UKC

A question regarding some stuff I want to do next year.

Normally, I can work up to 14 hour days or so on the hills, and that's about my comfortable limit. I'm beginning to think nutrition might have a bit to do with this.

So to anyone that can offer advice; if you were to do a c. 18 hour day, starting early morning, what would you eat? More specifically, would you shy away from sugar hits, or do them in conjunction with keeping the carbs topped up, etc... I could ask a million questions. I'm looking for a picture of the optimal diet.

I seem to end some days in exhausted desperation by hour 14-ish. Any thoughts on how far really good nutrition can take you?

Having twice done the 12 Mullardoch Munros across 2 days, I'm convinced that next time, I'd be better off doing them in one hit with a light rucksack. But nutrition might need work.

Cheers

In reply to kwoods: I find I try to limit my sugar hits. Lots of protein is good. I also make savoury bake bars to get non-sugary carbs. I make these by cooking and mashing a sweet potato, mixing in grated parsnip, oats, seeds and cinnamon, pack it down into a baking tray and bake it in the oven. Really filling without the sugar hit. This sort of stuff seems to keep me going on big days but our bodies are all different, so maybe a case of experimenting to see what works for you.

In reply to kwoods:

Now is this the same Kevin who said folks on this site are "old miserable gits with high opinions" on the walkhighlands site?

http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36896

are you looking for a high opinion: )

In reply to kwoods: i did a 200 km bike ride last summer, which took me about 12hrs. I ate loads of 'soft' figs which seemed to give me enough energy until towards the end of the day. At that point i was tired of consuming sugar. I think non-sugar carbs are the way to go. You've just got to accept that they will take longer to kick in and pace yourself accordingly. I like the savoury bake idea.

In reply to Mostro: i recomend this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1937715000
Lots of interesting info about sports nutrition in there.

In reply to kwoods: This is stuff that works for me, some might work for you but everyone's different.

Try 'trail mix' or google 'moose goo'! Flapjacks with dried fruit and chocolate. keeps you topped up with fast *and* slow release energy, sugar and fat, as well as fibre so you won't have problems. PoWs made it up during WW2 from Red Cross packs before they attempted an escape - a handful would keep them going for a day.

Hydration is really difficult but important - it helps your body break down and release the energy in food. superhydrate (drink loads) before you start and while you will feel bloated and pee lots first thing, you will have more energy later. If you end the day with yellow pee, you are dehydrated. Only when your pee is clear or nearly clear have you been drinking enough.

Take a couple of items of your favourite fruit, and maybe
a bag of crisps to boost your salt intake. These are an important psychological and taste break from the flapjacks, which can get samey.

Don't bother with energy drinks, they're just sugary squash. Isotonic drinks are just squash with a bit of extra sugar and salt - you can make your own (a pinch of salt to a litre of strongish squash is not detectable and aids absorbtion , also helping to replensih the salt you lose).

Eat a big breakfast before you set off. You're in scotland so plenty of eggs + grilled lean meat (bacon of black pud), not beans (too much wrong sort of sugar) toms (too acidic) or bread (bloating), avoid coffee (a diuretic) - instead have a tea or hot choc with a big bowl of porridge. it will sit lighter and release energy more slowly.

Organise your 'return' meal in advance, make sure its your favourite and get someone else to do it! The thought of you will keep you fast and motivated when you're starting to flag in the last couple of hours.

In the 2-3 days before the big day, eat healthily with plenty of fibre from fresh fruit and veg - it'll help clean your lower internals out so you're carrying less nasty old rotting food in your various organs - they all need to be in tip top condition just like your muscles.

The list is endless!

In reply to girlymonkey: that sounds nice, can you post a receipe?

In reply to Mostro:

Christ, I don't want to think of the effect that had on your bowels!

I was thinking about hill food the other day. I have a bad habit of fueling myself entirely on chocolate and biscuits throughout the day, with a cheese or meat sandwich for lunch. Not only does it get a bit dull, I get cravings for something savoury, or containing fresher fruit or veg. I'll be watching this thread with interest.

In reply to kwoods:

A few nice sandwiches, pork pie and a nice flask of coffee or tea should do the trick.

In reply to kwoods:

I don't do 18h days but do do fairly long ones. Up to 10 000ft of ascent, 20 miles, that sort of thing.

I take a mixture of Snickers, gels and flapjacks and probably some Lucozade sport.

Snickers are the staple, gels for when you start flagging and a flapjack or two for "lunch".

I generally guzzle a bottle of Lucozade about half an hour before starting having grazed on biscuits on the drive up the road.

Years ago when I did a lot of winter climbing I just used to buy a bag of fun sized Mars bars or Snickers and stuff my pockets with them. They were perfect for getting an energy hit at each belay.

In reply to Removed User:

One flask of Mummery's blood is all I need.

In reply to kwoods:

My Mum's flapjack. Laced with Bolivian marching powder :-0

In reply to kwoods: I go to the home made flap jacks as well, usually use a pound of butter, big handful of raisins, sultanas and lots of chopped dates and a few nuts, little bit of flour, baking powder and a little treacle. Some bits of chocolate make all the difference, cadburys caramel is good.

