/ absailing off tat

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Craigyboy13 - on 20 Jun 2013
was out climbing the other day and we finished the climb get to the ab point and there was a new bit of cord in a thread. but had no mallion. so we ended up scrambling down a grade 2 instead.

but i couldnt understand why we couldnt just put the ropes ( we had 2 singles) throught the cord?

why can this not be done, or any thing else to consider about absailing off routes?

thanks :)
lithos on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

you can, the issues is that when pulling the ropes down, without a ring/krab/... the ropes will abrade and wear the tat. repeated pulling won't do it any favours. esp true if the same bit of tat is where your ropes run, and why you should inspect all of the tat for wear
Cameron94 on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13: As said you can. Just be wary abing off a piece that's already in place, if in doubt add your own and if you feel like solving the problem for others leave a biner too.
John1923 - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

You can.

but...

Remember that if you try and lower someone through a rope loop then the moving rope cuts the static rope in about 1-2 meters of lowering.

As long as only un-weighted ropes move through the cord then it's fine.
Bruce Hooker - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

Not only you can, but that's what you generally do. The only point to remember is that only you yourself are responsible for your own safety so, before you thread your rope though any slings in place you must check they are safe, if not put some of your own in place to abb off. It's your life and your responsibility.
ade sheffield - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:
And a couple of pieces of tat attached to the back of your harness don't weigh much to secure your descent at a later point !
Craigyboy13 - on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13: thanks for the replys. What thickness cord is generally accepted for
Tat?
gethin_allen on 20 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:
> (In reply to Craigyboy13) thanks for the replys. What thickness cord is generally accepted for
> Tat?

This is often debated on here, some would trust their lives to a battered pair of shoe laces whereas others would fear using anything less than 11 km rope.
Personally I'm OK with anything from a new bit of 5mm upwards. I carry a couple of meters of 6 mm cord when off in mountains and my chalk bag is on the same stuff.
Cameron94 on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13: I use 5,6&7mm but given the option it's normally the 6mm that I go for.
jkarran - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

> but i couldnt understand why we couldnt just put the ropes ( we had 2 singles) throught the cord?

If the cord is good (check it, all of it) and what it's attached to is good (again, check it carefully) you can. If you're not sure about any of it, back it up or change your plan.

The vitally important thing to remember is that you ab, not lower, the rope must nor move over the cord once loaded, that includes ensuring you feed both strands through the belay plate at the same rate as you descend. Clip a krab or something to the strand to need to pull to retrieve the rope, saves forgetting which is which. Oh and as usual make sure you can't accidentally go off the ends.

jk
jkarran - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

> thanks for the replys. What thickness cord is generally accepted for
> Tat?

I wouldn't equip a belay for regular use with anything less than rope, 8mm+. For bailing off mid route 5mm isn't too scary once you've checked for sharp edges, 6mm is a bit more reassuring. It usually boils down to whatever you have to hand that you're willing to both trust and lose.

jk
needvert on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

I probably have some 6mm in the form of two prussiks, or 7mm in the form of a cordelette. And a knife. I've been cutting up one of those, but in my region its rare for abseils to not be equipped with two bolts two rings around here.

kevin stephens - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

If no mailon is in place sometimes leave a karabiner, especially if it can clip more than one piece of tat. In the grand scheme of things the value of an old screwgate is small compared to an albeit small chance of ending my life (or that of the next person to use the increasingly abraded tat).

I find it rather sad that sometimes on returning later to find that someone has gleefully traded the "booty" for increased chance of death
Craigyboy13 - on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13: thanks again for the good responses. I wouldn't mind leaving a crab behind but like it was said I'm sure someone would just keep it for themselves.

How much are mallions?
lithos on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

as kevin said its a shame when people remove old screwgates left on ab tat, they are usually knackered and usually obviously left deliberately (tightened up as much as possible/glued shut)

maillons cost 2 or 3 quid (or more for really fat ones). Depends on how long you have been climbing, by the time you have been at it a few years you will have collected quite a few old 'leaver biners'. BTW people knick maillons as well (i dont buy the litter remark unless they remove the tat as well!)

check out cave shops or climbing shops, beware of DIY ones unless they are rated.....
http://www.berniescafe.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_43
Orgsm on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:
> (In reply to Craigyboy13) thanks again for the good responses. I wouldn't mind leaving a crab behind but like it was said I'm sure someone would just keep it for themselves.
>
> How much are mallions?


I just borrow a key ring off a nearby young lad, if there's no mail on, Fredt will understand ;-)
Al Randall on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:

> How much are mallions?

6 for 5.00 on Tewkesbury market. And they are CE marked before anyone queries it.
Cameron94 on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Al Randall: CE marked to fulfill which purpose?

Hanging a garden basket or hanging off a route?

Not trying to be arsey but genuinely interested.
ads.ukclimbing.com
pec on 21 Jun 2013
In reply to Craigyboy13:
When the ropes are pulled through the abseil tat the friction heats up the tat. This doesn't harm your ropes as the bit getting heated constantly moves on but the abseil tat gets heated in the same place. Potentially this could damage the tat, partially melting it and making it more brittle and weaker for the next abseiler.

Normally you'd see the sheath damage though you can't see the damage inside and you can only see the sheath damage if you actually look for it!
Personally I'd always be very wary of abseiling of a single piece of tat with no krab or maillon no matter how new it looked.

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