/ Returning mail order harness after trying on at home
Below is the harness.
We wanted it to fit waist size 32" waist, the waist range is 29.5 upwards size 2. When trying it on it seems too big.
Whats the law on returns please.
Unfortunately the Distance Selling Regulations and some EU safety laws on PPE contradict each other. I'm not sure which has priority.
"Please Note: We are unable to accept any returns on Underwear, Electronics, DVDs or items governed by PPE Law (Snowsport and Climbing Helmets, Climbing Hardware, Climbing Ropes, Iceaxes or Crampons.) "
Harnesses would fall within PPE law but, as they are not mentioned in that list, I can see why you could assume you can return it. I suspect they are correct but you could appeal to their discretion as the wording of the returns exclusions has mislead you. It could also be a good PR exercise for them. At least ask for a reduction if you buy a different sized harness and stick the unwanted one on Ebay
Therefore, if they've charged you V.A.T. It isn't an item of PPE.
Therefore you can return it.
Well, worth a try................
less exercise and more pies youth !
you'll soon grow into it !
"Harnesses would fall within PPE law but, as they are not mentioned in that list, I can see why you could assume you can return it. I suspect they are correct but you could appeal to their discretion as the wording of the returns exclusions has mislead you. It could also be a good PR exercise for them. At least ask for a reduction if you buy a different sized harness and stick the unwanted one on Ebay"
> Therefore, if they've charged you V.A.T. It isn't an item of PPE.
> Therefore you can return it.
> Well, worth a try................
PPE is nothing to do with working (except you might work using it). Harnesses are PPE as are nearly all items of climbing equipment and may be exempted from the distance selling rules under;- `..... or which by reason of their nature cannot be returned or are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly;´
You use the phrase "seems too big" which is not good enough IMHO in this situation.
According to the information on the Petzl website the size 2 Corax should adjust between 75 - 105 cm / 29.5 - 41.5 inches. I doubt Petzl have got this wrong so my guess is that you need to unthread the webbing from the last keeper on either side of the padded band to allow it to adjust to the 29.5 inch limit.
I'd agree with the shop that it's PPE and that you're stuck with it if the item is as described. Surely you understand that they can't sell this item onwards if they can't vouch for it's history; would you buy a harness knowing that it had been in the possession of some unaccountable stranger who could have done anything at all to it?
Suck it up and learn a valuable lesson about why you pay a premium going to a proper shop. The sad thing is that if you went to a certain large blue fronted outdoor shop and told them it was £x cheaper at LD mountain centre they would have sold it to 10% cheaper again.
Well Edd you hit the nail on the head.
My work buddy who the harness is for had tried it on and commented how it was almost fully tightened up with no further leeway. It was at that point I contacted the store, being mindful we must not use the harness or remove the tags. The assistant mentioned un-threading the webbing and sure enough it now fits.
Im not surprised it cant be returned and I had not read the T&C's but the statement "Hassle Free Returns" on the very page the harness is advertised is very misleading.
Anyways, panic over.
Smug mode: On.
This also applies in a place that sounds like "throw and sock", also a red fronted outdoor shop does get some great deals.
After a quick look at the link I would agree. Just because the shop says it excludes returns as it's "PPE" (so is hi-viz clothing btw), I assume that doesn't mean it can overide DS regulations ? - and I wouldn't have thought they could get away with the "liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly" exemption for a harness! If "Health and Safety" was such a concern then no seller should be able to take returns.
The problem is that the useful life of PPE may be as short as one event, a retailer has no way of telling if a customer has used up the life of the product and therefore can refuse its return.
Put it this way: would you be happy buying a harness that someone else had tried on in an unspecified environment ? (in a garage, maybe, where they kept their spare car battery ?)
No, though in this case if it was mis-sold the selling company loses. Did the OP ask if it was suitable for a 32" waist? Does the seller's website indicate this suitability? If it does, IMO it was missold and should be refunded regardless of whether that means the supplier has to bin it.
(By the way I have the older version of that harness in size 2 and it is *very* adjustable - I have a 38" waist but I think it would easily go down to 32, though you would have to overlap the padded bits it will fit).
Did the OP ask if it was suitable for a 32" waist? Does the seller's website indicate this suitability? If it does, IMO it was missold and should be refunded regardless of whether that means the supplier has to bin it.
The OP has already stated, that on advice from the shop and after some further adjustment, that the harness now fits.
your point was..
I guessing it's the "by nature of its use" exemption the retailer is relying on, but is that really intended to apply to something like a climbing harness ? Looking at a couple of specialist PPE online retailers, I can't see that their terms are quite as inflexible as many of the outdoor retailers.
I know people do, but I personally would not buy a used harness, and I would be quite angry if I found out that one I bought as new had in fact been sent to a customer, taken out of the pack and potentially used or damaged.
They can, will and do refuse returns of PPE, the exemption is quite clear. Virtually all outdoor retailers have this policy, for example Cotswolds:- "*Policy on climbing equipment and helmet returns
Please note that for the safety of all our customers, we are unable to exchange or issue a refund for any new or unused climbing equipment and all helmets (including Ski) once it has left our premises."
Whether their intepretation of the regulations is correct is a matter for a court judgement and until then they are legally within their rights to continue.
A brief look at retailers websites in the popular climbing areas, and as far as I can see Joe Browns, Needle Sports, and Outside do not have this policy. The Cotwolds one seems particularly bonkers.
Retailers can put all sorts of stuff in their T&C's but I assume that doesn't necessarily make it enforcible.
Take them to court then, I´m sure the retail trade will be happy to have some clarity on the matter possibly at your expense!
Cotswold's should probably say "unless it is found to be defective", though it probably also says "this does not affect your statutory rights" which effectively means that.
I personally think the DSR are unfair on retailers. If you wish to return for no reason other than changing your mind, IMO you should remain liable for the postage in both directions.
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