/ How to make drytooling classic routes acceptable

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dutybooty - on 28 Mar 2013
Putting this post up for a engineering friend, who is too lazy to do it himself. As such I don't fully understand what I'm about to say, but what he said intrigued me.

How hard would it be to make picks/crampons out of extremely tough plastic, attach them, and then dry tool in a non-damaging way?

Sorry for the simplistic nature of what I'm saying, I just don't understand it.
needvert on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty:

Any reason to not just have anyone dry tooling in climbing shoes instead?
dutybooty - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty: Also fair play. Having never drytooled (except on rock sections of winter climbs) I don't know if thats a normal thing to do.
The Lemming - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty:

Just putting popcorn into microwave as this should be a corker.
sharpie530 - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty:

I'm sure I saw some plastic ice picks at an outdoor shop in Barcelona. I think they were made by Grivel and were yellow. I assumed they were for practicing with ice axes indoors.
stonemaster - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty: Been done. There were picks made from Teflon or Teflon-coated picks. Wondered why they didn't catch on?....:)
Muel - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to The Lemming:
> (In reply to dutybooty)
>
> Just putting popcorn into microwave as this should be a corker.

Can't see why. Seems logical to me, dry tooling damages rock. Surely it's worth looking at whether picks and crampons can be created from something that won't damage rock? Maybe some form of perspex? Would be better for training than those rubber hoopey things on sticks I've seen people using indoors...
tom_in_edinburgh - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty:

What's the advantage of replacing the whole pick/crampon with a plastic one compared to putting a plastic sleeve over the part of the normal metal one that touches the rock?
sharpie530 - on 28 Mar 2013
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Could call it the Picdom with a drytooling campaign encouraging people to always use protection
needvert on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty:

Honest question, axes wouldn't damage rock, aside from torquing because of the increased lever arm, any more than clean aid would it?
wilkie14c - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to stonemaster:
> (In reply to dutybooty) Been done. There were picks made from Teflon or Teflon-coated picks. Wondered why they didn't catch on?....:)

Non-stick??
AlH - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to blanchie14c: Yes, I remember we had some at Glasgow Climbing Centre in the late 90s. They were as slippery a hell!
Fredt on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty:

What you need is a material that behaves just like skin, like putting an artificial hooked finger on each pick.
wilkie14c - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to Fredt:
> (In reply to dutybooty)
>
> What you need is a material that behaves just like skin, like putting an artificial hooked finger on each pick.

Radical thought I know but how about a real finger attached to a hand...
muppetfilter - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty: People that fanny about with ice tools in summer are silly little boys... You will notice the near 100% absence of any women in dry tool debates.
gribble - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to muppetfilter:
good point well made.
needvert on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to muppetfilter:

Such blatant sexism!
stonemaster - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to blanchie14c: Exactimundo!...:)
Muel - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to muppetfilter:
> (In reply to dutybooty) People that fanny about with ice tools in summer are silly little boys... You will notice the near 100% absence of any women in dry tool debates.

Bollocks, it started out as a training aid and then changed into a sport in it's own right. Errm, sport climbing anyone?

If you do a quick google images search for "girls dry tooling", you will see loads of girls at it.
wilkie14c - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to Muel:

> If you do a quick google images search for "girls dry tooling", you will see loads of girls at it.

and not all on climbing websites either
itsThere on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty: Why cant the engineering friend work that out for himself, since he is an engineer. I would make a guess that pastic will get worn off. Kinda the same as black holds at the climbing wall from your boots. Rain isnt going to take that off.

You would also need to match up the properties of the plastic with the axe metal. Otherwise it would wear faster in certain places. Then break on you. Anyone mechanical eng know if there is a plastic that could take the forces on a pick. Say maybe >3.5KN. That may not be correct for a T pick, i cant remember. It will prob bend too much. I am not a mech eng, so i dont know much about materials.

Anyway back to google-ing girls drytooling.
GrendeI on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to blanchie14c: Just sounds painful!
wilkie14c - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to itsThere:
I suppose if we look at the big picture we have to decide if dry tooling is for winter 'training' or as a sport in its own right. If we decide it is training then any adaptions to pick design will be counter productive as you won't be training with the same tool as the tool you be using on the routes your are supposed to be training for. If on the other hand we decide we are dry tooling for sport in its own right, then crags such as White Goods already provide the rock to dry tool on and no pick adaptions are nessesary. In addition to White Goods, other crags can/may become available too but alas, after the Denham tooling incident last year the BMC area meet invited any climbers interested in developing a crag to put forward their suggestions for discussion. No climbers took up the offer.
Pursued by a bear - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to dutybooty: Make the picks out of ice. Then climbing the route will require delicacy in placement so as not to damage the pick and speed in climbing to get up the route before the picks melt.

Next problem please.

T.
harold walmsley - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to blanchie14c:
> ...last year the BMC area meet invited any climbers interested in developing a crag to put forward their suggestions for discussion. No climbers took up the offer.

No-one suggested anything at the time but at a later meeting a question was asked if it would be OK to use a vegetated, currently unused and back-to-nature wall in Troy Quarry for dry tooling. The feedback over a couple of meetings was that it was basically considered acceptable as long as they avoided a specified area with some boulder problems of current interest. I have not heard any more since then.
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wilkie14c - on 29 Mar 2013
In reply to harold walmsley: I had heard whisperings of that, thanks for confirming it. It just goes to proove that climbers working with climbers works and works well. Good luck luck to the lads at troy too, did things the right way rather than getting on local classics.
I think its a perfect answer to the OP question too, Loads of choss pits to explore and hopefully for the toolers to create ther own classics

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