/ Winter Trousers
Time to upgrade the leg wear - rough budget £100, normally warn on their own unless its really minging then they will be paired with either thermals or goretex. But would much rather wear them on their own. Looking at using them for big winter days in the mountains and winter climbing so durability is a big factor.
I've looked at and tried on Rab Vapour Rise Guide and the Montane Terra thermostretch pant. Both fit me well enough
Any others I should be considering?
Any thoughts on the above two?
I can save you some time and money here. A lot of UKC users including myself are using these:
They are great, water resistant, fairly wind proof (although the can be a bit drafty in very strong cold winds), bomb proof and £40 from decathlon. I kid you not but these are as good as any of the other offerings from other manufacturers at many times the price.
in full agreement with the chaps above
Simond Breeks can't be beaten at that price whilst I dont use them myself
My Climbing pal has had a pair past 2 Years Bombproof nothing worse than Harpooning ur nice £300 Salopettes
In your shoes I'd be choosing between the Simond and the Montane Thermostretch, the specification of which I really like the look of. The sad part of me that tends to steer away from budget options would have me trying the Montane first but who am I to argue with so many?
Have you tried the Montane ones on? I do like the thought that you could potentially dispense with thermals and the hardshell outer. More free movement and a lighter pack sounds like a winning combination. You might make me green with envy next time I'm huffing and puffing up the Cuillin behind you.
But £40 is hard to argue with...
Decathlon link : http://www.decathlon.co.uk/mountaineering-trousers-id_8010075.html
Decathlon link : http://www.decathlon.co.uk/mountaineering-trousers-id_8010075.html
I did go skiing and I think they did just but you'll need to check to be sure
I own 4 pairs of soft shell trousers some of which cost 3 times the price. These are the best at shedding water, keeping out the wind and are generally really good.
To the OP, i'd go with a mid weight pair of softshell trousers and layer them with leggings. Rab make pretty good gear so i'd look at their range other than the VR stuff. The Torque pant looks good, and comes in darker colours if you don't like the bright red one.
They fit easily over my old school Scarpa T2 tele boots. Not sure about fatter freeride boots for example but probably. See the comment at the bottom of this http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.fi/2013/03/simond-alpinism-pants-review.html
Cheers guys, will pop over to Decathalon to try some on, just hoping the local one (Coventry) has some in.
has anyone any experince with these?
I agree. I have a pair. They seem pretty bombproof having endured a full winter of crampon abuse. I don't find them the most stretchy but the more rigid fabric in the thigh and general quality of sewing give them a massively better cut and hang than the normal guide pants. You could wear them socially, even, dare I say it, on a date ;-)
That chimes with my experience. Not quite stretchy enough for higher grades - so not a problem for me then ;-), lacking a thin fleece liner and tending to wet out in a deluge causing "raw thigh". The massive positive of never worrying about shredding £200 worth of Goretex Proshell or Polartec with my clumsy cramponing means I'm going to persevere with them for another season and get my money's worth. This time with thigh length thermals underneath to protect the thigh without restricting knee articulation. I've also renewed the DWR which used to work fine.
> has anyone any experince with these?
They are membrane based, something I personally avoid in softshell.
Looked online and Coventry don't have my size in store at the moment.
Might look at Haglof but I think they might be a bit over budget.
I can get the Rab for around £99 and the Montane for about £70.
Besides the excellent Simond Alpinism trousers, you might also look at Decathlon's Quechua Forclaz 900 Warm trousers, currently on discount at £40. They're a similar fabric to the Simonds, but with a fluffier inner face, and they're a closer cut, and more 'trouser-like' than the Simonds, which are closer to a salopette.
Double, articulated knees, four zipped pockets, hip belt, shock-corded ankle adjustment. Decent stretch fabric. I'd have preferred a gusset crotch, but the stretch fabric will hopefully mean that isn't a problem.
I've only just picked up a pair so can't comment on longevity or real-world performance yet, but my kit spidey-sense tells me they'll be pretty good.
p.s. as for the store not having them in, whilst checking to see if the men's were discounted to £30 like the women's, I got into a bit of a discussion with the guy in the store about how great they are, and he said, essentially "we don't really stock much climbing stuff". I tried to point out that they're also great for skiing, and how well regarded they are here, but didn't seem to get through.
So, if the price suddenly hikes to £99 and they get rolled out nationwide, it may be my fault...
They do online orders, you know... >;-)
The more I read into membranes, the less I'm convinced that there are so many ways of making them, hence not so much of a performance range as price might suggest. There are other ePTFE membranes besides Goretex for example - I suspect the stuff Decathlon uses is actually perfectly good generic fabric that will be chemically rather similar to Powershield or Windstopper etc.
Simond Alpinism troosers. Total bargain.
Not done much research in that area, quickly googled this though (not looking to get in to a lengthy discussion here as its just not something I'm really that well read on)
My experience is there is massive difference between a breathable 10 quid pac a mac and Event, quite how you compare the stuff in between is another matter.
I bought a pair of the decathlon trousers last year following a similiar thread. For £39 you can't go wrong and they are well designed and warm and just as good as many of the ones I was looking at for two to three times as much money.
All good food for thought.
Might take a chance on the sizing of the Simond ones and order a pair online.
But the Montane do fit really well and only £25 more.
Also on the bargain side of things I got a pair of softshell trousers in a Hawkshead store a couple of years ago for about forty pounds, they have been excellent hard wearing and super value, not maybe what you want for winter climbing but i mention it as another cheap but good bit of hill kit.
The Forclaz 900 Warm trousers do not have a membrane; they're a pure nylon/elastane soft shell. I bought a pair last week...
I know Decathlon's names are repeated very similarly for different products, but not even the Winter trousers are membraned:
Sure you're not thinking of the Simond Alpinism 700 trousers?
BTW, the Mark Verber article is about ten years old (but still useful). Event is now sold as an own-brand fabric, for instance, MHW use it as their Dry Q fabric.
Sorry I think I must have confused with the jacket:
I already own the Alpinism Pants, Man, but I think I'll take a look at the Forclaz 900 warm troos when I'm next in there.
It would be very interesting to see non-membrane softshells mapped on the same graph (see pdf mid thread). How much better than new Goretex Pro (ePTFE) would they perform? Undoubtedly better (at breathing), but by how much?
All goretex (and eVent and some others) are ePTFE. e just stands for expanded, if its not expanded it's not breathable, it's just frying pan liner.
> All goretex (and eVent and some others) are ePTFE. e just stands for expanded, if its not expanded it's not breathable, it's just frying pan liner.
Of course, but, as the PDF makes clear, all membranes are not the same. Goretex alone comes in at least 3 flavours currently. I'd just like to see some data comparing the breathability of, say, new Pro vs non-membrane softshell. We know who the winner is. But by how much?
well I can compare against event and stretchy soft shells are A LOT more breathable it wouldnt be at all a close run thing.
The Forclaz 900 Warm trousers are nice. Really comfortable, warm, wind resistant. So nice I went and ordered a grey pair today. And even the staff found their naming confusing; she nearly ordered a pair of Forclaz 900 Hiking trousers, which aren't the same thing... The only non-membraned jacket seems to be a lightweight soft shell thing.
I've been looking for a decent pair of soft shell troos for some time, but Schoeller Dryskin is damned expensive. And not actually that wind proof. The 900 Warm seem much more wind resistant, and the face fabric seems robust and fairly water repellent. Only time will tell how long that continues...
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