UKC

Hi. Just wondering, is there a requirement for cyclists to cycle on the road margin? Had a knob on a L moped (illegally waiting in the bike space at traffic lights), yell at me for, basically being in his way as I was not cycling on the road edge. I had positioned myself, in the cycle space / box (whatever its called) in front of the car at the head of the traffic queue.

I would then normally veer to the edge to give the cars space but when I did, this knob was trying to undertake me so I had to veer out, just as he was switching to try to overtake on the outside!

In reply to Flinticus: No there isn't. It's suggested that you actually ride c. 1m out from the edge of the road because of the danger of riding in the gutter. As you say, the moped should not be over the ASL. Let's hope he doesn't have an accident. That would be dreadful.

In reply to Flinticus:

The moped rider clearly needs to keep those L plates for a while longer. He was in the wrong by being in the Advanced Stop Zone for starters. The rest is just him being a bit of atw*t.

In reply to Toby S:
Eventually found this link from britishcycling.org.uk.

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/cycletraining/article/ct20110110-cycletrai...

I hope to meet that moped rider tomorrow.

In reply to Flinticus:


A cyclist did that to me once. He apologised at the next lights for his actions which was nice. At the end of the day, if you want to stay safe on the roads, just let a-holes like this go. The legalities of the situation have no bearing whatsoever if you end up sat in a hospital bed for 6 months or worse still, a damp box in a deep hole.

In reply to ByEek:
I'm down for a sky burial anyway.

All other things being equal, I would say the legalities may have a bearing if you did end up in hospital: maybe you would have grounds for pursuing a case against the moped rider & the knowldege that you didn't put yourself there through illegal or dangerous cycling.

In reply to Flinticus: Can't recall the exact quote but I read in the paper yesterday about a coroner who's been looking at cyclists' deaths in London saying something along the lines of "cyclists need to be educated to ride nearer the middle of the lane to stay safe".

In reply to andy:
Well, having looked throught the (entire) web, there does seem to be a lot going on in London to promote cycling and make it safer. Could do with that here in Glasgow. I've not seen much progress (maybe none: the amount of new roads and alterations I've seen with no accommodation for cyclists...)over the years I've been biking in Glasgow. Maybe we need better weather and a mayor who cycles?

In reply to Flinticus:

Promoting yes, but over the last week London's cycle superhighway as been blasted by a coroner and a senior police officer as 'an accident waiting to happen', so safer is questionable.

In reply to Flinticus: god yeah I ride well out from the kerb.. i also run out from the kerb.. the edges of the road are always in a bad state..

In reply to Flinticus:

You'll also avoid potholes and get less punctures

Theory goes that women ride less agreessively in London so more prone to be in blindspots so victims in turning left accidents. Guys go well in front and out from the kerb.

In reply to Flinticus:


Agreed. But my point is why go to hospital in the first place on a point of law?

In reply to Flinticus:

As far as I've been taught, 'Primary' position (max visibility & road presence) is slightly left of the centre of your lane, 'secondary' (letting motorists past) is 1m from the edge of your lane (kerb or white lines).

I've seen a motorist in Oxford (read: chav in a Fiesta) have a massive go at a cyclist for riding in the middle of the lane, preventing him from overtaking. In fact the cyclist was doing 30mph between the lights on Parks Road, and therefore the motorist was breaking the speed limit to try and overtake him. The arguments went "You were in the middle of the lane, you should be at the side" and "I was doing the speed limit, you had no right or need to overtake" back and forth until the lights went green.

In reply to lummox:


As others have also mentioned already, further is better if possible. I think 1m doesn't really feel like much distance in real life.


I thought, in London at least, mopeds and motorbikes were allowed in the ASL box, and bus lanes. Generally I don't feel aggrieved if they are, since they share some of the same vulnerability of bikes, but it's nice if they don't overtake really close

In reply to stewieatb:
I tend to ride in the nice smooth bit that a cars near side wheel would cover. Means that cars have to move position to overtake and therefore have to be concious there is a bike to pass rather than not moving if you are close to the curb. Also you get a smoother ride and all the other cars have picked up any puncture material. Finally it gives you room ti dive in towards the curb if someone is driving like atw*t.

In reply to Flinticus: as far as I know they are fair game and are to be raced at every opportunity (a bit like mobile strava segments) !!! just watch out for the 125cc ones , they take some catching !!

In reply to Flinticus:

Mopedder was just a kn*b, obviously.

I take secondary position (about 3 foot out) except when I'm approaching a junction, narrowing etc where it's unsafe for a car to squeeze past, where I take primary (mid-lane).

Never ride in the gutter, you've got nowhere to go if someone does something stupid.

In reply to andy:

Again, isn't there evidence that suggests that female riders are more likely to be killed, especially by HGVs, due to being less assertive in taking the lane?

Stay safe. Take the lane.

In reply to stewieatb:

There's a breed of motorist who, when confronted with a cyclist showing the audacity to cycle IN FRONT of his CAR, loses all sense of speed and space. How dare the cyclist slow them up, even though the cyclist may be doing the same speed as the car in front of them. It is of course the drivers legal duty to get ahead by any means, then as soon as the traffic inevitably slows again, position the car to make further progress by the cyclist impossible.

In reply to Trevers:
Also the one that whose time is so valuable that they have to overtake a bike only to have to violently turn left

In reply to Flinticus:

When I used to cycle lots I had no qualms about putting myself right in the centre of the lane in places where it would be dangerous to have a car try to overtake. For example on busy roundabouts, in traffic moving the same speed as me, at junctions, etc. Otherwise, the default position is about 1 to 1.5m from the kerb.

You were perfectly correct to sit in the middle of the red box and the moped driver still needs to learn a thing or two. Your safety is much more important than a few seconds off someone else's journey.

In reply to Jimbo C:
This, on a section of road, in Glasgow city centre, where there are traffic lights every hundred metres or so and, at least on my route and for the section of road, a bike will be the faster means of getting about.

riding into Richmond one day a big old jag nearly swiped me off the secondary position about a metre from thje curb, assertive not aggressive. Obviously as this was london, I caught him and while he was stationary went past him on the bike lane. The traffic picked up again and the bike lane vanished so I moved back to my metre position, same jag again nearly took me out so I called him a knob. Again coming up to Richmond bridge I filtered past him and headed up the bridge. This time I took the primary position - I knew he was coming up behind and didnt want him overtaking me especially as the oncoming traffic was busy and there was no safe space for him to overtake, he was leaning out of his car window screaming at me to move over. I told him to f off and decided sod you, slowed my speed down and gently rode up the bridge to the mini roundabout.

I write this as this was when I really learned a lot about road position, I checked my legality after this and my positions was as advised. I'm sorry I held him up by a couple of minutes and really sorry I swore at him, there might have been children on the bridge, sorry kids.

In reply to ti_pin_man:

That made my day. Well played!

In reply to Flinticus:

That Bikeability stuff looks absolutely spot-on. Shame their useful 3-level instruction manuals are rather well hidden on the website, although easily found by Google:

'bikeability level course manual'