UKC

Someone suggested to me that I go for my IML recently. Having looked at the syllabus, course content, and scope of the award, am I missing something???

Is it basically your ML (Winter and Summer versions....) for not in the UK? The only real additions I could see were:

Speed navigation test (orienteering? Being fitter? Running a bit when in the hills?)

How to call for help using different means such as huts and emergency beacons (is this outdated due to almost universal mobile coverage these days? And could this not be something you just found out about rather than need to be assessed about?)

Difficulties with foreign languages (though I don't see anything in the assessment that looks at your skills or helps you improve other than the advice to use crib cards or a phrase book!!)

Legal/rescue situation in other countries (which anyone doing anything outdoors in another country would check before going??)

Seriously, am I missing something here, or is it just an expensive training and assessment course evaluating your common sense? (And yes, I know there's a massive practical element to it, but does having your ML or Winter ML not cover this already!?)

Any thoughts appreciated, especially from those that have done the course in terms of how useful you think both the course was as well as how much it has added to your work or professional skills.

Cheers,
Gordon

In reply to peebles boy:

Isn't some of it about having a qualification that's recognised in other countries - particularly, I think, some areas of France where you need a recognised qualification to work legally?

Hinted at in this article
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1911

In reply to peebles boy: You might be underestimating the role of altitude on the continental mountains (as Europeans often underestimate the role of the weather in British mountains). This is very different environment and people can react very surprisingly to the effects of altitude, even at only 2500m. I guess IML helps you to be prepared to the higher altitudes that are quite common in Europe.

This is the first thing that springs to my mind, but obviously a lot of things are different between UK and the rest of the world. Land access, guide liability, length of routes...

In reply to drolex: Indeed. However the basis of leading in the mountains, i.e. the core of what you do is utterly unchanged. You still need the same personal skills, navigational skills, weather forecasting ability etc whether you are in the alps or in the UK. As you quite rightly point out our weather is worse, and the navigation we need is often at a higher level unless you get off the beaten track in europe. So what I don't understand is why the system isn't MLS, MLW, then IML with the extra bolt ons you require. It does seem ludicrous that effectively to get WML and IML you have to do two parallel courses... Indeed WML would seem to be at just as high a standard as IML, so surely the sensible thing to do would be to get MLS and WML recognised in europe on the addition of the IML bolt on...

In reply to mike kann: Exactly. I have MIA and am just finishing WML but still need to start over again to get an IML.

I know an IML from the "old scheme" who ot he award without holding a WML.

All seems a bit unfair.

I would happily do the extra bits to get an IML but cant afford the whole process.

In reply to drolex:
>

Agreed - but surely there's no way all the different countries in the world and their corresponding access/liability/route factors etc can be assessed as part of IML, and it comes back to personal prior preparation before any trip/guiding experience?

In reply to mike kann:


Or more so - the link from Carolyn above mentions being able to take folks on "snow covered rolling Nordic hills" with your IML, whereas your WML (UK) covers all hills in UK, rolling or otherwise!!

In reply to peebles boy:

Its much more to do with the law prevalent in the Alps than anything else. The laws of France, Italy and Switzerland basically state that in order to "WORK" as a mountain/trek leader in their respective countries you need as a minimum an IML and be a member of "BAIML" note this for for leading treks/hikes etc and nothing to do with guiding up the larger mountains, for which you would need to be a BMG (British Mountain Guide) Some UK companies obviously try to get around this by calling their guides/ML's "Tour Leaders" But you get caught actually leading a group on a Trek in the Alps without your BAIML membership, then the Authorities can and sometimes do have your guts for garters! Further more the relevant authorities are tightening up in this area of us UK ML's and so called tour leaders coming over and working for peanuts without the legal qualifications which would give them the right to work there. So basically if you're looking to get ML work in the Alps then do your IML, if you're thinking elsewhere then it's hardly worth it as no where else really cares about it (so far).

In reply to peebles boy:

No, but I guess it might be good for some people to have their eyes opened to the fact that the world is quite diverse. It might be obvious for you but some other people can be quite thick. Just telling them that it is different out there is a revelation to some.


Preparation and experience I would say. I understand that the scheme assesses your experience abroad?

