.

the requirements arent "That" hard for a committed climber (if you aren't then BMG isn't for you!)

I only got into the alpine and winter stuff when i was 18/19 years old, and i'm now 21 and just coming into the grade requirements and beginning to log suitable climbs in the alps and scotland.

Stick with it and climb hard, if you dont give up then you'll get it for sure, get out to the alps ASAP and get talking to guides and experienced climbers, you'll be shocked at how friendly and helpful people can be, 5 mins chatting on a bin at 6:30 am can get you valuable climbing partners or telephone numbers, the more contacts you have the better.

Good luck !

Pete.

In reply to Petarghh:


I'll second this. I wouldn't think courses as good a place to meet future climbing partners is you want to climb TD. The people you want to meet are in the first (or the last) cabin up in Chamonix. If you'll hang out in weird places long enough you'll know all the "rock stars" soon enough. Most of the people in the magazines are actually very nice and helpful people.

In reply to oliverg: The age limits is for a reason, its an apprentiship( cant spell for toffee) I would see it as a survival game. Choose your routes and partners careful. Know when to turn around. Dont we to ambitious in the alps the first season or two. Get a few scottish winter seasons under your belt, then lower alps, before the big alpine areas. Do your research and dont be afraid to pay for some comfort / insurance by having a guide / instructor. Remember the motto 'Climb if you will, but remember, strength and bravery are nowt without prudence' Some may accuse me of being cautious, but Im into health and safety now

In reply to JonCork:
another really important aspect of leading and guiding is inter-personal skills so it is probably a good idea to try and get experience in handling people/offering 'advice' in potentially difficult situations.

In reply to oliverg: Hey Oli. Great post - and you've had a lot of good replies there (plenty from folks who know exactly what it takes - as they have been through it themselves). Just remember that all these pre-requisites are a mechanism to make sure you have enough depth and breadth of experience - and gaining all that climbing experience is going to be more rewarding than daunting!
Very few of us were ready, or able, to apply before we were into our thirties, so you have a healthy head start there. If you really want to be a Guide, then you need to have a true passion for the mountains - and enjoy sharing that passion with others. Hence the most important thing for you to do is go climbing (and skiing) and enjoy building up that depth and breadth with a load of good folks - it all counts. Don't get drawn in to 'ticking' routes for an application (that'll take care of itself) and heed James Edwards' reply on cashing in on your youthful lack of commitments.
Then, when you have a wealth of precious experiences and a true passion for the hills, then you may enjoy the privilege that is a career in Guiding. Best of luck, and get in touch if I can help further. Martin C

In reply to oliverg:
In terms of going to university first and which one; I would say looking at your brief logbook you wont struggle to rack up plenty of rock ticks in your lifetime; so maybe consider going to an area where you can start doing scottish/alpine stuff. As on a personal level I have never struggled to go rock climbing at an english uni(Im at leeds); however when it comes to scottish winter its another story. A car of 4 costs minimum at current petrol costs usually £25 each in a car of 4 sharing for a weekend of scottish winter climbing. In contrast I have mates at edinburgh who can go winter climbing for £4 each on petrol and only for a day trip. Imagine how jealous this makes me when I have no money in my bank account and the mountains are snowed up. So even though you have to do an extra year at a scottish university I would give it some serious thought; perhaps consider doing a year abroad in france or canada for one of your years. Assuming you can speak the lingo then give some serious though to going to a foreign uni for the whole period too. I have a friend who did this and really enjoyed it. Not sure if its's everyones thing though....
All the best
Ewan

In reply to oliverg: If you really want to go to uni why restrict yourself to the UK? As an EU citizen going to another country (except Scotland for you) you enjoy the same rights as people from that country.

Have a look at Austrian, Swiss, German, Italian, Slovenian, (any alpine country) universities. Many of the courses are actually taught in English (to get international appeal) and the fees are often much lower than English unis will be. Then instead of a few hours drive to Fort William you have a few hours drive to, oh, loads of places in the Alps.

Are you interested in rocks? Doing a Geological degree in a university with some alpine specialist profs mean that during the course of your degree you may be *forced* to go to into the Alps to study the rock or glacial formations.

In reply to Foggles:


This is a very good point. If you live in Switzerland, for example, you go for Chamonix for the weekend and for your actual holiday you can go on a real expedition somewhere further away.

