UKC

Hi all,

Anyone else using a croll and ascension for self belaying? If so, how do you set-up a lower? I think I'm over-complicating things, or maybe it is just a pain in the arse!

I have a croll and ascension. I have tried them out at home but am having a nightmare releasing the croll and descending.

As per petzls instructions I am using the croll with a chest harness which works well (no slack in the system, moves smoothly and supports me well). The ascension is used through the top hole on a second rope as a back-up.

The problem is once the croll is weighted and I need to descend. I can't get the croll out of the system.

I'm putting my belay device on the back-up rope, before moving the ascension up with a footloop onto the main rope. I then weight this whilst taking up the slack on my belay device. This is perhaps where the problem is. I can't get high enough for the belay device to support me fully without slipping a bit (and rope stretch), which leaves some weight on the croll.

I've tried lots of options but am now knackered so thought I'd ask for any tips, or even better, pics, before I advertise them for sale!

In reply to Martin1978:


Put your belay device on the mainline, locked off, under the Croll, as close as possible.
Tie a Prussik on your mainline above the Croll with a sling to act as a foot loop. About the same height as your forehead.
Stand up, with your spare hand flick the Croll catch off and sit down.
Descend

*Practice at ground level... lots.

In reply to riddle: That seems to work a lot better, thanks. I'm practicing at ground level (got a bar so I can weight the system) at home to make sure I don't get stuck when I'm out :p


Cheers, Martin

In reply to riddle: Worked pretty well today, thanks. Needed some tinkering to stop the rope/devices interfering with each other but all in a good system (and more reliable than my belayer!)

Cheers, Martin

In reply to Martin1978:

Glad to help.

In reply to Martin1978:

Most times I can use the terrain to help me unload the ascender after adding the rap device. On those occasions when I'm hanging off the ascender I find it a bit easier if I add a short leash between my harness and rap device.

I thread a sling through my harness tie in points. Clip both ends of the sling to my rap device carabiner. Add my rap device to the main line directly below the ascender. Make a foot wrap with the main line and stand up just enough to unlock the ascender. The leash extends the rap device and allows a little bit of slack so I can stand in the foot wrap without the rap device holding me back.

In reply to wivanov: The terrain locally is overhanging mostly, which is the only downside with my current set-up (in that I usually have to descend, even just a little, to try and get back on the rock).

It took me a while to work out what you meant, but I understand now. Will keep it in mind if I drop my ascension (back-up and foot loop device) or prussic cords.

I enjoyed the peace and solitude of self-belaying once I'd got my first four or five climbs out of the way and learned to trust the system.

And it will really suit one local venue with plenty of hard, unprotected climbs

In reply to Martin1978:
Just a little tip. When you stand up to release the croll capture the rope in the crook of your elbow, upper arm down vertical and forearm horizontal across the ribcage. Keeps you nice and vertical with a lot less strain on the arms. When practiced enough you ll be able to dis engage before coming upright with your eyes closed
In your system how are you using the ascenion? I presume if you re using the top hole it is being dragged up.

In reply to Crag Pony: Cheers, sure I will get slicker the more I do it.

Yeah, I use the ascension hanging from the top hole, so it gets dragged up from my belay loop with two carabiners on a second rope (needs to be extended low enough that it doesn't lock when my main line is weighted and stretches). I have a foot loop permanently attached to the bottom loop and let that drag up.

The Croll is attached via a carabiner through the bottom hole and to the harness via a D maillon. It is then secured upright with a sling acting as a chest harness.

Trainers weight the rope enough and are easy to haul up should I need the rope or want to top-out and walk down in them.

When I weight the rope the croll takes the load. I then attach my belay device as described above, and also add a prussic back-up ready for abseiling (I leave this attached to my leg loop ready).

I then remove the screwgte and slide the ascension up the back-up rope. It already has a foot loop tied to it. I stand in the loop and release the croll (completely remove it from the rope).

This is the spot I still struggle with in my head, I know I'm safe on a locked-off belay device and prussic back-up but it still takes some getting your head around when you start undoing the lock-off!

I then release the ascension and hang it back on my harness/let it slide down freely with me.

I tried clipping the foot loop to my harness as a back-up for when I release the croll/belay lock-off, but figured that was overkill and figured I usually trust nothing more than a branch when abseiling :p


Works well I think. I'm glad I'm using my retired rope though, I wouldn't want to be doing this on a good rope as it does fur it up quite a bit!

In reply to Martin1978:
When using the ascension footloop try transfering it onto your main rope, after attaching and locking off the ab device. As this is under tension from yourself there will be no stretch to take up in the system and make for a more efficient change over. Just be sure its in reach when transfered to ab
I m trying to visualise how the croll/krab/D mallion would look, sorry if I m teaching granny to suck eggs. The croll is designed to sit flat on the bod. This means the D mallion must also be flat on the body as well. Caving harnesses are secured this way and for which the croll was designed. If the croll is flat to the body it'll run smoother.
Hope these thoughts help a little, but what you're doing is fine

In reply to Crag Pony: Thanks for the advice. Regarding the Croll, I use an oval carabiner to attach it to the D, so it sits flat and higher. The D is just like a second belay loop on my harness I guess (for redundancy).

Cheers, Martin