UKC

Hi All,

Quite new on here so there may already be the relevant forum. I am looking for an ice axe for ski mountaineering use i have done enough touring and a bit of summer climbing now its the leap to combine them. i shall be heading out to the alpes on a couple of trips this coming winter. Both of which will require an ice axe i am told.

i have been looking around at something like the bd venom or similar.

has anyone got any recommendations or selling one that may be ideal?

In reply to bennys89:

Already posted this on the Viper vs Venom thread...


For ski -touring/-mountaineering, I see no real point for an ice axe (ie. something like the Venom or your average axe.

A self arrest tool, like Grivel Kondor or BD Whippet will be much more handy for actual ski descents and ascending those lines that can be skied down. I use a Whippet.

And if you're heading up a line that is technical enough, then your average ice tool(s) (in my case Viper or Vipers) will be handy.

Though, this assumes that you already have proper ice tools and do (or plan to do in the future) technical winter climbing or ice falls. If you'll settle for "mellow" mountaineering and ski-mountaineering, mebbe an ice axe would be the way to go. In that case, I'd prolly go for a 55cm BD Raven or something similar from Grivel.

In reply to bennys89:
Well there isn't a ski mountaineering forum so you can put the post where ever you want.

Most folk use one about 50 to 60cm. Charlet petzl do a really good alloy shafted but steel bladed. Short ones are better on the sack but not as useful when deployed! A point of interest is how you store it. You don't want it to either fall off in a whipe out or, what is worse, hit you around the head.
If you are the "leader" then there are occasions where a longer shaft is better. When skinning and you think that a weaker member of the group might have trouble with a kick turn a long shafted axe can be really useful to use the adze to reach infront and to the side to excavate a platform. I sometimes take a 70cm axe for this and keep it in the side compression straps to pull out (excalaber style) to do this.
Hope this helps
James e

In reply to bennys89: I've found I very rarely use my axe when ski touring so lightweight is first thing. After that any general purpose axe is just fine. I like my Grivel - proper steel head but still very light, but this cheapy one: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3300 worked fine on my last trip.

In reply to bennys89: I had a look at this axe when I was in Inverness and it's a beauty. http://www.macmountaineering.co.uk/acatalog/black_diamond_raven_ultra_469.h...

I use a BD Raven, the one with the rubber grip. There are lighter axes on the market but non of them have a non slip grip. I consider this essential as you wouldn't normally use a strap on the axe for Ski M, so you don't want to drop it. You also have to grip harder to use it if it does not have a rubber grip. c60cm+ is good.

Mostly I don't bother with an axe at all, as boot crampons and poles seem to be the way to go. However, on some tours (steep) or in some conditions (icy) I carry an axe.

In reply to top cat:

Why would you not use a wrist strap? That's more a rhetorical question than actually looking for answer - I know all the reasons why people say they don't like using a wrist loop but for me at least they've always been outweighed by the advantages.

Besides anything else, then you DON'T need a rubber grip on your axe.

In reply to bennys89: Someone really should raise the issue of a ski-mountaineering forum!

I use a Grivel Air Tech Evo - a pretty light all rounder that will probably see you up anything past my ability. Has a bit of a grip on it, and a leash of sorts.

Those BD Whippets look pretty lethal to fall on were you to take a tumble on a ski descent, no?

In reply to bennys89:

Any axe with a decent head and adze. The last time I used an axe skiing was in the northern corries and that was my quark. I was glad of an axe as climbing gullies with poles is rubbish.

If I was buying a touring axe, I'd go as light as possible, I just can't justify the expense of another axe for a couple outings a year.

In reply to TobyA:

I generally have my axe in my uphill hand so a wrist strap would really get on my wick. This maybe because I use short axes.

In reply to HeMa:

Do you rate whippets then? They seem to rave about them on wild snow. They look good for arresting a fall, do you just have one?

I think I'd still prefer an axe to climb with. Whippets look too unwieldy.

In reply to bennys89: get a light walking axe rather then the ultralight touring axe ifyou go to a shop and have a swing you'll get the idea. get rubber and wrist loop, neither are heavy. you need to cut steps or dig a t axe belay with it so the racing axes are not really up to the job

In reply to galpinos:

Yeah, because unlike the axe/tool, it's always ready. So for steep neve, a Whippet or something like that is way to go.

