/ NEWS: Double Rescue for Hapless (& Mapless) Family

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MHutch - on 02 Sep 2012
Not seen an 'incident report' so strongly worded as this before. It beggars belief really.

http://www.lamrt.org.uk/incidents/2012/incident/63

Best wishes to the MR team member injured in the call out.






See this report on UKH too (Ed.)
icnoble on 02 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: They should be charged for the second rescue!!
mypyrex - on 02 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: Utter dickheads
mypyrex - on 02 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: Meant to say, a couple of months ago I joined the OVMRO Support Group. Some of the tales I've heard do beggar belief and serve to bolster my respect for the "frontline" members.
NorthernGrit - on 02 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch:

Yes, noticed the beeb had picked this one up also

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-19456070

highclimber - on 02 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: no words can describe what can only be described as idiocy
baron - on 02 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: Given that the team knew that they were looking for a party that they had already rescued and that the team are all volunteers could they not have simply ignored the call and gone to the pub?
If you volunteer to do something should you then be complaining when people provide you with opportunities to do whatever you've volunteered for?

pmc
highclimber - on 02 Sep 2012
In reply to baron:
> (In reply to MHutch) Given that the team knew that they were looking for a party that they had already rescued and that the team are all volunteers could they not have simply ignored the call and gone to the pub?
> If you volunteer to do something should you then be complaining when people provide you with opportunities to do whatever you've volunteered for?
>
> pmc

if they were to ignore them then they wouldn't have been able to tell us how idiotic these people were.
GrahamD - on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch:

75 years old and attempting the C2C - respect for that at least !
geordiepie - on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to MHutch)
>
> 75 years old and attempting the C2C - respect for that at least !

It's difficult to have respect for anyone so stupid
icnoble on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: Shouldn't this be posted on the lost and found forum?
Darren Jackson - on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to icnoble:
>
> Shouldn't this be posted on the lost and found forum?

Twice.
jjclarke70 - on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to highclimber:
> (In reply to MHutch) no words can describe what can only be described as idiocy

How about the word 'idiocy' :-P
dissonance - on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to GrahamD:

> 75 years old and attempting the C2C - respect for that at least !

if they hadnt needed mountain rescue twice then yes.
wilkie14c - on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: Its about time these challenge walks <3 peaks etc> were programmed into a treadmill and these fools can do the same walk in the comfort of their own home
Dauphin - on 03 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch:

From an aborted attempt at the Ennerdale round a few weeks ago - camped all night below Pillar while a jet engine blew water onto/into/under my tent - walked out the next day back to the car park - the preparedness and quality of clothing of the C2C crew was a wonder to behold. The canadian/yank in tee shirt jeans and a pair of leather shoes with copy of C2C guidebook open at relevant chapter was stand out. 2-3 inches of water on the path adjacent to Ennerdale water and up to the Youth Hostel would of made for an 'interesting' start to day 2 of the plod.

D
GrahamD - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to dissonance:

No one plans to be rescued - we all make errors of judgement. Sometimes the errors have bigger consequences than other times, thats all. I'm still impressed at the thought of a 75 year old giving it a go - certainly less frightening and dangerous than watching some 75 year olds try to negotiate the M25.
ceri - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
certainly less frightening and dangerous than watching some 75 year olds try to negotiate the M25.
Well, they won't hurt other people walking. Hang on, except for the MR guy with the broken leg...

GrahamD - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to ceri:

Its pretty unlucky for a MR member to break a leg, isn't it ? its not like there was anything particular about this rescue that made it more inherently dangerous for the team than any other rescue.
Simon Caldwell - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
And how many of us haven't continued with something despite an injury, hoping it might improve?

The only things I can see that are wrong with this group are their lack of map/compass/navigation skills/head torch. And there are unfortunately many people in the hills that the same applies to.

Not sure why this group has deserved to be singled out in this way.
ads.ukclimbing.com
deepsoup - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Toreador:
Seriously? You did catch the part where they required rescue twice on two consecutive nights didn't you?
Wiley Coyote - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Toreador:

> Not sure why this group has deserved to be singled out in this way.