Note that I am far from being an expert on ML schemes (I know the French stuff which might or might not be related), I just say what comes out of my hat. So probably a lot of cr*p in my wise words.

In reply to peebles boy:


Why did they suggest that you go for it? That might help decide if you are missing something?

In reply to Martin1978:

As a "next step" qualification (MIA not realistic at the moment). Vague plans of spending extended length of time in the Alps too.

Sounds as though it really is more of a "legal" qualification though, as pass and peak states above. Interesting to see that authorities are tightening up on this; similar thing happened a few seasons back with UK qualified mountain bike guides operating in France - the French authorities (in the same way as UK ML v IML) said you needed to do French qualification, gave a couple years grace, then started spot checking guided groups of bikers, and in some cases arresting the UK guide on the spot for not having the French biking qualification.

Something to mull over anyway, need to decide if the financial risk/potential work reward stacks up!!!

In reply to peebles boy:
I did the summer part of the IML a couple years ago and thought the assessment was utterly pointless. We walked through the Alps on paths and were asked a few questions. However I did get a few useful things out of the training course at PyB the year before.
I decided not to do the winter part of the IML at all as the snowshoeing thing is wholly irrelevant to my work... and it seems like blatant moneygrabbing to ask people who may only want to work abroad in summer, and may have their WML and plenty experience, to pay thousands of pounds to learn to snowshoe before they have a formal qualification to lead in summer.
As someone else points out there is a big problem with the IML/WML discrepancy. I would not trust an IML to do anything in Scotland in winter, whether rolling or not, and as an employer of people in the industry I would always go for a WML over an IML.
In my opinion there are quite a few good things about the EU, but one thing that needs sorted out is the blatant local and national protectionism that goes with jobs in the outdoor industries in the name of "safety".
It may sound like a rant, but I'm quite an experienced mountain ranter, with an MIC, over 300 ascents in the Andes on over 60 expeditions, plus hundreds of mountain days, summer and winter, in the Alps, Asia, Norway and USA.
John Biggar

In reply to peebles boy: If you start on the process you'll find its quite different from the UK Awards. The IML meets the standards of UIMLA and from the BAIML site:
"UIMLA was created to encourage the development of common standards for professional mountain leaders throughout Europe and worldwide. It was drawn up in recognition of the growing requirement for tour guides to work in areas where the full alpine climbing and teaching skills of a Mountain Guide are not needed but where skilled mountain leadership is necessary for clients to enjoy journeys through remote mountain areas in safety and confidence. The original agreement set out common standards for training, experience and certification of mountain leaders in EU member countries. This grew and expanded to reflect the role of such mountain leaders worldwide, leading to the establishment of UIMLA as an independent body in 2004. Holders of the UIMLA International Mountain Leader’s qualification and carnet are trained and assessed by member organisations in their own country to a demanding common syllabus."
The Summer ML and Winter ML are specifcally designed to meet the needs of UK terrain. The IML takes into account different medical, cultural, navigational and technical aspects that we don't commonly see here in the UK. E.g. dealing with altitude, use of very different map types and other navigational concerns, an element of the use of simple fixed gear on marked routes, dealing with emergencies outside of the UK and very different snow conditions (the UK Winter Award is heavily focussed on use of axe and crampons and British avalanche considerations, the IML is more focussed on rolling 'nordic' type terrain, snowshoeing and alpine snowpacks). In particular the level of environmental and cultural knowledge expected is in a different league to the UK Awards.
The UK awards were created and are run by a UK based body who review the syllabus and oversee courses. The IML is run to a standard that a group of different Nations have decided collectively is appropriate for foreign nationals having to deal with conditions in their country and their own nationals working overseas.
Apples and oranges. Both are round but on closer examination they are quite different.

I looked into the IML and decided on doing my WML training instead. Really didn't seem like a good investment of my meagre funds. However, as someone who has worked in the school expedition industry I know that LEA's will normally only sign off overseas trekking trips if run by World Challenge type expeditions, UNLESS you hold an IML, in which case with the appropriate insurance and paperwork you can organise and run overseas school trips using your IML ticket which could be very very lucrative....