UKC

Does anyone use 2 sleeping bags in winter, how well does it work?

I have An ME Lightline, 550g down bag that is rated for -5 comfort -12 limit, I'm not a very warm sleeper and I've been uncomfortable at -5. I want to camp more this winter.

I was thinking that a superlight summer bag such as a Rab Neutrino 200 might work inside my current bag to boost it's warmth? This would also give me a summer bag.

Is it going to allow the bags to loft effectively? Or should I get a full winter bag like a ME Snowline/Iceline? This option is considerable more expensive but there are some good deals atm.

I'd like to be comfortable down to -10 or maybe -15.

In reply to Gfunk:
The lightline isn't especially roomy inside is it? It if were it wouldn't be very warm. Does yours also have the body hugging elastication on the inside too?

If so, it might be an idea to consider an overbag, as made (expensively) by phd but also very easy to make yourself using some fabrics from, e.g. pennine outdoor. If made of synthetic rather than down it will also do the very useful job of keeping your down bag drier in a tent.

Alternatively- find a cheap, roomy synthetic bag from the high street?

In reply to Siward:

I thought about the synthetic bag but the packability of the whole thing becomes a problem, I'd like to do some winter bivi-ing and not need a massive pack.

You're right my Lightline isn't exactly roomy though. Hmmm a proper winter bag might be the practical (expensive) solution.

In reply to Siward:

Decathalon used to do an excellent over bag that is 450g and adds 5 c to the bag, good cut for going over a full bag. Not sure if they still do it?

In reply to Gfunk:

Pretty obvious, I guess, but keeping your head warm makes a big difference, especially with a balaclava.

In reply to Gfunk:

Do you use a liner? Any liner adds warmth, a fleece one quite a bit!

In reply to Gfunk:

I know that Andy Kirkpatrick recommends the 2 bag system - there is an article about it on his Psychvertical website.

However, a solution I use in winter is to add a silk liner and a Rab survival zone (same as an alpkit Hunka, basically). This definitely boosts the warmth by a good few degrees, then I add clothes if necessary.

In reply to Gfunk:
If going for a full winter bag, then have a look at Alpkit SkyeHigh 1000, rated to -16C and only £165, which is a real bargain compared to equivalent ME , Rab, etc. Maybe not quite as light as the more expensive ones at about 1.8kg, but worth considering.

In reply to Gfunk:

Untill I got my RAB 5 season bag which I used sleeping on snow in the Himalaya I always used to use two sleeping bags. A lightweight summer one inside a 4 season bag.

I was always as warm as toast in temps down to -20. Although more bulky the two bag combination gives you the option of only using one at lower warmer altitutes, particularly during an approach trek.

In reply to Gfunk: I've used a two bag system car camping (ME Dewline and a buffalo outer and that was Grand.

But It dosent work with an ME sleeping bag with Exl as the outer bag. I also have a lightline and tried to put the Dewline in side it. it just gets squashed by the elastic. and got very claustraphobic.

You can get some reletively good quality synthetic bags to use as an outer some of the american ones tend to be a little roomier cut.

It is Bulkier and heavier than a Specific winter bag but not massively look at the PHD outer bags to give you an Idea of How much fill you need to boost you bag to as to -5 bags will be warmer than a -10 one. HTH

In reply to Gfunk: The Decathlon S15 in XL size (I think?) is a good over bag for winter, i got the idea from one of my mates and bought one myself. It works really well and stops my down bag from getting wet and also gives me a bag to use in the summer

In reply to Gfunk: A pal of mine uses two bags that sound similarly warm (though less posh) than the two you mention. We bivvied in an exposed position at about 1050m on Sunday night, temp was minus a fair bit and with a steady cold breeze. He seemed as happy as I was in my much warmer single bag. But he's said there are two issues:

1. Lofting - if squeezing two bags together compromises this then you may as well not bother.

2. Weight and pack size - My better single bag is lighter and more packable than his two.

It'll take a lot to keep you comfy down to -15 given what you've said, and I'd say the best (only) guarantee of that is to buy a decent full weight bag.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Not sure I agree Dan about the 'only'. I've got a PHD synthetic overbag (the cheaper sale Combi version of the current Overbag) and together with my existing Minim 500 it works very well in winter. You are quite right that they are a bigger and heavier option, however, I had the Minim to start with and it was a cheaper and more flexible (for me) option for all year round. I also like the synthetic outer for less than perfect pitches or weather.
The bottom line is both work as long as the outer bag is big enough if you use two. It just depends what you have to start with and can afford I'd say.

In reply to More-On: I have the same overbag and use it with a Minim 300 and am just back from the Atlas for two weeks, it was perfect. I even lent the overbag to someone to use in Marrakech, due to dirty hotel sheets. Two bags, sized properly give a huge range of options, especially as I have a Drishell overbag which can negate the need for a bivy sack.

In reply to More-On: Possibly should've added a ? to 'only' as it wasn't meant to be a pronouncement on all double bags, just the OP's. Given they sleep on the cold side and the heavier bag they already have has proved uncomfy at -5 they'll surely struggle to find a thinner bag to go inside it that will give them an extra 10 degrees of warmth...?

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com: No indeed, I was thinking exclusively of the overbag route as I agree completely about trying to fit another bag inside.

In reply to Gfunk: I've done it lots over the years, but only recently found that my cheapy Haglöf synth bag works much better over my ME lightline than a second (and roomier cut) ME down bag. I'm not totally certain why, it might be something to do with the synthetic insulation protecting the down (same logic as S2S use, see: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3747) but it might just be fit. It get's big and bulky pretty quickly, so perhaps best for car camping, but is deffo worth a try if you have two bags already - considering how expensive warms bags are.

In reply to TobyA:

My 2nd bag is a totally trashed old ME dragon. It's been washed badly, the down is in big clumps and it's got a gross greasy sheen to it. Nice eh. It should be in the bin.

I'm doubting that it's even worth trying that over the lightline. I might give a cheapish synth a go and see.

The decathlon bag has been suggested, any other models of thin synth bag to try for not too much money, anyone?

In reply to Gfunk:

I've used a 2 bag system for colder weather. Admittedly not been much below -5°C though. Mostly been using a minimus 300 and a Marmot Wave 1 as a synthetic overbag. Works really well as the PHD is skinnily cut and the Marmot pretty roomy so very little compression of the down.

I've compared the weight and bulk and that system is not much heavier nor more bulky than carrying my Ladakh 800. If anything it's better as you can pack around 2 smaller objects more easily than one big lump.

In reply to Gfunk: snugpak (or someone) do an 'expansion strip to widen existing bags.