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I've just started top rope soloing using a shunt, all is good but I've s few niggles, firstly getting the tension right on the rope seems to be a problem , too tight makes climbing at the start hard but then towards the top with rope stretch there's a load of slack and the shunt doesnt run up the rope. Would a static rope be better, the routes I'm on are 30m plus. The second issue is that my shunt doesn't release very well, in fact its impossible to descend and having read that you mustn't grab the shunt I feel there may be an issue ? Hope this makes sense
In reply to afshapes:
When you say 'tension' are you tying the rope off to something? The usual way is to tie a weight to the end of the rope (like an IKEA bag with the spare rope in it, for example). As you get towards the top, the weight below the shunt increases as you've got the full weight of the hanging rope there - there is no slack
As far as descending is concerned - shunts don't reverse without assistance. You can grab it, which is OK if you are planning to descend, but bad if it's a reflex. Alterntively, tie a single strand (not a loop)of string through the small hole in the lever - hold this string between finger tip and thumb and use it to pull the shunt down - if it all goes wrong you are more likely to lose your grip on this (and so the shunt will lock) than if you have a fistful of the thing
When you say 'tension' are you tying the rope off to something? The usual way is to tie a weight to the end of the rope (like an IKEA bag with the spare rope in it, for example). As you get towards the top, the weight below the shunt increases as you've got the full weight of the hanging rope there - there is no slack
As far as descending is concerned - shunts don't reverse without assistance. You can grab it, which is OK if you are planning to descend, but bad if it's a reflex. Alterntively, tie a single strand (not a loop)of string through the small hole in the lever - hold this string between finger tip and thumb and use it to pull the shunt down - if it all goes wrong you are more likely to lose your grip on this (and so the shunt will lock) than if you have a fistful of the thing
In reply to afshapes: Use a bungee sling looped round your shoulder like you would carry a 60cm sling. Tie another loop in the end to fasten it to the shunt. A bit of experimentation is required to get the length right so that the shunt is pulloed up the crag with you without having to touch it but is long enough to not double you up in a fall.
J
J
In reply to afshapes: thanks for the reply , I tie the rope to my rucksack , with the rope and other bits to keep it weighted , when I get stuck I jug up the rope and its at this point that the shunt doesn't follow me up the rope.
With
With
In reply to afshapes:
Don't jug up the rope, just lift your leg, wrap the rope round your foot a couple of times and stand up.
Don't jug up the rope, just lift your leg, wrap the rope round your foot a couple of times and stand up.
In reply to afshapes:
I usually extend the shunt slightly with a short sling or dogbone, and use my rack to weight the end of the rope. That is usually enough to ensure it runs okay, I also make sure I have some "escape" kit on my harness which I can use to climb the rope or ab down, ie a reverso a couple of SGs and a sling
I usually extend the shunt slightly with a short sling or dogbone, and use my rack to weight the end of the rope. That is usually enough to ensure it runs okay, I also make sure I have some "escape" kit on my harness which I can use to climb the rope or ab down, ie a reverso a couple of SGs and a sling
Petzl don't recommend using the shunt for this kind of use and I'd be particularly careful if you're not using some kind of back up. It's up to you what you do and if you feel safe doing that, just worth bearing in mind that if you were to have an accident you wouldn't get any kind of compensation.
In reply to afshapes: thanks all, foot loop a good idea , so what about the mini trax ? Is that any better ?
In reply to afshapes:
Got one of those too and used it for TRS but I think it is considered even less suitable now and can dammage your rope.
I suppose we are talking about advanced techniques so hopefully you can asses the risks if you cant take a partner....
> .....so what about the mini trax ? Is that any better ?
Got one of those too and used it for TRS but I think it is considered even less suitable now and can dammage your rope.
I suppose we are talking about advanced techniques so hopefully you can asses the risks if you cant take a partner....
In reply to jwa:
Go and stand in the corner and don't come out until you're a right-thinking person
> just worth bearing in mind that if you were to have an accident you wouldn't get any kind of compensation.
