UKC

For alpine and Winter climbing I still use a pair of Koflach 'Clima' boots; my missus has (or rather: had) an old pair of Viva Softs.

A couple of weeks ago in the Alps, her boots spectacularly failed: after an overnight bivi, we had just started walking up a glacier when cracks appeared in the outers of _both_ boots; within about another five minutes, the cracks had grown so much that the boots were totally wrecked, and the soles had completely come off both.

On this occasion, we managed to get back down the the valley by Heath Robinson-style repairs using string and tape - but in other more serious circumstances, this episode might have been become a rescue job.

Having now had this experience first-hand, I _think_ I remember hearing of previous reports of brittleness and aging problems to do with old plastic boots. But I _think_ I remember that certain types of plastic (nylon? pebax?) were less prone to failure.

The boots that failed here were older than mine, and a cheaper model. My question now is: are my own boots (the 'Clima' model; at a guess about seven years old) at similar risk of blowing up? Does anybody have reliable information on this sort of thing? I would put this question direct to Koflach if I could find a contact point for them - but their website isn't too helpful.

Thanks in advance.

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield:

I have a pair of Climas about 14 years old. Hard parts of the outers still seem fine though the inners need constant patching up. But they've been retired now due to a general lack of confidence and a bargain pair of newer boots.

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield:

Dear Worried

Your boots should be OK and last a few more years. I have more concern with you carrying string and tape while on a glacier, what were you going to do to your wife?

Norrie

In reply to Li'l Zé:
remember reading somewhere (on here ?) that the test was to put the shells in a deep freeze overnight, then hit them with a hammer. If they shattered/ cracked, the plastic was too old. If nothing much happened they were OK for another year or two

ring any bells with any one else ?

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield:

I remember reading about this over 10 years ago, possibly in a BMC report. I've been to their web site & searched but cannot find the article.

I would suggest contacting the BMC and reporting the incident. Any info/insights into the incident would help other climbers to avoid the problem.

Regards, chris

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield:

Yeah, I definitely read about this, too, and about the freezer experiment.

From what I recall, the boots are particularly at risk after being left out at a bivi (they get a lot colder than when your feet are in them.

The newer plastic, I recall reading, is less prone to this problem, but can't remember when it changed.

Do remember wondering if I should put my Koflach shells in the freezer, then tap the toe with a hammer. But thinking this would ruin them, and for use in Scotland they wouldn't get this cold, certainly not with me wearing them, so wondering if it was a dumb thing to do.

In the end I bought some Sportiva Nepal Tops. Unless you're skint, or have specific reasons for needing plastics, modern leathers are so good, there's not going back, I reckon. A glimmer of good news if you plastics are at risk....

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield:

I tried the freez and hit test on my old pair of viv soft boots. They didn't do well. Got new boots now, the best thing I ever did.

In reply to Doug: The hammer test is advised for older plastics. Do it every year. Better to break your boots in the comfort of your own home than have them break at the foot of a classic route in prime conditions...

For TobyA, I have never received a hammer free from any source, neither do I recommend a specific type

Thanks for the replies: looks like the freezer/hammer test is the way to fo. Sounds a little drastic at first, but it's obviously better than having the boots let go half way up a route ...

And to Norrie:


One screw per person's standard practice for glacier travel, isn't it?

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield:

I used to use Scarpa Vega plastic boots. A few years ago one of them cracked into 2 pieces as I was taking it off at the end of a route on a small local waterfall and I was annoyed. I took them home and removed the inner boots. When I pulled the inner out of the good boot it split into two as well. I was gobsmacked! They both failed within about 2 hours, after 10 years or so of use. I'm not sure if this a good point in favour of plastic boots or not, maybe it's nice to know that they fail as a pair.

In reply to Vdiff Dave:


What colour were they: the old pink ones? If so, bugger - I have an pair of those which I got for some Alpine winter trips a number of years back, and which have been otherwise festering in the cupboard for a while. Better get hammering those fellers, too ...

I was equally gobsmacked in our case when both boots failed within minutes of each other. Seemed an amazing coincidence at the time.

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield: If it's any help, they make crap ski boots too. However, help is at hand. Nip along to you local Snow and Rock shop at the Sheffield Ski Village. I'm sure they'd be only too glad to help by either supplying Koflach's contact details or even forwarding them for you. If they don't help, try Rock & Run (again in Sheffield). If anyone refuses to help. Post their details here so we know not to buy from them.

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield:
The BMC Technical Committee examined a number of similar cases, when this problem first came to light back in 1996. Copies of the reports produced on these incidents are avilable free of charge to members and £3 each to non members. A list of all past incidents can be found on the Technical Section of the BMC website.

In very brief summary
Over the years Koflach have used 3 types of Plastic Shells. In order of their increasing resistance to ageing these are polyester-polyurethane, polyether-polyurethane and polyamide. Unfortunately manufactures catalogues rarely distinguish between these.
Any Koflach boot manufactured before 1990 (other than Clima Montana and Arctis Expedition) may have been made from polyester-polyurethane and should be considered at risk from brittle fracture at cold temps.
The problem is enhance by the effect of UV radiation
The reports outline a basic test(effectively putting your boots in the freezer then getting them out and hitting them with a hammer) to test for brittleness.
It may sound extreme but would you rather the boot failed in your kitchen or halfway up a route.
Technical Reports available from the BMC office.

In reply to Ian Hey:


Thanks very much for that information: I'm off to get a copy of the reports.

In reply to Dave Stelmach: I think you'll find Rock & Run in Sheffield closed about a year ago. The Ambleside branch is still running though (see above reply from Dave "Iceman" Hunter).

In reply to Minx: Thanks for the info. I haven't been there for about 2 years as I mostly shop mail order, or in Hathersage. Snow & Rock are still there though.

In reply to Dave Stelmach:

Oh great - negotiations with the commander in chief loom. I only decided yesterday that they'd last for another year. The question now is do I take a lump hammer or pin hammer to them (assured outcome or Government spin). Does anyone remember what Koflach blue-ish purple boots with thick loden liners (c.1987) were called and whether they're susceptible

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield: was with someone on a particularly cold bright September day in the Alps . His koflachs cracked like an easter egg. The crumpet straps kept it together till we got off the glacier.

btw SCARPA GUIDA leathers are still made and available in Switzerland so you can still get the best leather boot ever made if you can afford it!!

In reply to adrian botting:
ultras?

In reply to michaelw:

Ah that rings a bell, but those were the light grey ones too weren't they. I think mine were for warmer toes, but beyond that I cannot for the life of me remember.

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield: A friend of mine had his old Koflach viva softs suffer a similar catastrofic fate about ten yards from our hut one morning a few years ago. This problem is not limited to Koflachs though. All plastic boots more than a few years old should be freeze+hammer tested before use, although modern materials should last longer.

In reply to Worried, of Sheffield: My Scarpa Grintas (grey - from around 1990) also broke after about 9 seasons of regular use, fortunately in a non dramatic way - I could see cracks forming then little bits broke by the ankle cuff. So it happens to all older plastic boots. Nothing last forever.