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I was watching a couple of videos about the Central Pillar of Freney, one of which was an interview with Chris Bonington - http://www.tvmountain.com/video/alpinisme/8144-chris-bonington-pilier-du-fr... in which he gives his version of events as best he can remember them. CB's original article for the Alpine Journal may be found here - http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1962_files/AJ%201962%2011...
A couple of things stand out. Firstly the Desmaison party hardly climbed any of the pillar - they gained the Chandelle mostly by climbing the couloir between the Central and Right Hand Pillars. They then bypassed the crux by asking the British/Polish team to fix a rope for them so they could prussik up it. Hardly the basis for a claim to a first ascent.
The second point is: what happened to Jan Djuglosz, the Polish climber? I've never heard or read anything about him since the first ascent of the Freney.
There are a couple of interesting articles on Summit Post about the Pillar. The tragedy of June 1961 is described in this piece - http://www.summitpost.org/the-1961-drama-of-the-central-pillar-of-freney/82... while this puts the record straight as to the events during the first ascent - http://www.summitpost.org/l-affaire-freney/827900 .
ALC
A couple of things stand out. Firstly the Desmaison party hardly climbed any of the pillar - they gained the Chandelle mostly by climbing the couloir between the Central and Right Hand Pillars. They then bypassed the crux by asking the British/Polish team to fix a rope for them so they could prussik up it. Hardly the basis for a claim to a first ascent.
The second point is: what happened to Jan Djuglosz, the Polish climber? I've never heard or read anything about him since the first ascent of the Freney.
There are a couple of interesting articles on Summit Post about the Pillar. The tragedy of June 1961 is described in this piece - http://www.summitpost.org/the-1961-drama-of-the-central-pillar-of-freney/82... while this puts the record straight as to the events during the first ascent - http://www.summitpost.org/l-affaire-freney/827900 .
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber: Very interesting.
Desmaison did seem to have a knack of attracting controversy, also a striking reflection on the rather Mafia like control of French Alpinism at the time, also its nationalism that seemed to be heavily influenced by the memory of French behaviour during WW II. I believe there were some doubts about the accuracy of Herzog's account of the Annapurna ascent as well, gripping story though he tells certainly is.
It is not clear to me how you could go up the couloir on snow, either in the picture accompanying the article or in my picture taken this year from the Aiguille Blanche :
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=223252
Presumably the Central Pillar is the most prominent, highest pillar with prominent cornices above it on the summit ridge? Not obvious in both pictures that there is much snow to go up in the couloir, though it may be hidden by mist. I would have thought that it would be a nightmare of rubble without snow/ice to climb.
Desmaison did seem to have a knack of attracting controversy, also a striking reflection on the rather Mafia like control of French Alpinism at the time, also its nationalism that seemed to be heavily influenced by the memory of French behaviour during WW II. I believe there were some doubts about the accuracy of Herzog's account of the Annapurna ascent as well, gripping story though he tells certainly is.
It is not clear to me how you could go up the couloir on snow, either in the picture accompanying the article or in my picture taken this year from the Aiguille Blanche :
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=223252
Presumably the Central Pillar is the most prominent, highest pillar with prominent cornices above it on the summit ridge? Not obvious in both pictures that there is much snow to go up in the couloir, though it may be hidden by mist. I would have thought that it would be a nightmare of rubble without snow/ice to climb.
In reply to Simon4:
I tried to reply to my own post but couldn't - apparently Djuglosz died less than a year later in the Tatra mountains. Should have done my own research!
The central pillar is half-in, half-out of cloud in your shot. It lies directly below the left hand "summit". What you can't tell from your shot is that the lower part of the pillar slants down and right and the couloir is hidden behind it. The Freney face gives the impression that it's a headwall facing straight down the glacier but in fact it's more tucked in and you need to be somewhere between the Aiguille Blanche and the Col du Peuterey to get the best views. The first shot in the article about the tragedy looks straight in to the couloir. The upper part level with the Chandelle is taken by one of the more recent cascades routes and is WI5+ or something like that. I would imagine that the couloir had considerably more snow in it back then. The shot on that page under appendix 2 gives a better impression of the relative size of the Chandelle to the rest of the route.
