/ One small design flaw that spoils other wise great bits of kit.

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gd303uk - on 07 Apr 2012
Following on from a thread about Revolver krabs, I was thinking about other bits of otherwise great bits of kit that have a small design flaw that bugs you.
for me the design of the sole on the La Sportiva boulder ex shoes is very annoying, for some reason they have created a thin high edge just were you would use if you were to be edging on a climb, near the ball of the inside of your foot, causing the shoe to roll off the edge with ease. a solid sole around this area would have made these shoes a lot better.
Other than that they are great shoes.
another would be the elastic on the DMM renegade harness that holds the leg loops, the amount of times that slips is annoying, the little plastic buckle thing just doesn't hold the elastic in place strongly enough.
I have 2 of these harnesses and love them.
Am I expecting too much? probably.

Are there any small flaws in other bits of kit you can think of that would easily be fixed?
wee jamie on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: Black Diamond Bod harness - the main webbing belt is too thick to pass easily through the buckle. I can be there for hours with my gloves off trying to double-back!
Charlie_Zero on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

There is a big design flaw in Moon Cypher pants. No fly!
bigbobbyking - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

I get annoyed with the lid of my Berghaus arete rucksac. The bag is great in general, but the lid doesn't float and the pocket in it is tiny. It's a squeeze to get even an OS map in. If the lid was slightly better it would be the perfect sack, but as it is I'll have to get something different to replace it.
Flashy - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to bigbobbyking: I've got the Crag which first came out at the same time as the Arete -- the lid went in the bin within a week and I haven't looked back! Truly terrible lid design but apart from that it's a great bag.
gd303uk - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: yeh lids that do not float have got me also, i have a Macpac pursuit 30 an amazing bag but you can not close the lid over if you have got rope one the top or use the pocket for anything other than a set of keys, i think the new design has resolved this, crazy not to have a floating lid on a rucksack designed for climbing.
and with the moon pants up and over is the only way to pee ;)


Pursued by a bear - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: I've not bought some otherwise excellent harnesses because of the gear loops. Five please, two either side and one at the back.

T.
MonkeyPuzzle - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Stitched double-overs on webbing making it nye on impossible to double back through buckles. A problem on more pieces of kit I can think of. Snip 'em off!
Ann S on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Laces on my sportiva Nepal winter boots- original yellow boots. Could never get these to cinch a really tight knot whichever knot I used. Replaced them with softer flat laces which don't work loose. Otherwise a brilliant pair of boots.
MonkeyPuzzle - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to Ann S:

Five Ten 'lumpy' laces are the best. The lumps bite so knots just don't come undone.
Ann S on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Cheers monkeyp. I'll look out for them.
MJ - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Condoms are a brilliant design in that they stop unwanted pregnancies and the transmission of STD's.
However, why do they make them so small and why do they smell of burning rubber?
Kai - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to wee jamie:

Totally agree with the Black Diamond harness issue. Not just the Bod. The Couloir is also a real pain to get doubled back.
gd303uk - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to MJ: The condom thing has been a trouble for me also ;) until i found this site http://www.theyfit.co.uk/pages/fitkit
and this http://www.lovehoney.co.uk/sex/condoms/large-condoms/?gclid=CKu684ino68CFUkMtAodww6zXg

and to Monkeypuzzle i never realised the reason for the bumps in five10 laces, what a great little design feature.
mountainsheep - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: the lid on my arcteryx cierzo 35, it annoys me.
Mountain Llama - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Any modern cam which does not have a double sling to remove the requirement 4 QR.

Jackets and trousers without different leg and sleeve lengths.

Boots with round laces which slip.
Ben Sharp - on 07 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: Rock shoes that have got "vents" ridiculously low down on the heel. Great for some countries I'm sure but annoying for those times when you need to belay standing in boggy ground.

It's not that having water seeping through is a massive problem really, it's only wet feet but what annoys me is someone's actually gone to the effort to design it that way.

Ben
ballsac - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

for gob-stopping idiocy, it has to be the 'handwarmer' pockets on the Paramo Velez series.

the 'i want to warm my hands up because its cold/windy/raining/snowing' pockets that you have to open the sides of the jacket to get to.

yes, thats right, to keep your hands warm, you have to freeze your body - fcuking genius...
MtnGeekUK - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:
Jetboil hanging kit.

Part of the appeal of the stove for me is that eveeything fits inside.

They've decided that the kit doesn't, so have just sewn a loop on the outside for the hanging kit to slip through.

Many "homemade" solutions (including my own!), easily fit inside.

Plus, at over 20 at full price, it ain't cheap!!
Trangia - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Vango 450 is probably one of the best car camping tents value for money wise. Perfect for a club meet as you can actually stand up in it (well slight stoop) and sit in the front porch area to cook or sip a glass of vino on a camp chair. It's nicely water proof.....until, you unzip the entrance which then allows all the accumulated water to cascade in and onto the gound sheet!!