Also I wouldn't underestimate the importance of language skills in any field of study you ever choose. While studying in French of German university you'll learn the language. The languages I have needed or would have needed in my climbing life so far are in order of importance:

1. English
2. Spanish (Spanish people don't speak English, especially outside Europe.)
3. French
4. German

In reply to Enty:
agreed, im at uni at the moment, doing mech eng, its a good course but if your like me you will HATE it if you can't get out and do your hobbies. I'm in Swansea, mainly because of the climbing surfing and downhill mtb around there, and it helps me concentrate on work if i can get out and do my hobbies when i start to get the craving.. and then of course its not too hard to head over to scotland, snowdonia or the alps. the only thing i would say is that if you dont care at all for the course you are doing there is a high chance you won't make it through the course and the fact you tried and failed at uni will be more of a turn off for employers than getting the degree would have helped you. it is also perfectly possible to get enough cash and get out to the alps while in uni.. im out here at the moment and its awesome. Anyways good luck!!

In reply to TobyA:

Go for it Toby. If you cant get on the mountain guides scheme til your 22 then you may as well start from the bottom by doing SPA etc. Will at least give an idea of what it is all about.

If going to Uni I can totally recommend Stirling University. Only 90mins from Glencoe, 2hrs from Aviemore. A quality climbing club and excellent snowsports club (so you can get your skiing in).
Climbing only 5mins away in the Cambusbarron quarries.

Aim to get a driving licence asap as well. The freedom and ability to get to your preferred destination as opposed to just where everyone else is going is brilliant.

Enjoy the journey ahead!

In reply to TobyA:

The youth of today and their need for roadside climbing Toby!

In reply to dan:

Well said Dan ,my mates youngest has just finished uni and is now qualified in latin american politics (very useful as he is now living near to chester),has run up over 20K in debt and is currently unemployed..good idea would be to stop spending your parents and other peoples money,work a ticket to chamonix and take a chance in life.if it doesnt work out you can go to "uni" later.
This generation are brain washed into thinking that "uni" is the way forward.Its all a scam by this and other governments to get youngsters off the unemployment list ....utter bollox.
Oliver good on you for having an idea of what you want out of life ,not many people of your age have any idea..you'll do well.good luck.

In reply to colina:

I completely agree. It's never too late to go back to uni for academic reasons if you want to go for the 3 years of parties that's a different matter.

Get a job that finishes as ealry in the day as possible (so you can get out climbing whilst in the UK) and save some pennies for spending summer season in the Alps. Come home if you still like it spend the winter in Scotland and crack on. Aviemore is great for easy access to a wealth of winter routes. You'll still be living like a student.

If you find it's not for you the experience will stand you in good stead for Uni where you'll be more self sufficient and self confident. Better still learn French and Italian whilst you're out there and you'll be laughing. It's a very good point point about meeting people out there as networks are often ways into to better opportunities. It may not be right but it's often not what you know but who you know....

Put Uni on hold go and do what makes you happy.

Find out if you actually like winter climbing... It looks brilliant to everyone watching videos or looking at pictures but once actually out there it is not to everyone's tastes even if they thought it was. Up at silly-o-clock, a frugel breakfast, a long drive, a back breaking soul sucking sweat up the hill with winter gear and clothes to find that not much is in condition or the weather is just miserable can put many people off it for good. Then there is the climbing itself. Spindrift, hot aches, poor gear. Long run outs. Crap belays. Forced retreats. Navigation epics. Tears, blood, sweat -- but also unimagined enjoyment and appreciation if you love all that!

In reply to oliverg:
Spend the money you would put towards this:


On experiences that will give you this:

So how on earth does a 16 year old rock climber from the Peak District get into all of this?

In reply to oliverg:

if you just love climbing, dont do it.

if on the other hand you are attracted to the people stuff and the identity then go ahead.

for a few years guiding is fun, then it gets hard to move on from. the saying is 'the only thing harder than getting into guiding is getting out of it'.

the ideal gig is as an occasional guide whilst you have a real job. guide the season you enjoy least and spend the proceeds climbing during the season you enjoy most.

remind yourself that your guiding days will be spent climbing things that may not interest you, at a level well below what you find enticing.
you learn a lot of cool stuff and occasionally meet great people - but theres a huge difference between their holiday and your job.

all said tho, the training is great to do. attaining the standard is much of the value. going on as a career guide is another matter altogether.

youve got a few years to get climbing before your number comes up, so start nailing the routes - not just for you, but for the assessments.

even if it doesnt go as planned, dont freak out. theres other guiding opportunities.

In reply to TobyA:

Not if you're English.

In reply to adnix:

All very convenient when written down, but in all honesty it'll take four times that. Factor in: lack of cash; lack of opportunity; lack of transport; crap weather; crap partners; injuries; accidents; poor mountain conditions; route finding errors; it all adds up.