I only have one since I'm a wuss and don't plan on skiing anything that steep that would mandate two Whippets.

Funnily enough, when I compared the blade of my Whippet to my friends Grivel Air Tech... they blades were pretty much the same lenght (ok, Grivel might have been .5 of a cm longer).

But as has been pointed out, the key to self arrest poles (like Whippet), is that it is always there. So rather easy and quick to arrest falls.

In reply to galpinos:


If I'm really zigzagging loads I just put the loop over the adze and tighten it. Stays perfectly out of the way there. But when you need to actually swing it like an axe, having a wrist loop obviously makes loads of difference. I've also heard a number of amusing stories of French guides or aspirant guides (who never seemed to use wrist loops even before leashless became the norm ice climbing) managing to drop their axes down bergschrunds when actually swinging them for climbing!

In reply to bennys89:
I guess this is going to conflict with what some others have said, but it's from personal experience. I've used a Petzl Snowracer for some time now, and think it's as good as any. It's light, but the head is strong enough for cutting steps.

I prefer not having the rubber grip. It adds weight, but more importantly for me, it also adds resistance to pulling it out of the rucksack straps, or gear loop of my waistbelt if I want it in a hurry. Get grippy gloves if you are concerned about it slipping.

In reply to HeMa:
I would add that my default touring poles are those grivel condor things. The main reason is the shape of the handgrip means that I put my hand on the flat top and get a good push when skiing on the flat which prevents wrist strain.
I have climbed II gullies with them but it is all in the feat up to VI anyway!
James e

In reply to James Edwards:

VI with ski poles would be a feat indeed!

In reply to Scomuir: I've used a Charlet Moser 'Helium' which I don't think they make anymore but its a steel head & alloy shaft. Pretty light which is good as most of the time it stays on my sac. But I've climbed Scots III with it & it seems quite robust (its now over 15 years old).

I like Toby I've always had a leash on it, always its not always used.

In reply to Doug:

I like Toby too, but I wouldn't put a leash on him

In reply to HeMa:

I think I would go for a Whippet if I was going to buy more kit because I always get my axe out too late or try to do without it. Having the pick right there would be very useful

In reply to Jamie Hageman: oops, dangerous to type & talk on the phone at the same time

In reply to Jamie Hageman:

I have one and they are very light and ergo. The adze doubles as a bottle opener too!

In reply to HeMa: Im not sold on the whippet, i have one but dont never use it. If you fall sking on hard snow on steep ground you are going to the bottom with or without one and i think they give a false sense of security. more importantly you look like a girl sking with it! The one thing i think they are good for is climbing up somthing which would normally require two axes for example the tour rond n face i used a whippet and touring axe which was a lot lighter than two axes plus poles for skiing.

In response to the op what about the camp corsa nano tech, weighs nothing for ski touring and you could climb up too About WI4 with a pair!

In reply to Morgan Woods: I have a raven ultra but the camp axes is lighter and climbs better, i used a friends and its been added to the long list of gear i want!

In reply to Ben Briggs:

really? i've pretty much thrown mine away - i can't get it to go into anything more substantial than spindrift...

In reply to bennys89: I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the DMM Vapour:

http://dmmclimbing.com/products/vapour/

Light, strong and excellent value.

In reply to Ben Briggs:

I use a camp nano tech. No problems ski touring with it. Only ever use it bootpacking or cramponing up something, never in my uphill hand touring as some of the messages suggest. Light as a feather.

In reply to bennys89: gone for the bd raven, got it at a good price 2nd hand so will see how i get on with it. thanks for advice

In reply to bennys89:

I use a lightweight Camp effort - perfect for snow/neve and to carry for glacier skiing if you need to do some digging for anchors in the event of a crevasse rescue.

Perfect for the majority of outings although it is an expensive luxury and only worth buying if you do a lot of touring. As other posters say, lightweight options are less useful in harder snow/ice - if this is expected on your tour then carry a proper walking axe

In reply to Tobias at Home:

Can i have it then? Wouldnt want you to have to bin it