/ Excellent Everest Article

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Damo on 11 Jul 2013

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/mountaineering/Disposable-Man-History-of-the...

"A Sherpa working above Base Camp on Everest is... more than three and a half times as likely to perish than an infantryman during the first four years of the Iraq war... There’s no other service industry in the world that so frequently kills and maims its workers for the benefit of paying clients.

"Reinhold Messner... had harsh words for mountaineers who want it both ways. “Climbers who cross ladders set by Sherpas at the Khumbu Icefall,” he told the crowd, “then go up without ropes and claim to be special are parasites.”
PeterM - on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to Damo:

Good article and I like the Messner reference.
Milesy - on 11 Jul 2013
People who leave their brothers on mountains are parasites..... whoops.
supos - on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to Damo:

Overall quite an interesting read. The part about the Steck/Moro/Griffith episode, which is obviously the only part most people will read, is of course pure bullshit.
Lukem6 - on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to supos: I agree, its also rather presumptuous saying that they used the fixed ladders. the whole steck/moro/griffith episode could've been left out, unless they wanted to include the full story or just a link to it. Didn't mention any of the support Steck has given for the sherpas or the extra ropes fixed

apart from that paragraph the overall read is interesting and touches across various subjects
ebdon - on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to Damo: Interesting bit about the Mazano ridge - I had presumed it was done largely alpine style (hence the award) but this article seems to suggest they had ropes fixed most of the way? I get the impression the article is saying you can’t really climb hard, or indeed anything, in the Himalayas without getting someone to fix ropes which I’m not too sure about
MikeTS - on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to Damo:

In a way though the worst victims are porters, who may get treated really badly. I remember on a trek arriving in village below Mera Pk where they had a dead body. No-on knew who he was except that he got ill and was sent back down from the pass by the trekkers he was carrying for.
Damo on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to MikeTS:
> (In reply to Damo)
>
> In a way though the worst victims are porters, who may get treated really badly.

Yes, I agree. The porter situation for trekking and expedition approaches can be terrible and, in numbers, affects a lot more people than the Everest show.

Damo on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to ebdon:
> (In reply to Damo) Interesting bit about the Mazano ridge - I had presumed it was done largely alpine style (hence the award) but this article seems to suggest they had ropes fixed most of the way? I get the impression the article is saying you can’t really climb hard, or indeed anything, in the Himalayas without getting someone to fix ropes which I’m not too sure about

The article is not saying that. It's saying that *commercial expeditions* would not climb anything big without Sherpas. It's not talking about more traditional, smaller expeditions of regular, unguided climbers on other peaks.

As far as the Mazeno ascent? I thought it was a bit incongruous, but I don't know the exact nature of the relationship between them all when they went into it. It seems to me they were hired as 'help', which is incompatible with the Piolets d'Or thing, fwtw. On the other hand what Rick and Sandy did in the end was incredibly impressive. Could they have done it without their strong paid Sherpa friends? Unlikely.
Damo on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to supos:
> (In reply to Damo)
>
> .. The part about the Steck/Moro/Griffith episode... is of course pure bullshit.

In what way?

Damo on 11 Jul 2013
In reply to Lukem6:
> (In reply to supos) I agree, its also rather presumptuous saying that they used the fixed ladders. the whole steck/moro/griffith episode could've been left out,

Why is it presumptuous? They did use the ladders. Everyone does. That's why it's hypocritical to make a big deal about what you do above them, as if you don't need them. I don't think it should have been left out at all, not only because it will probably be seen in time as a catalyst for change. It was an example of people not respecting the work of the Sherpas in the icefall - one of whom died working there not long before the 'fight' - but still seeking glory on their backs. Ueli offering to fix ropes was not helping, it made things worse. Basic stuff.
Bellie - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Damo: Why is it hypocritical? 'as if you don't need them' In reviews of climbs I have read I don't recall climbers of independent teams dismissing anything that the sherpas and porters do in the mountain.

Henry Iddon - on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Damo:

I'm with Damo.
Rob Parsons on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Milesy:

> People who leave their brothers on mountains are parasites

A cheap, and nasty, shot.
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pneame on 12 Jul 2013
In reply to Damo:
A rather thougtful editorial in Alpinist:
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP43/43-11-sharp-end

It's a hugely complex issue - very redolent of the initial colonisation of "new lands" and similar to the huge gulf in the developed world between the super-rich and the genuinely poor.

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