Just noticed that the Summit Post articles are written by the same guy who interviews Bonington.
Here's one of my favourite photos of the crux pitch http://www.summitpost.org/freney-pillar/179371 Unusual to get such a shot in the mountains.
ALC
I tried to reply to my own post but couldn't - apparently Djuglosz died less than a year later in the Tatra mountains. Should have done my own research!
The central pillar is half-in, half-out of cloud in your shot. It lies directly below the left hand "summit". What you can't tell from your shot is that the lower part of the pillar slants down and right and the couloir is hidden behind it. The Freney face gives the impression that it's a headwall facing straight down the glacier but in fact it's more tucked in and you need to be somewhere between the Aiguille Blanche and the Col du Peuterey to get the best views. The first shot in the article about the tragedy looks straight in to the couloir. The upper part level with the Chandelle is taken by one of the more recent cascades routes and is WI5+ or something like that. I would imagine that the couloir had considerably more snow in it back then. The shot on that page under appendix 2 gives a better impression of the relative size of the Chandelle to the rest of the route.
Just noticed that the Summit Post articles are written by the same guy who interviews Bonington.
Here's one of my favourite photos of the crux pitch http://www.summitpost.org/freney-pillar/179371 Unusual to get such a shot in the mountains.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
The second image in my photo gallery shows the lower part of the face in 2011, with an obvious snowy diagonal running up at about 10 o'clock towards the foot of the Chandelle. Could that be Desmaison's 'couloir'?
Rob F
The second image in my photo gallery shows the lower part of the face in 2011, with an obvious snowy diagonal running up at about 10 o'clock towards the foot of the Chandelle. Could that be Desmaison's 'couloir'?
Rob F
In reply to a lakeland climber: That picture of the pillar is awesome!
What we did this Summer really was the babies route of the area, compared to what is around there. Still very glad to have done it though, we also fought our way down in a storm, unlike the Bonatti party we went over the Col Eccles and down the Brouillard glacier. It did help (a lot in fact), that we had a GPS, which I was very sceptical about beforehand, but was comprehensively proved wrong. I suppose Bonatti was influenced by the part of the mountain that he knew best, he certainly wouldn't have had any other clues than previous familiarity in that storm.
It just shows what fantastic mountaineers Whillans and Bonnington were in their prime, it is a stunning achievement, despite the route having its share of tragedies.
What has always struck me about that part of the Mont Blanc massif, and the Brenva area in particular, is how much more serious, remote and full-on it is than the more domesticated (and hugely more popular), Chamonix side. On the Aiguille Blanche, the scenery still towers over you in all its fierce vastness, while it is very easy to be trapped by bad weather and visibility in featureless but menacing terrain, with no clear direction to go in.
What we did this Summer really was the babies route of the area, compared to what is around there. Still very glad to have done it though, we also fought our way down in a storm, unlike the Bonatti party we went over the Col Eccles and down the Brouillard glacier. It did help (a lot in fact), that we had a GPS, which I was very sceptical about beforehand, but was comprehensively proved wrong. I suppose Bonatti was influenced by the part of the mountain that he knew best, he certainly wouldn't have had any other clues than previous familiarity in that storm.
It just shows what fantastic mountaineers Whillans and Bonnington were in their prime, it is a stunning achievement, despite the route having its share of tragedies.
What has always struck me about that part of the Mont Blanc massif, and the Brenva area in particular, is how much more serious, remote and full-on it is than the more domesticated (and hugely more popular), Chamonix side. On the Aiguille Blanche, the scenery still towers over you in all its fierce vastness, while it is very easy to be trapped by bad weather and visibility in featureless but menacing terrain, with no clear direction to go in.