I never get bored of that when I'm out, i'll sometimes take some cooked sausages in a zippy as well and some sweets.

Everything Alex said was spot on, especially hydrating and eating well before you set off.

In reply to kwoods:
Load up with carbs a few days before then cereal breakfast, cheese and peanut butter wraps and cereal bars throughout the day with maybe some kendal mint cake for energy bursts when needed (hills etc).
Plenty of liquid and thats about it if im walking.

Running? Then bit different.

Just going back to high calorie / low GI foods again, particularly as oats and peanuts are being mentioned.

Oats absorb water in the body, so be wary of eating dry oats (i.e. in flapjacks) and increasing your water consumption a bit to compensate.

Peanuts contain masses of energy (oil and protein) but if they are whole or even broken up a little, most of the energy will not be digested because they're very tough - smooth peanut butter will give you 4x the energy release because your body will digest it much more effectively.

These two foods are however, amazingly good for your body during very long periods of activity, they are light and high calorie.

Figs are a good source of fibre but personally just a couple would be plenty!

In reply to kwoods:

Wheatabix - that's fuel for big days

In reply to alexgoodey: I don't have a recipe a such, I just make it up really. Basically peel and roughly chop some sweet potato, and stick it in the microwave for a while til it is soft and can be mashed. Once mashed mix through some grated parsnip or carrot and oats and seeds. You don't want the consistency to be too dry or it doesn't stick together when cooked, but you can stick quite a lot in. Flavour it with cinnamon, or ginger, or anything else you like really, and pack it into a baking tray. Bake it til the top feels like it's cooked. Pop it out the tray to cool or it can be a bit soggy. Hope that's enough detail, sorry I can't be more specific!

In reply to kwoods: I must register a vote for malt loaf- longlasting, indestructible, tasty & cheap.

In reply to alexgoodey: coffee is fine.. drink water as well. I drink it before 100k's.

I think eat normal food. Sandwiches, flapjacks, fruit. Just a range of food then things like mountain mix to keep you going.

Yoghurt coated bananas/brazil nuts!!

Nutrition is vital, often on long routes it is possible to sense your blood sugar level. I did some fairly long routes over Dartmoor and Sennybridge in the summer and ate packs of mixed nuts (as these are 600Kcal per 100g), one nut per 2 minutes of movement.

However on one 30 mile route on Dartmoor this strategy backfired, having brought 6 packs of yoghurt coated bananas I was forced to eat 8 bananas on route and subsequently felt so sick at the end I struggled to stand up!

Body fat is also important. It's more efficient to carry 100g of fat than 100g of food in a rucksack.

In reply to Removed User:

You have come to the same conclusion as me - mars bars and snickers are all the nutrition you need for sustained exertion, they're cheap too.

I am partial to crisps and hardboiled eggs in the winter though.

In reply to Gav M:


Crisps with gloves, doesn't do it for me.

In reply to kwoods:

Porridge for breakfast.
Malt loaf & peanut butter for lunch.
Cereal/yoghurt bars and boiled sweets on the hoof.
If wild camping over a few days:
Couscous and chorizo in the evening followed by custard and cake.

In reply to kwoods:
Eat whatever you can stand to eat when at the end of a long day, personally its savoury stuff for me with the odd sweet boost at the end of the day when things are running down.
Eat, drink and pee every hour, add suncream if needed, thats what I have found to be efficient, big meal stops dont work for me on a long day. If you dont have a Camelback, get one !

In reply to kwoods: I sometimes struggle when I'm moving fast and pushing myself to keep on top of nutrition. In these cases having something that is easy to eat when nauseated is good. Things I like include

Houmous bagels - plenty of fat in the houmous and the bagels are solid meaning the don't go to bits in your rucksack

Squashy cake - not surprisingly a favourite with the kids. Take a Lyle's Golden Syrup or Jamaican Ginger cake, prick the packet with a knife and squash the whole lot flat with a cookery book. Chop into 1/3rds and wrap in clingfilm. 300 calories per slice and easy to eat when feeling *bleh*



And I'm definitely going to make some of those veggie bars, they sound fab!

In reply to kwoodsoad up with a good cooked breakfast (but keep away from the grease), keep well hydrated throughout the day, wee sugar hits can act as boosters while you are walking but shouldn't be your main source of energy. For meals, I find that ryebread sarnies are good, ideally with an animal/fish based protein. Hope this helps.

In reply to kwoods: my staple is crunchy peanut butter and banana sandwiches! With A couple of gels for busts, snickers and flapjacks for snacks. Also drop a nuun tablet in my water to help re hydrate

In reply to kwoods:

Thanks everyone for loads of info! Much appreciated.

In reply to kwoods:

Isotonic Carbohydrate (maltodextrin) drink made up from powder (Hi5 or GO).
Mixture of peanuts and winegums.
Maybe something more substantial, as much to look forward to at a break as much as needing it.

In reply to kwoods:

just eat.. anything.. its about what you can stomach.. then refine it.