UKC

I fancy a CX bike for winter road and light off road use. Been looking at a few, within budget it seems I can get Ultegra with cantilever brakes or 105 with disk. I have no experience of disk brakes, but my initial thoughts are extra faff, more weight and basically over kill. Does anyone want to try and change my mind?

In reply to The New NickB:

Having took up racing cross this season, I would definitely recommend getting disc brakes!

Better mud clearance. Actually being able to stop when you pull the levers.

In reply to The New NickB:
I'm not a skinny wheel sadist* but I would say that if you plan to spend time off road in winter then tyre clearance is a major factor which means disks make a lot of sense. Plus if you put a bend in a wheel then you've got more chance of being able to roll home on disks.


* My delicate constitution requires a bit more padding

In reply to The New NickB: I'm in two minds on this, but then I've never tried a cross bike with canti brakes. I've got BB5 discs on my Boardman and they are ok but require way more maintenance than the hydraulics on my old hybrid or on my MTB and can lose power easily enough - (pad wear? cable stretch? Not sure). But sometimes you do want as much braking as you can get, the cantis on my road bike work well but not sure if they would still if everything was caked in mud or very wet.

In reply to The New NickB: I can state without a shadow of doubt that old style canti's are pap. I've tried old MTB canti's, and also froglegg style canti's and they are equally crap. In the end I bought Cane Creek levers with extra pull to fit v-brakes which are much much better apart from when your rim is really wet, when their performance takes a nose dive too. They wear your rims out especially when its wet and gritty. So that'll be most of the time you're on a cross bike then. Discs are neater, away from the water and dirt so don't lose performance, leave you with more mud clearance, allow you to use stronger rims that have been designed for tubeless tyres especially when you look at the skinny 29'er rims - if I could start again with my bike that's what I'd do. I also know that certain 105 sti levers can now cope with the cable pull required for MTB disc calipers which are much more effective than their road version counterparts...

In reply to mike kann: Of course if you just cycle on the road then none of these things will be a consideration other than make sure you buy at least mini v brakes... the froglegg style especially with carbon forks can leave you with serious brake judder.

In reply to The New NickB: Having been cx racing for only a season and being utterly useless, I'm convinced my performances would be even worse if I had cantis on the bike.

In reply to lummox: mainly because you'd be a)hanging out of a tree after crashing b)going slowly because of the bit of tree dragging behind your bike after having had a "near miss" or c)be in hospital after having not made a corner and having hit a tree.

In reply to The New NickB: I personally like the look of the genesis day one alfine 8, prefer last years orange colour to this years blue, but the price and the weight have both come down this year (£999).
I would have one has a winter bike as I don't do cx yet, but thought I'd get you looking outside of the usual box!

In reply to mike kann:

still..... could be worse....

i have no experience of CX other than getting soundly thrashed up hill by CX riders in early mtb races, but the arguements for disc brakes for me are compelling enough that when i eventually replace my aging hybrid commuter bike it'll probably be with a cx/tourer style bike... with dics...

any comments on faff with disc brakes i'd like to remind people how sh1t canti's / v-brakes are in comparison. and the fact that i used to go through vbrake pads on my old mtbs every 3 months or so... and rims last 2 years at most... my current bike gets new pads once a year on average. YMMV

In reply to mike kann:
Last year I used a Kona Jake the Snake with a rack and panniers to get between the mountains over a four month period. Apart from the issue of poor braking in other than ideal conditions, rim wear was also a concern, as you have said, when it was wet and gritty.
Does anyone care to share their thoughts on the relative reliability and ease of maintenance, whilst out in the remote, for rim vs disc brake set ups?

In reply to The New NickB:

For comparison the brakes on the two bikes I looked at yesterday were Shimano BR-CX75 (disc) and Avid Shorty 4 (canti).

In reply to The New NickB: Cantis need constant adjusting cos as you wear them down, you need to cinch them tighter to the wheel, which angles the brak surface, so you get less of the surface in contact with the rim, so it screeches and you get uneven wear, leading to more adjustment. I find disk brakes ideal on my CX, especially for off road. I find disk brakes are definitely less faff than cantis.

Disks, no brainer.

Once set up they barely need anyhting doing in comparison to rim brakes. Oh and they will stop you in mud which is kind of their point. As for weight I dont think you'll seriously notice.