The addition of a simple taped gutter above the zip would resolve this problem. I did write to the suppliers suggesting this but it seems nothing has been done...
CH - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

The bungee cord Mountain Equipment uses in their jackets. I've found they all stretch and lose their elasticity. Great jackets, cheap cord?
Landy_Dom on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Number of gear loops on my Petzl Calidris harness. Comes with 4 as standard which is fine for sport but a little tight for trad. Multipitching would be a nightmare. I've added another 3 (one at the back and one each side at the front) and now it's fantastic :-)
In reply to gd303uk: Hoods that don't fit over helmets on jackets for climbers: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4425
In reply to TobyA: Or how about a stove that seems designed to burn your fingers? http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2993
Ross McGibbon - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to ballsac:
> for gob-stopping idiocy, it has to be the 'handwarmer' pockets on the Paramo Velez series.

Er.... those "handwarmer pockets" are the cooling down vents for when you are too hot!
Explains the draft, doesn't it......

Neil Pratt - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to ballsac:

Totally agree - can't believe people rave about a bit of kit with such a glaring design error.
Stuart the postie - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Paramo Aspira Salopettes

My original pair had a double ended zip, internal gaiters, awesome.

Replaced them with newer model, 2 separate zips now top and bottom, the fly zips down, difficult to pee whilst wearing harness. No internal gaiters either, less awesome than original design!

Stuart
Stuart the postie - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Thumb holes in all winter base layers/fleeces.

Stuart
In reply to Stuart the postie:

> Thumb holes in all winter base layers/fleeces.

What? That's a bad thing? I generally rather like them - not always needed but generally good.
Mikkel - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to TobyA:

I think they are nicem, when the jackets have an extra bit of material coming out with the thumb holes (like the Rab Shadow hoddie), but if its just holes in normal shaped cuffs it doesn't feel so nice.
ads.ukclimbing.com
girlymonkey - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to Stuart the postie:
I love thumb loops in baselayers etc. They stop there being any chance of a gap between gloves and sleeves. Especially good when skiing powder and you take one of those falls that gets snow everywhere!! It's a design feature that I try to get on as much kit as poss
Alex Slipchuk on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to si_pritch: you like then?
ballsac - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to Ross McGibbon:

if i want to cool down i'll open the side vents, neck vents or even take the thing off.

if i want to warm up, i'll, er... do nothing and have cold hands.

brilliant design. if only there was an existing smock design they could have coppied and said 'oh look, you can make a garment with the pockets on the outside - well f*ck me...'
mountainsheep - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: I like thumb loops because they tend to keep my hands and wrists warmer but if your gloves get wet sometimes (only one noticeable one time once i was back in the car) was that the moisture wicked up the sleeves almost up the the elbows.
eschaton - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: buffalo tecmax shirt - when you tighten up the waist velcro strap it causes the fabric at the bottom of the front (just above your crotch) to curl upwards by an inch or two at least. still a fantastic jacket though.

the hood on the patagonia ascensionist, not only do the front elastic drawcords work themselves loose in about 10 minutes, but the rear drawcord when not using a helmet pulls the hood (think disecting drawcords) into a ridiculous shape that slips and moves around and also causes the hood brim to be excessively floppy.
Ridge - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to ballsac:
> (In reply to gd303uk)
>
> for gob-stopping idiocy, it has to be the 'handwarmer' pockets on the Paramo Velez series.
>
> the 'i want to warm my hands up because its cold/windy/raining/snowing' pockets that you have to open the sides of the jacket to get to.
>
> yes, thats right, to keep your hands warm, you have to freeze your body - fcuking genius...

Yep. Can we also add the 'internal storm flap' to the list of niggles. If you put them on the outside it would stop the rain from penetrating the zip...
And while I'm at it can I mention the paramo fuera smock. Great windproof, unless you want to tighten the hood when it's really windy, at which point the specially designed heavy bits of plastic on the end of the adjuster cord keep whipping you across the face.

peebles boy - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

North Face Guide Jacket - amazing bombproof jacket, but what imbecile designed the pockets!?!?!?!

Napoleon ones are TINY and don't fit much in them, side ones are HUGE and anything you put in them needs constantly hoiked up to get it out the way of the rucsac hip belt/harness waist belt!!!!!! GGRRRRRRRRRR!
ezzpbee - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: Mountain Equipment Dragonfly tent, no groundsheet in porch area, just bought a North Ridge Sphinx ( A copy of mine ) for my daughter and this has one at a fifth of the price !
the real slim shady - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: helmets with the chinstrap buckle under the chin rather than at the side
radson - on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to TobyA:

I hate that! Reminds me of a Helly Hansen Odin jacket I bought.
stewieatb on 08 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Hood on the Haglofs Thunder jacket. Nice and big, goes over a helmet, and - in theory - cinches down to your head. Except the elastic was completely misdesigned - instead of the ends coming out on the inside of the jacket so you can pull on the end to cinch the hood down, the ends are sealed in. This would be kind of okay, but the cordlocks aren't attached to the hood properly either, so you have to pull out a big loop of elastic, then fiddle the cordlock into the right place.