In reply to rif:
The couloir that Desmaison took is really hard to see in your shot. The hidden pillar is quite obvious in your shot and has a diagonal line of snow leading to it. Further right is a large couloir which lies to the right of the RH pillar and has another diagonal line of snow leading up leftwards. Differentiating between the Central and RH pillars is hard to do in that shot.
ALC
The couloir that Desmaison took is really hard to see in your shot. The hidden pillar is quite obvious in your shot and has a diagonal line of snow leading to it. Further right is a large couloir which lies to the right of the RH pillar and has another diagonal line of snow leading up leftwards. Differentiating between the Central and RH pillars is hard to do in that shot.
ALC
In reply to rif: As a matter of interest, where is your picture taken from? Is it from the top of the Punta Innominata?
In reply to Simon4:
No, it's a recent telephoto from the TMB on the opposite side of Val Veni, with the Freney glacier's icefall and the top of the Rochers Gruber towards the right of the bottom margin. I ought to have pix of the Freney pillars taken from the Aig Blanche back in 1972ish, but can't at the moment find the relevant box of slides, or maybe I'd run out of film.
Btw I completely agree about the Italian side of Monte Bianco: proper mountaineering, and great ways of reaching the summit before descending one of the easy routes.
No, it's a recent telephoto from the TMB on the opposite side of Val Veni, with the Freney glacier's icefall and the top of the Rochers Gruber towards the right of the bottom margin. I ought to have pix of the Freney pillars taken from the Aig Blanche back in 1972ish, but can't at the moment find the relevant box of slides, or maybe I'd run out of film.
Btw I completely agree about the Italian side of Monte Bianco: proper mountaineering, and great ways of reaching the summit before descending one of the easy routes.
In reply to rif: I've just uploaded a picture (from close to the Eccles bivi hut), that seems to show the pillars quite clearly, perhaps that will shed some more light on where the couloir goes.
In reply to Simon4:
Sure that you mean the Eccles? You are looking across the face from there not at it.
ALC
Sure that you mean the Eccles? You are looking across the face from there not at it.
ALC
In reply to Simon4:
Are you sure you mean the Eccles? You are looking across the face from there not at it.
I've just had a look on the iPad map app and in 3d the face is in pretty good detail, not sure what Google maps shows. From L to R you get a prominent S Pillar, a deep gully, the recessed Hidden Pillar, a shallow gully/corner, the prominent Cental Pillar, a deep gully, the RH Pillar and finally a deep couloir/snow bowl before the Peuterey Ridge.
ALC
Are you sure you mean the Eccles? You are looking across the face from there not at it.
I've just had a look on the iPad map app and in 3d the face is in pretty good detail, not sure what Google maps shows. From L to R you get a prominent S Pillar, a deep gully, the recessed Hidden Pillar, a shallow gully/corner, the prominent Cental Pillar, a deep gully, the RH Pillar and finally a deep couloir/snow bowl before the Peuterey Ridge.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber: This is a new pic I have just posted, it has not yet come through the processing.
Would be interested to hear if you think i t clarifies matters at all.
Would be interested to hear if you think i t clarifies matters at all.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I spent three days sat next to Desmaison in 1993 at ENSA. There were twenty other people there who treated him with a degree of reverence reserved for gods! He played up to this by telling endless stories of his many exploits. When he realised he'd got a Brit sitting next to him he rose even more to the occasion, as you can imagine - I'd heard most of these but always from a British point of view. However, he was quite clear about the CP Freney that he did not claim the first ascent and was equally clear that Bonington and co were the first ascentionists and that he just happened to be there at the time. As far as I remember he felt that it was the media (French or British, I'm not sure) that were to blame for any claims for the FA on his behalf. Of course, this might all have been bullshit for my benefit, but to his credit I found him to be utterly charming and very genuine. He'd stopped climbing by then and seemed quite old for 63 - but had just taken up paragliding!
> Firstly the Desmaison party hardly climbed any of the pillar - they gained the Chandelle mostly by climbing the couloir between the Central and Right Hand Pillars. They then bypassed the crux by asking the British/Polish team to fix a rope for them so they could prussik up it. Hardly the basis for a claim to a first ascent.