Go and stand in the corner and don't come out until you're a right-thinking person
In reply to afshapes: so is there any reason why my shunt won't release when weighted ?
In reply to afshapes:
As in slide down when the lever has weight on it? It's not meant to. If you do want it to release when the lever is weighted, the only real way is to pull down on the body - it's an abrupt release as you transfer the load from the lever to the body
As in slide down when the lever has weight on it? It's not meant to. If you do want it to release when the lever is weighted, the only real way is to pull down on the body - it's an abrupt release as you transfer the load from the lever to the body
In reply to nniff:
What did I say?
> (In reply to jwa)
> [...]
>
> Go and stand in the corner and don't come out until you're a right-thinking person
> [...]
>
> Go and stand in the corner and don't come out until you're a right-thinking person
What did I say?
In reply to afshapes: ah ok , so to descend mid route what do people do ? , I ended up driving my belay device and prussick below the shunt then fiddled around until I could take the shunt off the rope , but to redo a short section this is a pain , what do others do ?
In reply to jwa:
just worth bearing in mind that if you were to have an accident you wouldn't get any kind of compensation.
WTF??
just worth bearing in mind that if you were to have an accident you wouldn't get any kind of compensation.
WTF??
In reply to afshapes: Alright bud,
Where are you shunting at? You can't unlock your shunt without either getting your weight off it or by having some 3mm ish cord through the tiny whole on the otherside of the device from where the ropes slot in and pulling hard on this. This method is totally unadvisable unless you have backup.
The reason using the shunt is iffy is because it is possible for it to not lock if you fall down the line of the rope and push the shunt down if your krab doesn't rotate to pulling it down. This nearly happened to me on memory lane which wasn't a good idea. The other essential advice is to knot the rope as you go so that if the shunt does fail it will only slide down as far as the rope.
Ben
Where are you shunting at? You can't unlock your shunt without either getting your weight off it or by having some 3mm ish cord through the tiny whole on the otherside of the device from where the ropes slot in and pulling hard on this. This method is totally unadvisable unless you have backup.
The reason using the shunt is iffy is because it is possible for it to not lock if you fall down the line of the rope and push the shunt down if your krab doesn't rotate to pulling it down. This nearly happened to me on memory lane which wasn't a good idea. The other essential advice is to knot the rope as you go so that if the shunt does fail it will only slide down as far as the rope.
Ben
In reply to afshapes:
You wrap the rope around your foot a few times, stand up to unweight the Shunt and then lower into a squatting position. Repeat as nescessary. Prctice makes perfect.
You wrap the rope around your foot a few times, stand up to unweight the Shunt and then lower into a squatting position. Repeat as nescessary. Prctice makes perfect.
In reply to Ben Tiffin ; hi Ben ! Been going up navigation , just up the road for a couple of quick sessions, thanks for the info , I thought I was doing something wrong ! Been getting in some harder stuff , lots of people saying shunting is the way and others saying its dodgy, so backing it up ? What with ?
In reply to afshapes: from reading it seems a second rope with knotts seems a good plan , thanks ukc
In reply to afshapes:
I use a spring loaded Gibbs ascender - similar to your shunt, I guess. But I simply attach it to my harness belay loop with 1.5m of 7mm cord. I pass the cord through the ascender eye and belay loop three times and tie off the tails with an EDK - done. The ascender ends up nice and close to my belay loop. Simple and no 'biner in the mix. I don't care about the naysayers who tell me never to tie anything to the belay loop. (Of course, when I tie into the rope for regular TR or lead, I use the harness tie in points) This has worked for me for over 30 years and hundreds of falls.
I use a spring loaded Gibbs ascender - similar to your shunt, I guess. But I simply attach it to my harness belay loop with 1.5m of 7mm cord. I pass the cord through the ascender eye and belay loop three times and tie off the tails with an EDK - done. The ascender ends up nice and close to my belay loop. Simple and no 'biner in the mix. I don't care about the naysayers who tell me never to tie anything to the belay loop. (Of course, when I tie into the rope for regular TR or lead, I use the harness tie in points) This has worked for me for over 30 years and hundreds of falls.
