/ haul loop use...

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ow arm - on 12 Nov 2013
Just been reading various posts about what a haul loop should and shouldnt be used for and have a question
If I were attaching a confidence rope for my e.g. wife on some trickier sections of winter scrambling etc, could I tie in to my front belay loop and use a Karab to hold the rope behind me with the haul loop - just to save having to constantly hold the rope out to one side?
csw on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to owena:

I'd say not - imagine if you had it arranged thus and she fell - you'd be far more likely to go with her since the pull would be from way above your CoG and consequently more destabilising - i bet any engineer could put this better
jkarran - on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to owena:

For body belaying? I wouldn't, I don't see what I'd gain but I do see hassle and risk.

jk
Climbing Pieman on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to owena: If you mean she is attached to the other end, then no I would not do so. Besides safety I do not see how you can control the tension between the two of you, or use protection, etc, if you are hands free.
Ian Parsons - on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to csw:

Do we all understand the term "haul loop" to mean the same thing? ie a full-strength attachment loop sewn into the rear of the waistbelt of a sit-harness - in earlier harnesses (eg Ultimate Equipment) also referred to and doubling as a "rear belay loop". You seem to have in mind something that sits higher on the body - a bigwall chest harness/gear rack perhaps?

To the OP: do you mean simply pass the rope through a krab on the haul loop, or actually re-tie into it snugly with a second knot?
Ian Parsons - on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to csw:

...or were you referring to the haul loop at the top of the rucsac? I may be wrong, but I don't think that's what the OP meant.
jayjackson - on 12 Nov 2013
I can't quite get my head around what you're thinking of doing.

Do you mean...

Clipping your hand coils to your harness to save carrying them.

or...

Tying in and passing the rope around your body and through a krab on your haul loop before it goes back to your partner, presumably to prevent the rope getting under your feet.

In the first case you reduce your ability to give good, solid support to your partner, lose the option of easily paying out/taking in slack, and risk loading you/your harness at an unusual angle if either of you loads the rope. Usually easiest just to carry them when it's easy, and drop them by your partner if you need to get further away/use your hands etc.

In the second case you seriously risk some very odd loading of yourself/your harness if either of you load the rope - would it not squash you if the rope were wrapped around half of your body (tied at the front and fed through a krab at the back)? Maybe try this at home first - see what it's like having the harness loaded in this fashion.

Finally, read up on your harness manufacturer's instructions. Harnesses are designed for dynamic loading only from certain points - of all the harnesses I've had, regardless of the stated strength of a haul loop, they are usually not designed for taking falls/belaying with.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your question, not meaning to teach you anything you may already know!
csw on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to csw)
>
> ...or were you referring to the haul loop at the top of the rucsac? I may be wrong, but I don't think that's what the OP meant.

Yeah - that's exactly what I thought he meant - mea culpa.....

martinph78 on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to owena: You could (in terms of the haul loop would hold that sort of fall if it's a full strength haul loop), but I really don't see why you'd want to.

Think about what it is you are trying to achieve by giving her a confidence rope, and then think if you can do this with it tied to the back of your harness rather than held in your hand.

If you still think the answer is "yes" then I'd suggest that you re-read the purpose and methods of confidence roping.
andic - on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to csw:
> (In reply to Ian Parsons)
> [...]
>
> Yeah - that's exactly what I thought he meant - mea culpa.....

sounds dicey.

I think using it as a short rope/dog lead reruires you to be facing your partner and not moving but adjusting tension by hand otherwise what is the point? If it is getting in the way and/or you can't climb short pitches without dropping masses of hand coils it is probably too long or you are not moving properly together.
ow arm - on 12 Nov 2013
In reply to owena: I think between you all youve worked out what I mean, I wasnt expecting such a good response and so quickly - just been for a run up Moelwyn Mawr so only checking my replies now!

I understand what you mean and agree that it would be an odd direction if partner did take a fall, and yes I get what you mean by the 'lead' being too long if its getting under the feet.

Thanks all, I know its an obvious answer to some of you but common sense isnt always that common

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