In reply to The New NickB:

I have a number of retro mtbs all with canti brakes and yes they require fettling but once set up I have no issues braking, even a disc caked in mud has poor performance

True discs have advantages but they are heavier, cable discs would be fine on xc bike the bb5 or bb7 work a treat

In reply to woollardjt: Yep - canti's or V's on an MTB with heavier gauge tubing that doesn't flex like a horny yoga teacher when you're really pulling hard on the levers are fine. On CX bikes with carbon stays or thin wall tube they're a frigging disaster as far as I can work out... in the day they made brake boosters for a reason... CX bikes are much closer to old skool MTB's than what passes for an MTB these days...

In reply to The New NickB:

Discs are not heavier, have not been for years. Keep up.

In reply to all you lot!: My old winter bike (it's a crosser, but never ridden off road yet) has BB7 disc brakes and since new the front one has screeched - horribly. It also feels very heavy for what I want (a winter/crap weather road bike and possibly very occasional towpath use) so I've now got a Ribble 365 frame with normal groupset and Hope/Open Pro wheels. I can't see feel any difference in the braking from the discs to the long-drop road brakes I've got.

So - when i get my old winter bike back from the bloke I've lent it to for "getting into cycling", should i sell it or is it worth hanging onto a disc brake equipped crosser for trying some off-road stuff (and maybe a bit of CX racing next winter)?

In reply to The New NickB:
If the new cx bike has carbon forks then avoid canti brakes. V brakes or discs yes but avoid centre pull canti's, they cause lethal brake/fork judder.
If going off road, grit/mud filled pad will soon ruin the rim braking surface, so for that reason alone go for discs.

In reply to andy: whadjewmean you ain't been off road with it? Course you should! Nothing quite like hurtling down a hill on drop bars wondering whether your tyres are going to hold up.... Crossing is immense amounts of fun. Its like mtbing used to be twenty years ago before they sucked the joy out of it with suspension and seriousness... Check this out for proper offroading crossers and whats possible: http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/i-beg-you-more-monstercross-355649.html

In reply to mike kann: Now y'see - me and my mate (when we had MTBs) used to compete for the title of most utterly useless off-road cyslist in Yorkshire. So now I spend my time becoming not quite the most utterly useless on-road cyclist in Yorkshire - and I've reached the heady heights of "not that shit, really, for a fat lad".

So whilst I'm intrigued by all this muddy stuff, I'm not sure it's worth the "where did that EXTRA bike come from????" questions. I'll probably keep it and put knobbly tyres on it - but I'm sure it'll do a lot more shed time than it should!

In reply to mikehike:

Wheel rims were a disposable item back when I used to race mtbs

I still love my ti framed mtb race bike with v brakes, yes the brakes grind in the mud but I have no issues stopping.

I understand the issues you mention with frame flex on lightweight cx frames though.

In reply to mike kann:

Now and again I like to do something on the crosser that would be more sensibly tackled on the full bouncer. As long as it's not massively rocky or droppy then it's amazing what you can ride.

It's a hoot and teaches you masses about bike design and handling. The looks on other riders faces and instant kudos they afford you are also good.

In reply to DaveHK:

I have the Dog and the Monkey at Cannock booked in for the weekend on my new crosser. I'll let you know how Werewolf Drop works out.

In reply to mikehike:

This is an exaggeration. My cx bike has carbon forks and centre-pull cantis and it doesn't suffer from lethal brake/fork judder. What it does have is a fork crown brake hanger, like this: http://tinyurl.com/ofkl2xz which is the simple solution to the judder problem caused by fork/frame flex, and which my bike was fitted with from the factory.

I tried a set of mini-Vs on the front, more out of curiosity than anything else, but my brake levers didn't have enough pull to work them properly without running them stupidly close to the rims. I find I have plenty of stopping power and control with a set of Kool Stop dual-compound pads in my front cantis. It's plenty for my needs anyway; I can well believe that a more aggressive rider would find them not quite up to the job for them. And of course they do have all the genuine downsides of rim brakes as mentioned elsewhere on this thread. But they're still fine for me, for the moment. And they don't judder!

In reply to The New NickB: I'm planning to build a cx bike next year. I'll probably go for something like this

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/hope-v-twin-remote-brake-system-x2-calipers/

Sounds like a faff to set up but once you've got it right I think it should be almost as good as regular hydraulics.

In reply to The New NickB:

I've got a CX with cable disc brakes.

As a wobblebottom, I love disc brakes. Downhill, in the rain, I barely wet my pants. Never had a full on brown trouser moment with them.

In reply to Martin W:
Not an exagerration in my case. My hanger was atop the headset. I imagine your pictured hanger would at least half the effect of brake judder.