In reply to afshapes: hiya maye, good to hear your gettin out for some training! Your seem to be doing most stuff just fine, but passing the crux moves that are just too hard isnt that easy - i only do this if i need to, but i grab the rope above the shunt with both arms, then let go with one hand, and pull the rope through the shunt with my ree hand. This is pretty strenuous!
If you have some sort of cord over your shoulder and clipped into the shunt it will hold it out in front of you in a good position so it won't sag etc.
Basic rules are not big overhangs, and no traverses really.
Don't forget to shunt with your (overly) full rack or your making it too easy
Have fun.
Dave
If you have some sort of cord over your shoulder and clipped into the shunt it will hold it out in front of you in a good position so it won't sag etc.
Basic rules are not big overhangs, and no traverses really.
Don't forget to shunt with your (overly) full rack or your making it too easy
Have fun.
Dave
In reply to afshapes: cheers Dave ! I'm sure ill get the hang of it eventually , overly full rack ? There's room for more !
In reply to afshapes: The only time i take ALL my cams (including the size 4) and all nuts and draws si when im shunting
In reply to afshapes: I am struggling with this too. I have tried a grigri,ropeman and a shunt. the shunt is the most user friendly but petzl don't recomended it as it can release under loaded if pressed between the body and the rock. they recommend either a "basic" which is just a jumar without a handle or a complete second rope with an ascender or a mini traxion on it. just using the ropeman seems secure but doesn't run as well and the teeth are really scary on the sheath!
I am off on monday to try my shunt on a single 10mm rope backed up with a second skinny rope with a ropeman as a backup. my skinny rope is very abraision resistant (and therefore a pain in the ass!) I not sure if my ropeman will work on a 8.8mm rope, but it's only belt and braces. the rope drag may be terrible!
On a more encouraging note about the shunt, i have seen some dude self line right wall on the cromlec with a single full wieght rope and just a shunt! LEGEND!!
I am off on monday to try my shunt on a single 10mm rope backed up with a second skinny rope with a ropeman as a backup. my skinny rope is very abraision resistant (and therefore a pain in the ass!) I not sure if my ropeman will work on a 8.8mm rope, but it's only belt and braces. the rope drag may be terrible!
On a more encouraging note about the shunt, i have seen some dude self line right wall on the cromlec with a single full wieght rope and just a shunt! LEGEND!!
In reply to captainfire576:
I don't understand. That's far less impressive than leading it.
> i have seen some dude self line right wall on the cromlec with a single full wieght rope and just a shunt! LEGEND!!
I don't understand. That's far less impressive than leading it.
In reply to afshapes: I already mentioned the issue I have found with shunting. Putting a knot every 4m ish in the rope below where you are climbing provides protection from decking. Otherwise, hang another rope parallel and use another device as backup. Personally, I put knots in the rope.
Ben
Ben
In reply to BenTiffin:
Knots are a terrible idea!!!
> (In reply to afshapes) I already mentioned the issue I have found with shunting. Putting a knot every 4m ish in the rope below where you are climbing provides protection from decking. Otherwise, hang another rope parallel and use another device as backup. Personally, I put knots in the rope.
>
> Ben
>
> Ben
Knots are a terrible idea!!!
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:
Odd response. Please back up?
> (In reply to BenTiffin)
> [...]
>
> Knots are a terrible idea!!!
> [...]
>
> Knots are a terrible idea!!!
Odd response. Please back up?
In reply to kwoods:
The shunt is designed to stop you by sliding down the rope which takes the energy out of it and brings you to a halt (hopefully before you hit the ground!) but, if something stops it sliding (such as a knot) it has been shown to bend out of shape and potentially pop off the rope. There is a report on this somewhere but I can't seem to find it atm.