I spent three days sat next to Desmaison in 1993 at ENSA. There were twenty other people there who treated him with a degree of reverence reserved for gods! He played up to this by telling endless stories of his many exploits. When he realised he'd got a Brit sitting next to him he rose even more to the occasion, as you can imagine - I'd heard most of these but always from a British point of view. However, he was quite clear about the CP Freney that he did not claim the first ascent and was equally clear that Bonington and co were the first ascentionists and that he just happened to be there at the time. As far as I remember he felt that it was the media (French or British, I'm not sure) that were to blame for any claims for the FA on his behalf. Of course, this might all have been bullshit for my benefit, but to his credit I found him to be utterly charming and very genuine. He'd stopped climbing by then and seemed quite old for 63 - but had just taken up paragliding!
In reply to Simon4:
Does my crappy photo of the face help? http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=115086
Does my crappy photo of the face help? http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=115086
In reply to MG:
To the top of the Gugliermina yes - but sadly didn't go to the top of the Blanche. That would have been a big ask in rock boots - it was bad enough going down in them!
To the top of the Gugliermina yes - but sadly didn't go to the top of the Blanche. That would have been a big ask in rock boots - it was bad enough going down in them!
In reply to jon:
Well yes it probably does, not so crappy either!
It does explain what ALC meant when he said that I was looking at it sideways, not face on. It is clear from a photodiagram from the Monzino hut that the pillars are above and slightly to the right of the Col de Peuterey, while the Innominata ridge route skirts the pillars to the left (West).
There are 2 snow couloirs in your picture rising from right to left toward the central pillar, it looks as though the upper, right-hand most one may have been the couloir used by Desmaison and party.
Well yes it probably does, not so crappy either!
It does explain what ALC meant when he said that I was looking at it sideways, not face on. It is clear from a photodiagram from the Monzino hut that the pillars are above and slightly to the right of the Col de Peuterey, while the Innominata ridge route skirts the pillars to the left (West).
There are 2 snow couloirs in your picture rising from right to left toward the central pillar, it looks as though the upper, right-hand most one may have been the couloir used by Desmaison and party.
Post edited at 17:53
In reply to jon:
Don't get me wrong, I think he was one of the pre-eminent French alpinists of the 1960s and early 1970s, one of his lines I aspired to (but never did) was the Desmaison/Gousseault on the left of the Walker. It may well have been a case of him and the media (read Lucien Davies) egging each other on, not easy to tell from this distance and with the selective memory we all have.
To Simon4:
I think if you want to make sense of how the Freney face is laid out then you need two shots side by side: one from the front/left looking in and one from somewhere on the ridge leading towards the Col du Peuterey from the Aig Blanche. Then you can begin to match up features and see how it all fits together. Basically from left to right, Inominata to Peuterey, you have Arete, gully, pillar, gully, pillar, pillar, gully, pillar, (wide gully) arete.
Here's a shot showing what I mean - http://www.chamonixtopo.com/central-pillar-of-freney-mont-blanc/freney-pill... , the gully Desmaison took is the one to the <b>left</b> of the large grey rock scar at centre right.
ALC
Don't get me wrong, I think he was one of the pre-eminent French alpinists of the 1960s and early 1970s, one of his lines I aspired to (but never did) was the Desmaison/Gousseault on the left of the Walker. It may well have been a case of him and the media (read Lucien Davies) egging each other on, not easy to tell from this distance and with the selective memory we all have.
To Simon4:
I think if you want to make sense of how the Freney face is laid out then you need two shots side by side: one from the front/left looking in and one from somewhere on the ridge leading towards the Col du Peuterey from the Aig Blanche. Then you can begin to match up features and see how it all fits together. Basically from left to right, Inominata to Peuterey, you have Arete, gully, pillar, gully, pillar, pillar, gully, pillar, (wide gully) arete.
