UKC

What next, you might ask? Unbelievable.

http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/1024-three-months-suspended-sentence...

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Blimey, that's crazy.

They should have had beacons that's a given but the precedent it sets it's very worrying.

I hope he wins the appeal. Where does it stop next? Members of different groups?

In reply to John Roberts (JR): glad I got the trouble and striffe a transiver for christmas a couple of year back.

In reply to Blinder: Ah, but did you make sure she put the batteries in? As the more experienced skier you may be liable...

In reply to Tom Briggs:
Bizarre. It's not as if the lack of beacon was definitely the cause of the fatality. Sounds like a big avalanche, and if she was discovered 1m down and with head injuries, there must be reasonable doubt about how far a beeper would have changed the outcome.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Bit harsh maybe, and sets a precedent. But the fact the accident occurred despite him thinking it was safe, underlines strongly the reason to wear the beacon at all times...

In reply to jon: Yes Jon...sounds harsh but if you have one why would you not have the beacon switched on?

In reply to Nigel Modern:

and if they didn't have beacons at all... would he still have been convicted?

In reply to Tom Briggs:

I bet he regrets saying:

“We thought we’d go down a safe route. We were sure that we would not need our beacons. My wife has always trusted me”

Now, if he'd said:

"I could never persuade her to switch the bloody thing on, in fact I was just yelling at her to do exactly that when...

In reply to Tom Briggs: Shocking is not the word.

In reply to rallymania: I think what has happened is atrocious but the nutty thing is that having beacons and not switching them on might be seen to be worse than 'forgetting' your beacon...which is probably what people without beacons would say had happened...and as someone else has pointed out, if he'd said he had told her to switch it on and she hadn't done so he wouldn't have been in trouble.

Bonkers but that's the way it is and the precedent has been set.

In reply to Tom Briggs:


The basic problem is that legal systems are set up to find someone at fault for any mishap, and so do so when it is not appropriate.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

It's not just in Austria. In the Aosta valley it is now illegal to go off-piste skiing or ski-touring without avalanche kit.

Is there any difference between this and seat-belt laws?

In reply to nb:

>Is there any difference between this and seat-belt laws?

Well, yeah. You don't get convicted of manslaughter if you have a car crash and your passenger isn't wearing a seat belt.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

You'll get convicted if you're in Italy, for instance.

In reply to Coel Hellier: Only two sorts of people have never a made a mistake in this world, and they're lawyers and journalists.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Well you may if you instruct your passenger not to wear a seatbelt then take an off-road shortcut.

Fact is that having a transceiver and not bothering to switch it on when going off piste is bonkers, and rescuers have been killed by secondary avalanches when searching for victems

In reply to Tom Briggs:
Tough, especially on someone who's lost their wife, and it's hard to sympathise with the law in this case. But it's not at all unprecedented for the state to strictly govern issues of personal safety, and if this bloke is reckless enough that he thinks it's enough that his wife trusts him, he is very stupid indeed. From the point of view of mountain rescue, imagine how you'd feel towards him - someone dead because of his own self-belief. I'd be furious, and I do think that others who 'forget' their transceivers etc are grossly irresponsible and that behaviour needs to stop. It's not enough to say that if you choose to do it then on your head be it - people love you, and *they* care what happens, and mountain rescue don't need the danger to themselves either. So for me, jail seems wrong, especially for a widower, but I do think something needs to be done to stop people being irresponsible in such dangerous areas.

In reply to kevin stephens: exactly.

In reply to Tom Briggs: sorry - suspended sentence, not jail unless he's back in the dock - fairer than I'd thought.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Not true, there are always other lawyers and journalists to spot each others mistakes.

In reply to nb:

I'm not sure about the Aosta Valley reference, although there was a newspaper article (Corriere della Sera which used this statement 18 months ago I think). The rule applies in the Piemonte which does include Alagna and is a big 'Freeride' location. It's often thought to be in the Valley boundary, but the rule does not, (or did not unless there have been recent changes) apply across VdA -Valle d'Aosta-.

This thread would be a good one for the new 'Ski Mountaineering Forum'??

In reply to Tom Briggs:
In France, quite a few French guides will only take clients (for a fee) or go out amongst themselves for that very reason of being the most experienced. Sad but these guys chose to no longer go with friends and sometimes even family! Not all thankfully.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

I agree, say I am out with a slightly less experienced person on a snowy slope we both have crampons and ice axes but think they are not necessary yet, however they take a slip and injure themselves, we all take personal resposibility in such cases for our own safety, only a complete beginner under instruction would have cause for complaint. Anyone going to the mountains is aware of the risks and possible consequences.

In reply to aostaman:

Yep, that was me making things up. You're dead right, the law applies in the Piémont, not the Aosta valley.

http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=36...

Well from the sound of the information presented, that sets a very dangerous and worrying precedent.

That's what the state seems to want these days:

A life deprived of the opportunity to take the risks that allow one to gain experience to do things well

Followed by a premature death due to choking on an olive stone while 20 bystanders fail to clear your airway due to fear of getting sued

Honestly where do they think mountain guides get their experience from? Guide school? Hahahaha. Give me an instructor who has screwed up and learned from it, any day.

At the same time, a tragic accident; my condolences to the family.

In reply to Tom Briggs: I initially read this post as three months suspended sentence for forgetting bacon. Ah well.

In reply to Tom Briggs:


That's it, next time I go out with my better half she is having everything! Avalanche beacon, BD Aqua Lung and a ABS Air Bag.

In reply to JoshOvki: As was taught to me..
Beacons: "On in the car, off in the bar".