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Premier Post - *WANTED* Climbers to take part in research study

Ncik - on 22 Mar 2013
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Hello fellow climbers

I am looking for climbers of all experience levels to take part in a research study that is looking at movement efficiency as a determinant of climbing performance.
In other words if your a 8a climber do you climb more smoothly than a 7a climber?
To test this I need climbers like yourself to take part in my study.
It all starts with a warm up then...
I will have you climb a specific route on a top rope three times whilst i video. A tennis ball will be attached to the back of your harness to represent your center of mass. This is what I will be tracking to determine the smoothness. Have a look at the picture

The whole process takes about 45min per person. And ideally you would come as a pair, you and climbing partner maybe... if not that is not a problem (just makes life easier for me)

The location of the testing facility is at harpur hill next to Buxton if you need a ride I have a car...

Don't hesitate to drop me an email if you are interested or even if you just want some more info.

Let me know what you guys think.
Zebdi - on 26 Mar 2013
In reply to Ncik:

"In other words if your a 8a climber do you climb more smoothly than a 7a climber?"

I believe there's no general rule. 8a climber will climb 7a route much more smoothly than a 7a climber simply because he's not climbing anywhere near his limit. You can also find two 8a climbers with totally different climbing styles. First one can move very smoothly, having near perfect technique and body movement. The other one, for example, is much stronger and that allows him to climb 8a despite his less than perfect technique. Yet they both climb the same grade. Ideally you'd find equally strong climbers and have them climb routes near their limits (for example 30 equally strong 7a climbers and 30 equally strong 8a climbers).

But that's just my opinion ;)
Ncik - on 30 Mar 2013
In reply to Zebdi:
The idea is to see if there is a difference, that is what i am testing. I believe that there will be a difference because like you said they wont be climbing at their maximal. What I am interested in finding out is to what extent is the efficiency of the movement of the center of mass of a climber a determinant of his climbing ability. It does not have to apply to all climbers just a majority that is how research works.
The reason for me want to look into this is that we can test climbers physiologically and predict their performance levels with sport specific testing that has been developed in the past 2-4 years. However not many research has looked in to the technical and tactical aspect of climbing a a determinant of performance. That is what I wanted to look at and this is the way i want to test it.

Thanks for your opinion, i do hope to see differences and expect to see differences. Well that is if i could find 8a climbers willing to take part.

martinph78 on 31 Mar 2013
In reply to Ncik: Might be worth printing a leaflet or poster and heading down to your local climbing wall at a busy time...
Ncik - on 31 Mar 2013
In reply to Martin1978:
That is a good idea ill have to try it out. Buxton doesn't have a climbing center any where close by... bit annoying. Closest is Rope Race and that is 25-30min drive :(
Simon Rackley - on 31 Mar 2013
In reply to Ncik: How far is stockport form buxton? i'd travel to awesome walls to help out.
Ncik - on 01 Apr 2013
In reply to Simon Rackley:
Hi,
The testing needs to be carried out on the same wall, which is situated just outside Buxton, (Harpur hill).
If you can make it to Buxton then that would be great.
Basically anyone that lives near Buxton please contact me...

Thanks
Simon Rackley - on 01 Apr 2013
In reply to Ncik: Hi Nick its just a little to far for me to travel, good luck though mate
PaulxA - on 02 Apr 2013
In reply to Ncik: Hi Nick, When did you want to do this? Could maybe get 2 to 4 climbers over to Buxton if at the right time. We live 20 minutes away near Bakewell??
mnorman88 - on 04 Apr 2013
In reply to Ncik:
When were you planning on doing this as Harpur Hill is horrid in the cold ??
Ncik - on 08 Apr 2013
In reply to mnorman88:
Hi there I'm testing this week and next week. The weather is letting up and its not to bad at the moment. If your interested in participating please don't hesitate to contact me and we can arrange a time at your convenience.
MarcJLangley - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to Ncik:
Hi Ncik

I am interested in helping out with this study. Let me know the time and date you want me there. I can also bring a climbing partner with me

Regards

Marc
Ncik - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to PaulxA:
Hi
I have emailed you the opening times so if you can do tomorrow or friday or monday? Then let me know by email

Nick
Ncik - on 09 Apr 2013
In reply to MarcJLangley:
Hi there,

Thanks for your interest, I have emailed you about possible times, although tomorrow, friday or monday during day or evening are best (Thursday gym closes at 16:30)

nick
PaulxA - on 12 Apr 2013
Hi folks.

Had a brilliant time falling off Nick's test piece! A fantastic wall hidden away in Harper Hill and a really enjoyable, entertaining and challenging session!

I would recommend Nick's research... well worth the trip just to try the mellow yellow route.

99bolivar - on 15 Apr 2013
In reply to Ncik a pedant offers:
> "movement efficiency as a determinant of climbing performance"
Wouldn't your experimental design only identify any association between movement efficiency and some aspects of climbing performance and not determinance/causality?
Ncik - on 15 Apr 2013
Hello people

This week is the last week I will be doing testing if you are interested then please drop me an email.

Thanks for the people who have taken part so far.
Ncik - on 15 Apr 2013
In reply to 99bolivar:
Indeed this experimental set up will only identify the relation between the movement efficiency and climbing performance. Not just a part of it but performance as a general variable identified by participants highest on-sight technical grade. But as that is what i am looking to achieve it suite my purpose perfectly. And if the variance in performance can correlated to movement efficiency through regression analysis with a high enough value lets say a value of r^2=0.7, then the difference in movement efficiency explained 70% of the changes in ability levels. This is only an example but even if the number is 40% that is still considered high enough to make it a determinant of performance.
If you have a better idea i would love to hear it.
99bolivar - on 15 Apr 2013
In reply to Ncik: It looks as if different disciplines use the word determinant differently. My use assumes causality rather than association which might arise from a third (causal) factor influencing the two experimental variables.
Good luck with your research. I encourage others to volunteer and give it a try - it is sure to be interesting.
Ncik - on 15 Apr 2013
In reply to 99bolivar:
I totally understand your point unfortunately when it comes to climbing there are so many factors that affect performance directly that using a purely positivist approach is not within my capabilities. Trying to determine the cause of improved performance in climbing would mean to understand all the psychological, neurological, physiological, and environmental changes that have happened in a quantifiable way. So the best that I can do in this instance is to determine association. I recently found this paper newly published that looks at the different aspects (psychological, physiological, technical/tactical) of maximum performance I found it really interesting. http://www.johk.pl/files/11magiera.pdf
But thanks for pointing it out I will mention it in my discussion!
99bolivar - on 25 Apr 2013
In reply to Ncik: That paper was well worth reading - thank you for the link. I must work on my finger strength.

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