Here's a shot showing what I mean - http://www.chamonixtopo.com/central-pillar-of-freney-mont-blanc/freney-pill... , the gully Desmaison took is the one to the <b>left</b> of the large grey rock scar at centre right.
ALC
Post edited at 17:59
In reply to Simon4:
I think your new photo shows the Brouillard Pillars, not the Freney ones? (Compare it with the telephotos in my gallery).
Jon's from on the Gug shows almost the whole of the Freney face, right across to the Great Couloir at far R, as well as the Innominata and the tops of the Brouillard pillars off to the L.
Rob
I think your new photo shows the Brouillard Pillars, not the Freney ones? (Compare it with the telephotos in my gallery).
Jon's from on the Gug shows almost the whole of the Freney face, right across to the Great Couloir at far R, as well as the Innominata and the tops of the Brouillard pillars off to the L.
Rob
In reply to rif: Yes, I fear you are right, Jon has pointed out that I am getting thoroughly confused.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Yes, good find. That shot looks to be taken from the Col de Peuterey.
Yes, good find. That shot looks to be taken from the Col de Peuterey.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Right, that makes things <b>much</b> clearer, also why it is the central pillar. As you say the gully is quite deep and somewhat hidden, even when viewed at the right angle.
When you consider the actual size of these features if you were on them (not that I could be, they all look far too hard for me!), the immense scale of the entire area becomes clear. And this is only the top part of the "versant Italienne"!
Right, that makes things <b>much</b> clearer, also why it is the central pillar. As you say the gully is quite deep and somewhat hidden, even when viewed at the right angle.
When you consider the actual size of these features if you were on them (not that I could be, they all look far too hard for me!), the immense scale of the entire area becomes clear. And this is only the top part of the "versant Italienne"!
Post edited at 18:12
In reply to a lakeland climber: Some people do truly mad things in the Brenva area, look what these boys are doing :
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/news/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=37...
"We shot down onto the slope, one curve after the next. I felt as if I was skiing on air."
Yes my son, it looks like you were skiing on air!
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/news/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=37...
"We shot down onto the slope, one curve after the next. I felt as if I was skiing on air."
Yes my son, it looks like you were skiing on air!
In reply to Simon4:
Even when you begin climbing on the pillars you have a feeling of being above the rest of the world - the upper Freney glacier is very steep, and your eyes are led all the way down to the valley floor. It's a full day just to get to the Eccles hut, I believe the approach has become much more convoluted in recent years, it wasn't too bad back in the 1980s. The hut is at 3800m, the foot of the CP is at around 4200m and the foot of the Chandelle is around 4500m
ALC
> When you consider the actual size of these features if you were on them (not that I could be, they all look far too hard for me!), the immense scale of the entire area becomes clear. And this is only the top part of the "versant Italienne"!
Even when you begin climbing on the pillars you have a feeling of being above the rest of the world - the upper Freney glacier is very steep, and your eyes are led all the way down to the valley floor. It's a full day just to get to the Eccles hut, I believe the approach has become much more convoluted in recent years, it wasn't too bad back in the 1980s. The hut is at 3800m, the foot of the CP is at around 4200m and the foot of the Chandelle is around 4500m
ALC
In reply to Simon4:
Check out Ben Brigg's account of skiing the Sentinel Rouge!
> Yes my son, it looks like you were skiing on air!
Check out Ben Brigg's account of skiing the Sentinel Rouge!
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I'm assuming everyone here has read Total Alpinism? If not, I urge you to.
I'm assuming everyone here has read Total Alpinism? If not, I urge you to.
In reply to jon: Skiing the Sentinel Rouge - na, does not compute!
Next you'll be saying that someone has skied the central pillar.
Next you'll be saying that someone has skied the central pillar.
In reply to Removed User:
Read it several times. It's a combination of two of his books. The book about the line on the Jorasses is gripping reading and it seems he was saved in the nick of time.
ALC
> I'm assuming everyone here has read Total Alpinism? If not, I urge you to.