If you want a back up, the best way is with a separate rope IMHO
The shunt is designed to stop you by sliding down the rope which takes the energy out of it and brings you to a halt (hopefully before you hit the ground!) but, if something stops it sliding (such as a knot) it has been shown to bend out of shape and potentially pop off the rope. There is a report on this somewhere but I can't seem to find it atm.
If you want a back up, the best way is with a separate rope IMHO
In reply to jon: true jon. and not as impressive as soloing it, but if u don't want to lead it it does show some faith in ur shunt. or may be his freinds just couldn't play out that day!
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:
That is not quite so. The Shunt is designed to stop you without slipping. If the force is too high it will slip and while the resistance to slipping will bring you to a stop it isn´t very kind to the rope at all and you´ll probably want to buy a new one. In a top-rope fall you are unlikely to have this problem.
It´s worth noting that the slip values and rope damage are very different depending on whether you use one or two strands.
I use a Shunt on one strand and usually a modded Grigri on the other as this gives redundancy and makes descending later easy.
> (In reply to Kevin Woods)
>
> The shunt is designed to stop you by sliding down the rope which takes the energy out of it and brings you to a halt (hopefully before you hit the ground!) but, if something stops it sliding (such as a knot) it has been shown to bend out of shape and potentially pop off the rope. There is a report on this somewhere but I can't seem to find it atm.
>
> If you want a back up, the best way is with a separate rope IMHO
>
> The shunt is designed to stop you by sliding down the rope which takes the energy out of it and brings you to a halt (hopefully before you hit the ground!) but, if something stops it sliding (such as a knot) it has been shown to bend out of shape and potentially pop off the rope. There is a report on this somewhere but I can't seem to find it atm.
>
> If you want a back up, the best way is with a separate rope IMHO
That is not quite so. The Shunt is designed to stop you without slipping. If the force is too high it will slip and while the resistance to slipping will bring you to a stop it isn´t very kind to the rope at all and you´ll probably want to buy a new one. In a top-rope fall you are unlikely to have this problem.
It´s worth noting that the slip values and rope damage are very different depending on whether you use one or two strands.
I use a Shunt on one strand and usually a modded Grigri on the other as this gives redundancy and makes descending later easy.
In reply to Hounds:
There are a number of ways to modify a Grigri so the rope runs through better mostly used for lead roped soloing but they help with top-rope soloing as well, you might as well use a standard one and pull the rope through occasionally if it´s only as a back-up.
There are a number of ways to modify a Grigri so the rope runs through better mostly used for lead roped soloing but they help with top-rope soloing as well, you might as well use a standard one and pull the rope through occasionally if it´s only as a back-up.
In reply to afshapes: How many times do I have to tell you. Shunting is dirty - you will go blind
In reply to BenTiffin: So i want to do 10 laps on a route i find very hard. Just how does this idea of putting knots in the rope work if im trying to not let go and rest (or tye knots) every few meters ? and the end of my rope is weighted. It sounds like a big old faff.
To be honest i don't much like the idea of knots, just choose suitable routes and there's no problems.
Cheers
Dave
To be honest i don't much like the idea of knots, just choose suitable routes and there's no problems.
Cheers
Dave
In reply to afshapes: so , I tried the second rope with knots tied at intervals and clipped into them as I climbed. It did feel much safer but a faff and not really practical at times. So next time I'm going to try a gri gri on the second rope as as a safe guard. Wrapping the rope around my foot worked a treat and I used a sling around my chest attached to the mallion I use for the shunt , this helped a lot.
Spearing , needs must, you will eventually buy a shunt and realise I'm right , its just how it is.
Spearing , needs must, you will eventually buy a shunt and realise I'm right , its just how it is.
In reply to jimtitt: Very useful suggestion which I must try out. I was once severely embarrassed by a shunt backup locking on a free abseil. Trying to pull up the rope to get my weight off the shunt, then locking off with one arm and releasing the shunt with the other hand is (a) very hard and (b) utterly terrifying.
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