/ Getting dropped on the flat

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TheGeneralist - on 02 Apr 2012
Need some advice and abuse on why I couldn't keep up with the Tempo road group on Sunday. Two weeks ago on the hilly ride I was fine and got up the hills in good order. This weekend's ride was pretty flat but after 62 miles I just couldn't keep up. I'd done a few pulls at the front but not a huge amount. I just had nothing more when they upped the pace. Average speed at that point was 17.8 mph.

Does the bike make a huge difference on the flat? I can see that a heavy bike would be a disadvantage on the hills but not sure if it matters so much in other circumstances...

Maybe I've answered my own question.... time for a new bike.
interdit - on 02 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist:

On the flat your bike weight will make little to no difference to the speed you roll at for any particular power output.

It will make a difference to your ability to accelerate.

Did the pace pick up steadily, you initially kept pace but then fell out the back or was there a constant stream of 'attacks' or accelerations, one of which finally snapped the elastic?
Also, was it truly flat or rolling?

Unless you are really (really) skinny then ignore the bike weight and just get stronger / lighter, but don't forget to train for explosive accelerations - which requires something slightly different to the constant power of a hill climb.

ps. If you have the power to weight ratio, plus the acceleration ability, and you've got the stamina from plenty of base miles and you still get dropped from the group as the pace picks up then I would serious reevaluate tactics. Are you really being accurate in how much effort you are putting in at the front early on? Are you fueling right?

Winners usually draft quite a bit ;o)
NIGBEE on 02 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist:

Where in the group were you? I get dropped on sudden speed increases if I am near the back, better to be mid group which gives to chance to react and keep more people to shelter behind, once off the back its really hard to re-attach

Good tyres really help with flat riding as well
JLS on 02 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist:

>"but after 62 miles I just couldn't keep up."

Sounds like a fuelling/hydration issue to me... either that or they'd upped the power output to a level you could no longer sustain aerobically.

A lighter bike always helps.
Toby_W on 02 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist:

The bike won't make a difference, I can ride people off my wheel on my Thorn touring bike, the only time I really feel the difference is on hills and when people kick and accelerate.

Do get a new bike though, you'll smile and you will go faster.

I love hills and can ride most people out of sight on them, on the flat the stronger guys pay me back for it. It's what you practice and what your build lends itself too, also it does sound a bit like you ran out of energy as others have said.

And remember, the most important thing is that new bike ;-)

Cheers

Toby
Padraig on 02 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist:
I agree with JLS.. Sounds like a fuel problem. Abilty to change "fuel" gears quickly is almost as important as virtual gears!! Also, don't forget the body is perhaps riding an hour earlier??
But I'm guessing you REALLY want a new bike??
interdit - on 02 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist:


Just to recap this thread


The general advice is to get a new bike...
... and eat some more biscuits before, during and after riding ;o)


Just looked at your posting history and spotted last years thread about being unusually fooked for several days after hard riding efforts. Sorted now?
andy - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist: I'm surprised nobody's asked what colour your bike is. Is there a reasonable amount of red in the frame colour? Red bikes have been scientifically proven to go faster than any other colour. The more red the better.

Get a new bike. Get a red one.
Lord of Starkness - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to andy:
>
>
> Get a new bike. Get a red one.

I can now see where I went wrong. Whilst my old blue bike is considerably slower than the newer white and black one with red details that I own, I still manage to get dropped on the flat and the hills with some degree of regularity.
In reply to andy:
> I'm surprised nobody's asked what colour your bike is. Is there a reasonable amount of red in the frame colour? Red bikes have been scientifically proven to go faster than any other colour. The more red the better.

The bloke in my LBS who looks liked a Finnish-speaking Marco Pantani told me when I was picking what colour tyres to get when I needed new ones to get yellow, because everyone knows yellow is faster. Then again my old bike's frame was red. But perhaps yellow is faster at higher latitudes?

OP: I'm the opposite, on long rides I become utterly rubbish on hills toward the end, but still can keep up a decent pace on the flat!
andy - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to TobyA: I'm buggered - new bike's black with hardly any red bits.
robal - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to andy: nope, I've done extensive testing and a huge amount of research on this.... black ones go faster!
Toby_W on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to andy:

Black bikes go fastest up hills, it's just like supercars the really good ones are either red, or black.

I hadn't even considered changing the colour of my tyres, I will have to consult THE RULES about what is acceptable with my handle bar and saddle colour.

Cheers

Toby
Toby_W on 03 Apr 2012
Ahh, just checked, black tyres for me (rule 8):

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Cheers

Toby
In reply to Toby_W: Should note, my saddle and bar-tape were both yellow on the old bike. This is probably why it went faster with yellow tyres.
Ramblin dave - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to Toby_W:
Possibly the OP needs to consult rule #5?
Rigid Raider - on 03 Apr 2012
Bluddy hell, 62 miles and the group were still sprinting off? Most normal humans would be tired after 62 miles. Are you putting maltodextrin in your bottle? That will extend your energy reserves.
Liam M - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to TheGeneralist) I'm surprised nobody's asked what colour your bike is. Is there a reasonable amount of red in the frame colour? Red bikes have been scientifically proven to go faster than any other colour. The more red the better.
>
> Get a new bike. Get a red one.

It must be true - Cav won the world champs on his red tinged Venge, but couldn't even manage a measly San Remo without the red flecks on his Dogma ;)
Alex Slipchuk on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist: the best training i used to do for racing was interval and hill sprints.
Lord of Starkness - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to Rigid Raider:
> Bluddy hell, 62 miles and the group were still sprinting off?

Sounds like a Southport CC Sunday club run. The serious 'big ringing' happens once we're clear of the lights at Penwortham -- though anyone who gets dropped on the hill coming out of Preston has to hope that the Traffic lights will slow the hard men down enough to get back on before the action starts.

nniff - on 03 Apr 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> - Cav won the world champs on his red tinged Venge, but couldn't even manage a measly San Remo without the red flecks on his Dogma ;)

That's sounds painful - does the team doctor know?
TheGeneralist - on 14 Apr 2012
In reply to interdit:
> Just looked at your posting history and spotted last years thread about being unusually fooked for several days after hard riding efforts. Sorted now?

Nope, I've just not done any big rides recently. I fully expect to be completely gubbed if I finish the Fred.

> Sounds like a fuelling/hydration issue to me.
Could be, though I did eat a fair amount that morning and on the ride.

> Possibly the OP needs to consult rule #5?
very true.

So the consensus seems to be that the bike won't make a lot of difference unless there's hills about. Damn, that's that excuse shot. Was thinking of getting one of those fancy ones with the drop handlebars but I guess drag isn't an issue in a group anyway.
interdit - on 14 Apr 2012
In reply to TheGeneralist:
> (In reply to interdit)
> [...]
>
> Nope, I've just not done any big rides recently. I fully expect to be completely gubbed if I finish the Fred.
>
> [...]
> Could be, though I did eat a fair amount that morning and on the ride.
>
> [...]
> very true.
>
> So the consensus seems to be that the bike won't make a lot of difference unless there's hills about. Damn, that's that excuse shot. Was thinking of getting one of those fancy ones with the drop handlebars but I guess drag isn't an issue in a group anyway.

It's an issue if you are taking pulls at the front, or if your head and shoulders are sticking up above the pack.

Go on. Get a new bike ;o)
TheGeneralist - on 14 Apr 2012
In reply to interdit: new bike is definitely on the cards.... But most likely to be an ibis mojo. Which won't be much use on the road.

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