Because having screwed up and needed to be rescued one day they did exactly the same thing, made exactly the same mistakes and even added an extra one with exactly the same result the next?

999thAndy on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Wiley Coyote:

and the bit where the MRT member bust his leg during the search? I wonder if the rescued family be making up any loss of earnings that might arise?
GrahamD - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Wiley Coyote:

No doubting the level of muppetry - just the 'holier than thou' level of judgement from the all-too-perfect posters on this forum.
GrahamD - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to 999thAndy:
> (In reply to Wiley Coyote)
>
> and the bit where the MRT member bust his leg during the search?

That is very unlucky on the part of the MRT member but it could just as easily (in fact more easily) have happened whilst rescuing one of us know it all climbers from the bottom of a snow gulley.
Simon Caldwell - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to deepsoup:
> You did catch the part where they required rescue twice on two consecutive nights didn't you?

The second was due to an injury rather than muppetry. "Setting off on the day with an obvious injury that was not going to repair itself" - hindsight's a wonderful thing.

I'm not saying they're not idiots, just that there are plenty of other idiots out there who weren't ridiculed in this way.

As Graham said, the point that people have made about the MRT member's injury is plain daft. MRT injuries are unusual but a risk of the "job".
Jon Wickham - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch:

Definition of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
parkovski - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Jon Wickham:
> (In reply to MHutch)
>
> Definition of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> Albert Einstein, (attributed)

...unless you're trying to catch a low probability event in a stochastic system of course.
Simon Caldwell - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Jon Wickham:
> Definition of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I thought that was the definition of bouldering...
Dave Hewitt - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Toreador:

> I'm not saying they're not idiots, just that there are plenty of other idiots out there who weren't ridiculed in this way.

Re the strongly worded nature of the LAMRT report, I think this is the key passage: “a number of team members removed themselves from the room, because they could no longer listen to the list of excuses for their situation”. That kind of attitude is rare but does seem to be on the increase (perhaps connected with the idea that MRTs are statutory rather than voluntary bodies), and in conjunction with an injury to a team member it isn’t likely cast the casualties in a good light.

It’s a long time since I’ve seen or heard mention of an incident where “team members removed themselves from the room”. It brings to mind perhaps the most notorious of all UK rescues, a couple of decades ago in the Cairngorms: a three-day winter search for someone who several team members came to believe was deliberately lying low – and who later sold her story to a newspaper and didn’t give any of the money to the teams. That was a very different incident in lots of ways – and no one is suggesting that the C2C twerps last week had any malicious intent – but there was an injury to a team member on the Cairngorms callout as well (seemingly the chopper crew was asked to take the team member before the official casualty). The main similarity however is that some months later the Cairngorms casualty reappeared in a Braemar bar when some MRT people were also present, and a rescue-team friend told me that several of them “had to be restrained” from going over and confronting her.

The strength of feeling in these things run deep, and I can see why. A bit of humility and gratitude on the part of the casualty makes a huge difference.
deepsoup - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to Toreador:
> I'm not saying they're not idiots, just that there are plenty of other idiots out there who weren't ridiculed in this way.

You may have a point about the 'holier than thou' thing perhaps, but this *is* UKC after all.

I've often been impressed (and a little bit humbled) at how non-judgemental MRT members are regarding numpties. They rarely seem to have a harsh word to say about even the daftest of them (in the case of the MRT members I know personally, even in private).

In this case the MRT certainly didn't seem to think they were ordinary idiots like plenty of others.
dannyboy69 - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch: If I've missed this somewhere I apologise... but did they ask to be rescued on either of these occasions? Were they ever in great peril or just having a bit of a mare?
Bernard Shakey - on 04 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch:

What a great name for a band, hapless and mapless
Chris Harris - on 05 Sep 2012
Wiley Coyote - on 05 Sep 2012
In reply to Chris Harris:
> (In reply to MHutch)
> Could be worse.
>
> http://cheezburger.com/6551660800
You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh

buzby - on 05 Sep 2012
In reply to Chris Harris: thats awsome and funny as hell.
Goucho on 05 Sep 2012
In reply to deepsoup: I think MRT folk are more than aware, that a large percentage of the people they rescue, fall into the numpty/inexperienced/ ill-prepared category.