Read it several times. It's a combination of two of his books. The book about the line on the Jorasses is gripping reading and it seems he was saved in the nick of time.
ALC
In reply to Simon4:
For those who have not seen it, here is a short video of Stefano de Benedetti skiing the Aig Blanche de Peuterey in 1980.
youtube.com/watch?v=VFtHmDOxh90&
impressive
For those who have not seen it, here is a short video of Stefano de Benedetti skiing the Aig Blanche de Peuterey in 1980.
youtube.com/watch?v=VFtHmDOxh90&
impressive
In reply to Simon4:
and this other video with amazing heli footage of the 2010 descent
youtube.com/watch?v=Oaye0i50BKE&
and this other video with amazing heli footage of the 2010 descent
youtube.com/watch?v=Oaye0i50BKE&
In reply to manumartin:
The 2010 descent was on the North face another of Stefano's routes, the videos you link to are of the East face which saw its first repeat this year.
The 2010 descent was on the North face another of Stefano's routes, the videos you link to are of the East face which saw its first repeat this year.
In reply to manumartin: This stuff is awe-inspiring, just beyond my comprehension. Watching them ski off the summit of the Blanche recalled my own very careful abseil off it, they just launched down the face. Rather depressing if one allowed it to be a standard of comparison to one's own feeble efforts, but then so would anything by Uli Steck or any of dozens of top alpinists, so one must do what one can :
"a poor thing but mine own"
The amazing thing is that these lads manage to ski/snowboard at all, given that their male organs must be so vast as to massively impede normal skiing turns and manouvers.
"a poor thing but mine own"
The amazing thing is that these lads manage to ski/snowboard at all, given that their male organs must be so vast as to massively impede normal skiing turns and manouvers.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I must say, the article by Bonington about the pillar first ascent is superb. Vigorous, vivid, youthful writing. I once turned back a little below the Chandelle, having found the route rather more than my partner and I could easily chew. It's an awesome place.
I must say, the article by Bonington about the pillar first ascent is superb. Vigorous, vivid, youthful writing. I once turned back a little below the Chandelle, having found the route rather more than my partner and I could easily chew. It's an awesome place.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
wow. that pic of Antoine Vieille in despair is scary biscuits! WHat a tale : (
wow. that pic of Antoine Vieille in despair is scary biscuits! WHat a tale : (
In reply to jazzyjackson:
The 1961 epic even reached the UK press so it must have been seen as a pretty amazing event, my parents could remember it twenty years later.
In a slight shift to the left, what about the Hidden Pillar? Googling about this comes up with very little really. This piece http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web07f/newswire-hidden-pillar-freney-gabarrou reckons that Paddy Gaunt and Mark Miller did the fourth and first virtually free ascent which will have been in the mid to late 1980s (Miller was killed in the Katmandu air crash) . It really doesn't look like it's had many ascents even though it is reckoned to be good climbing - good enough to appear in a Mt Blanc selected climbs guide that I have. There's shots from the climb reported in alpinist at http://www.christophedumarest.com/fr/portfolio_freney.php but other than that not a lot of shots either.
ALC
The 1961 epic even reached the UK press so it must have been seen as a pretty amazing event, my parents could remember it twenty years later.
In a slight shift to the left, what about the Hidden Pillar? Googling about this comes up with very little really. This piece http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web07f/newswire-hidden-pillar-freney-gabarrou reckons that Paddy Gaunt and Mark Miller did the fourth and first virtually free ascent which will have been in the mid to late 1980s (Miller was killed in the Katmandu air crash) . It really doesn't look like it's had many ascents even though it is reckoned to be good climbing - good enough to appear in a Mt Blanc selected climbs guide that I have. There's shots from the climb reported in alpinist at http://www.christophedumarest.com/fr/portfolio_freney.php but other than that not a lot of shots either.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Death by stonefall approach to the upper pillar?
> In a slight shift to the left, what about the Hidden Pillar? It really doesn't look like it's had many ascents even though it is reckoned to be good climbing.