It's hard to explain, if you don't understand I'll get some pictures in the morning (and compare it to my Rab APO, which has a similar system except it works).
bouldery bits - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to wobl:
> (In reply to gd303uk) Mountain Equipment Dragonfly tent, no groundsheet in porch area, just bought a North Ridge Sphinx ( A copy of mine ) for my daughter and this has one at a fifth of the price !

Why would you want a groundsheet in the porch?
I use my porch for cooking - a groundsheet there makes life a nightmare in my book - I love me Dragonfly!
wilkesley - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

A blast from the past. The Karrimor Hot Ice rucksack. A good sack, but completely useless ice axe fitments!
3leggeddog on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to Stuart the postie:
> (In reply to gd303uk)
>
> Thumb holes in all winter base layers/fleeces.
>
Len Fairclough's I call 'em

3leggeddog on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to

In response to the OP, most if not all ice tools. Every generation of tool is modified by the user. Can the manufacturers not get it right in the first place?
Sam_in_Leeds - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Waterproof gloves.

Fantastic! Except the great big bloody hole where you put your hands in.
hexcentric - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to Ben Sharp:
> (In reply to gd303uk) Rock shoes that have got "vents" ridiculously low down on the heel. Great for some countries I'm sure but annoying for those times when you need to belay standing in boggy ground.
>
> It's not that having water seeping through is a massive problem really, it's only wet feet but what annoys me is someone's actually gone to the effort to design it that way.


I know - what idiots! Everyone knows the primary purpose of rockshoes is bog travel! Or maaaybe the people not thinking are the ones who: Need to wear their rockshoes to belay / stand in bogs in their rockshoes.......
MtnGeekUK - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to The Big Man:

I like the concept of a hanging kit, not only for big walling.

I just think Jetboil, with all their purchasing power and design expertise could have done a better job.

IMO, I've done a better job for pence, and could potentially be used for any stove.
victim of mathematics - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to Sam_in_Leeds:

So you'd rather gloves with no holes in them? They might not be tremendously useful then...
Alex Slipchuk on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to si_pritch:
> (In reply to The Big Man)
>
> I like the concept of a hanging kit, not only for big walling.
>
> I just think Jetboil, with all their purchasing power and design expertise could have done a better job.
>
> IMO, I've done a better job for pence, and could potentially be used for any stove.
Did you not receive one i made. I sent it out to you?
MtnGeekUK - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to The Big Man:

PM sent
wee jamie on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Peas: Taste great, nice colour. But they fall off your fork all the time. Why hasn't anyone rectified this fundamental problem yet?
StuDoig - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:
Proper hoods on buffalo Tops!!!

Generally a great piece of kit let down by awful velcro on hoods. :(

Chris H - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: Moon trousers - ben moons ar,se must be about the quarter of the size of mine. Tbf thats more a design fault of my ar,se than the trousers.
ezzpbee - on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to bouldery bits: Love mine as well, has stood up to Ogwen Valley winds with only 4 pegs and no guys but with the door on the side you have to crawl out into porch to get out and wet ground means wet trousers
gethin_allen on 09 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:
How about the really silly hood stowing flap on my rab photon jacket, crap at holding the hood rolled up and gets in the way when not.
Ron Walker - on 10 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:
I can think of a great many!

No hand warmer pockets, smock or hood on the new Rab VR jackets.

No hip belt on the Crux RT 30 and cheap flimsy compression cords

Almost impossible doubleback buckle on the BD Bod and Couloir harnesses.

No handy thigh pocket on the ME G2 Pants and a few other mountain pants.

No hood or smock version of the ME microtherm Alpine jacket.

Annoying leg vents zips on the Rab VR, ME G2 and Montane Terra.. The harness leg loops press painfully against the zip on hanging belays and when abseiling. The same zips also constantly unzip down on the G2 pants. Baggy leg bottoms and low cut waists on many trousers

The newer Paramo Salopettes zips aren't as well thought out and difficult to use when wearing a harness. The Paramo Fuera windproof neck zip isn't actually windproof!

Velcro the wrong way round on some gloves causing them to catch on everything.

Bivvy bags such as the Ion have velcro hoods that constantly catch on your thermals and sleeping bag stitching.

And the list goes on!!!!!
Tom Last - on 10 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Another vote for BD Bod harness buckle and La Sportiva laces.
PM on 10 Apr 2012
In reply to wilkesley:
> ...The Karrimor Hot Ice rucksack... useless ice axe fitments!