If every one who ventured into the hills was sensible, experienced, skilled and competent, then apart from those genuine accidents, which can happen to any of us, then the MRT wouldn't have as much to do.

Then again, maybe if we had a culture in the hills that if you screw up, you have to fend for yourself, then we wouldn't have as many numpty's venturing into the hills in the first place.

I think the very fact that the MRT folk are there, and so good at what they do, creates a somewhat complacent attitude.
GrahamD - on 06 Sep 2012
In reply to Goucho:

I'm not sure the effectiveness of the MRTs is a reason for complacency any more than a first world health service is a reason people choose to speed or smoke or drink.

Its probably the steady promotion of the outdoor 'lifestyle', better accessibility and better clothing.
IainRUK - on 06 Sep 2012
In reply to GrahamD: Overall though, its good people want to get out more.. we want a healthy society, an awareness of why we must be environmentally aware.. an unavoidable side affect will be such incidences.. but through education and other measures (the GR's on stiles etc) we can try to minimise...

But people generally have more spare time and more money than 20 years ago so are looking more to the outdoors. Overall that's a positive.
GrahamD - on 06 Sep 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

I agree - I only hope I feel up to doing something like this (walking the C2C, not getting rescued twice) when I'm 75.
kilner on 06 Sep 2012
who called MR on the first night? it sounds like they made it back under there own steam?

Stadler Waldorf on 07 Sep 2012 - 10.129.129.208 [zen-inetgw-6b.nhs.uk]
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to deepsoup)
> [...]
> I'm not saying they're not idiots, just that there are plenty of other idiots out there who weren't ridiculed in this way.
>
> As Graham said, the point that people have made about the MRT member's injury is plain daft. MRT injuries are unusual but a risk of the "job".

I assume you have 'job' in inverted commas to draw attention to the fact that they are volunteers? Saying it's a risk of the "job" doesn't make it acceptable that these people put these volunteer's in danger of injury by being stupid - no map, no compass, no headtorch etc. The fact that they went out and did it all a second time is why people heard about it. They disregarded all advice, and ignored the fact that someone got injured when they went astray. That is why people are making a big deal out of it. If there hadn't been an injury on the second night, would they have had a third rescue team out looking for them the next night.

Put aside the MR member injury - what if a serious injury occurred elsewhere to someone else the next day and the team members were exhausted from searching all night for this group? That could compromise the rescue effort for the next people due to mental and physical fatigue. People don't seem to consider that teams occasionally get called out 3 or 4 times in 24 hours and don't grumble, they just get on with it.
Stadler Waldorf on 07 Sep 2012 - 10.129.129.208 [zen-inetgw-6b.nhs.uk]
In reply to kilner:
> who called MR on the first night? it sounds like they made it back under there own steam?

It seems they went astray the first night, hence the MR team were asked to look for them, finding them in the wrong valley.

Could happen to anyone - especially without maps/compass/headtorches :)
Paul Everett - on 10 Sep 2012
In reply to MHutch:
I am surprised we do not see more of them. The number of times I have been asked which is the right way to go! And I am talking about mountains not where the nearest post office or supermarket is
Carolyn - on 11 Sep 2012
In reply to Paul Everett:

We see a fair few struggling to get out of Ennerdale in the right direction. It's just rare they need help again the next day....
Tom V - on 11 Sep 2012
In reply to highclimber:
A lot of what happens in climbing is seen as "idiocy" by non-climbers. Having a specialist perspective on the activity, as we do, does not make our point of view more valid than Joe Public's.
In this respect I have been guilty of "idiocy" on countless occasions over the years - but I have got away with it.

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