In reply to oliverg:
Hi Oli
1. Read http://www.bmg.org.uk/index.php/eng/Community/Being-a-Mountain-Guide/Jonny-... and
2. http://www.bmg.org.uk/index.php/eng/Community/Being-a-Mountain-Guide/Andy-P...
3. There's loads of time. If someone had told me at when I was 24 and camping with the shuffling dossers in Snells Field that, 20 years on, I'd be a mountain guide and living in Chamonix, I'd have said they'd had too much red wine to drink
4. Go climbing loads and enjoy it for what it is - the best sport in the world.

In reply to Andy Perkins: agreed, I think we were probably there about the same time - 70's?

In reply to unclesamsauntibess:

Totally agree with this.

Thanks for all the feed back-hopefully I have found someone to go out climbing with this winter, so looking forward to it!

Oli

In reply to oliverg:

What about studing Paramedic or Nursing, Bussiness s etc something that will be a life skill you can apply in a climbing future as well as have as a back up career if you find you don't like guiding for some reason.

I climb a lot but aren't a guide. ( I think Early mornings,no personal space etc sounds like hell) I have a lot of friends who are. Their path took Up to 10 years to be fully Qualified, but most worked in the field as their skills grew.

I would suggest joining Local and Uni/ school clubs in Orienteering ( navigation is a huge skill), Climbing, tramping, skiing etc. You can learn from older members in Local clubs and Learn leadership in the School ones.

Go to every avalanche awareness seminar, volunteer on Local search and rescue etc. (Even if it is a low land team at first you will learn heaps of skills that will help later like 1st aid, Leadership.) Get involved and you'll meet partners and before you know it you'll build the skills to do this stuff.

Good on you for knowing what you want to do. Just make sure you keep up your back up skills as Knees and backs wear out.

Just got back from Holiday and have been reading some of the comments more carefully.

Whilst on Holiday I was actually talking to my parents and I suggested that maybe I wouldn't go to uni, and would work and earn money to help myself instead.

I really want to try climbing this winter, and was wondering if anyone new any ice climbing/ winter mountaineering courses for under 18's, so that I don't have to wait till next winter.

Failing that are there any guides people now of which would do private guiding/ instructing for under 18's.

And then failing that, would experienced climbers out there be will to show me the ropes?

Thanks again,

Oli

I don't think you would find any problem with someone taking you out. The actual climbing bit you might take to quick but its the general winter skills which are better to learn first as this is where danger lies before you rope up. No point in climbing up a good winter climb if you do not have the skills to be able to get back down the hill again solo in crampons again

I would get onto a basic winter skills course just so you know the basics of moving in crampons and with a single axe on winter terrain first. Once you know the mountaineering side of it you will probably take to the climbing without bother. If you could join a club or get someone to show you winter skills then that would be just as good. I took my mate up and showed him what he needed to know. How to move in crampons and how to self arrest etc.

In reply to Milesy: Yeah but I can't find anyone to show me the winter mountaineering skills, do you know any clubs that would show me this? And all the winter skills courses are 18+, which I is why I was thinking about a guide.

Also by 'the ropes' I didn't literally mean the ropes , just general mountaineering skills, like you mentioned.

Oli

In reply to oliverg:

Hi Oli, if you want to come to scotland this winter you're more than welcome.

Let me know when you're about at the edge and i'll bob round, or get my number off Randall.

Ta,
Karl

In reply to oliverg: great you have a vision, wish id had one at 16! however, i would advise go to uni, do an engineering degree and start a career in oil industry (one of the Aberdeen unis logical choice)), do that for 10 years working offshore, climb lots on your shift weeks off, save up hunners of cash so you have a substantial nest egg,, go through the guide program, try it out, if you dont like it or get sick of it revert back to oil work. very wise to have a back up skill/career as you may find you prefer to keep mountaineering as your hobby. I may be talking mince but I personally dont know of any mountain guides who are in their 20s..

I very much regret not being advised when I was 16 to aim for a career in the scottish oil industry which is a world centre of excellence so youll never have a prob finding well paid work

good luck!

In reply to KiwiPrincess:


This is a very good point. These are the professions where you can work just about anyhwhere. Once you've got paramedics degree + guides degree you can work for heli rescue, too. That's always been my dream job but I miss both of the degrees... I've got the business degree.

In reply to adnix:

Possible starting point - the Jonathan Conville Memorial Trust runs subsidized courses in Scotland and Alps aimed at youngish folk to learn some foundation safety skills: http://www.pyb.co.uk/conville.php

In reply to baldie_chick: Cheers for that, I will bare that in mind for 2012

Oli

In reply to Erik B:


It is very strange that nobody offered such advise. However I made a move towards the oil industry towards the end of my degree before eventually deciding against it. The time off sounds great, but spending 2 weeks or more at a stretch couped up in an unpleasant and / or dangerous offshore installation sounds less great.