I still use mine! Never had any problem with getting axes on it.
Stuart the postie - on 10 Apr 2012
In reply to TobyA:

I should have said, all base layers/fleece should have thumb holes! I think these make a huge difference keeping hands warm climbing and would only buy these now.

Pieces of technical clothing that don't have them are flawed.

Stuart
ads.ukclimbing.com
gethin_allen on 10 Apr 2012
In reply to Stuart the postie:
> (In reply to TobyA)
>
> I should have said, all base layers/fleece should have thumb holes! I think these make a huge difference keeping hands warm climbing and would only buy these now.
>
> Pieces of technical clothing that don't have them are flawed.
>
> Stuart

I have a few items with these thumb holes and I can't use the holes because I have nerve damage in my left hand so any pressure makes my thumb go numb. So I now just have draughts around my wrists.

griffen - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:
Map pockets that aren't big enough to get a map inside.
And Harveys maps in general, brilliant amount of detail, nice that theyve bothered to think about which bits the map cover so you can have one not several but why does the print rub off?
Wingnut - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:
The "women specific" version of pretty much anything. Every time I look at the women's department of my local outdoor shop, I thank my lucky stars that, at a fairly broad-shouldered and small-breasted five-foot-seven, I can get away with a small men's.

<rant - not directed at OP, directed at outdoor industry in general:>
FFS, "women-specific" means female-shaped! It doesn't mean remove all the useful pockets, downgrade the fabric to something with all the performance of cheap bog roll, and produce it in a daft pastel colour that's impossible to keep looking even vaguely clean!
Also, you might want to consider that some of your female customers are more than three feet tall and would appreciate tops that come down long enough to cover our bras.
Also again, you might want to consider that being female isn't actually supposed to be a disability that renders us incapable of being able to navigate. All we need is a pocket that'll take an OS map (folded) and a compass on a short lanyard. Let's face it, the MOD got this right, in terms of issuing DPM jackets, twenty years ago when I was a teenage cadet, so I'm sure it hasn't suddenly become physically impossible since?
<aaaand breathe . . . >
</rant>
marsbar - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to Wingnut: Quite. I have written off so many brands that make good jackets because even in female sizes they have enormous shoulders and no space for hips.
cas smerdon - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to wee jamie:
> (In reply to gd303uk)
>
> Peas: Taste great, nice colour. But they fall off your fork all the time. Why hasn't anyone rectified this fundamental problem yet?

I eat my peas with honey;
I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps them on the knife.

wilkie14c - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:
The first generation of jetboil, the well known problem of the breaking igniter.
Rab Vapour rise trail jacket, great jacket but with stupidly long sleeves and a floating fleece liner that means you can't put your arms in easily at all.
Lekki twist-lock poles, alloy and stainless steel don't mix well and corrosion build-up around the widgets makes for unreliable locking.
Ron Walker - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to blanchie14c:
> (In reply to gd303uk)

> Rab Vapour rise trail jacket, great jacket but with stupidly long sleeves and a floating fleece liner that means you can't put your arms in easily at all.

The original lightweight (415 grams) trail smock with high hand-warmer pockets/vents, hood and wider sleeves you could roll up were a fantastic bit of kit.
I still occasionally wear mine, despite it being a bit threadbare with knackered elastic in preference to any of the newer VR of the past 12 years!
The newer ones are much less functional, heavier and as you say with clingy fleece linings. You can't layer them easily and they are also much less windproof.
The latest Alpine ones are lighter but flimsy with no hand-warmer pockets or smock version and with much the same warmth as a heavier weight unlined windproof such as the Paramo Fuera.
I might as well just buy by a shell suit which is basically all it really is!!!
LastBoyScout on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

The lower zip in my Lowe Alpine Cerro Torre rucksack is a crap design - I really wanted the Slimline Alpamayo, but they didn't do it in this country at the time :-(
jonnie3430 - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to Wingnut:
> (In reply to gd303uk)
> The "women specific" version of pretty much anything.

The Arcteryx harness for men without adjustable leg loops which means that you have to have thin legs and thin waist. I have big legs and thin waist, which makes the large womens version a great fit (and it's cheaper too.)
Days on Rock - on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk: Mammut granit rucksack-brilliant apart from the fact that the buckle and strap holding the lid shut is attached so close to the top of the sac that it has to be chock full to be of use; otherwise you have to loop it down throught the axe loops and back up. Grat toherwise, bomproof and simple but an annyoing flaw nonetheless.
hairyRob on 11 Apr 2012
In reply to gd303uk:

Any pair of "walking trousers" that does not have a leg pocket big enough to take a folded OS map in a mapcase. I now wear army type trousers having given up on all the outdoor equipment brands.

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