Death by stonefall approach to the upper pillar?
In reply to Robert Durran:
It is a bit of a shooting gallery in those couloirs at times
ALC
> Death by stonefall approach to the upper pillar?
It is a bit of a shooting gallery in those couloirs at times
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Trevor Pilling possibly climbed the Hidden Pillar at a similar time to the Miller/Gaunt ascent. I am not sure but his partner might have been Tommy Curtis. Unfortunately Trev is no longer with us as he disappeared on Fluted Peak in 1987. Can anyone else shed light on this Hidden Pillar ascent?
Trevor also made the first British ascent of the Jordi Bardill Directissima on the Freney Pillar with Andy Cave in 1986.
Trevor Pilling possibly climbed the Hidden Pillar at a similar time to the Miller/Gaunt ascent. I am not sure but his partner might have been Tommy Curtis. Unfortunately Trev is no longer with us as he disappeared on Fluted Peak in 1987. Can anyone else shed light on this Hidden Pillar ascent?
Trevor also made the first British ascent of the Jordi Bardill Directissima on the Freney Pillar with Andy Cave in 1986.
In reply to a lakeland climber: On a bit of a tangent ...
A question I left for you regarding my picture of (as was pointed out, the Brouillard pillars, not the Freney Pillars) :
What do people do when they have climbed the Brouillard pillars? I believe that most people carry on from the top of the Freney pillars to the summit of Mont Blanc, but the Brouillard ones look as if they dump you with quite a lot of tricky mixed ground, then the rest of the Brouillard ridge to finish.
So do people do a long series of abs to the base of the Brouillard ones?
A question I left for you regarding my picture of (as was pointed out, the Brouillard pillars, not the Freney Pillars) :
What do people do when they have climbed the Brouillard pillars? I believe that most people carry on from the top of the Freney pillars to the summit of Mont Blanc, but the Brouillard ones look as if they dump you with quite a lot of tricky mixed ground, then the rest of the Brouillard ridge to finish.
So do people do a long series of abs to the base of the Brouillard ones?
In reply to Simon4:
Brits finish the route and go to Mont Blanc of course!
When I did the Bonatti route on the Red Pillar (admittedly quite a while ago), a couple of fast continental teams overtook us and then abbed down past us (they seemed quite amused and impressed at the size of our sacks...."only les brits!"). We continued up the choss to a wild bivi on the very summit of Luigi Amadeo and then up the equally wild Brouillard ridge and over Mont Blanc next day - a proper alpine experience.
> What do people do when they have climbed the Brouillard pillars? I believe that most people carry on from the top of the Freney pillars to the summit of Mont Blanc, but the Brouillard ones look as if they dump you with quite a lot of tricky mixed ground, then the rest of the Brouillard ridge to finish.
> So do people do a long series of abs to the base of the Brouillard ones?
Brits finish the route and go to Mont Blanc of course!
When I did the Bonatti route on the Red Pillar (admittedly quite a while ago), a couple of fast continental teams overtook us and then abbed down past us (they seemed quite amused and impressed at the size of our sacks...."only les brits!"). We continued up the choss to a wild bivi on the very summit of Luigi Amadeo and then up the equally wild Brouillard ridge and over Mont Blanc next day - a proper alpine experience.
In reply to Robert Durran: That is very impressive Robert, especially as I could not imagine climbing a route on one of the pillars at all, let alone with enough kit to bivy out and carry on over Mont Blanc summit.
Why do people feel they have to go to the Himalaya when such full-on adventures can be had so close at hand, for those who choose and are robust enough to take them, even in the highly domesticated and helicopter infested Mont Blanc massif?
Why do people feel they have to go to the Himalaya when such full-on adventures can be had so close at hand, for those who choose and are robust enough to take them, even in the highly domesticated and helicopter infested Mont Blanc massif?
In reply to Simon4:
The Brouillard pillars are quite a bit lower down than the Freney pillars. I think the only two that get done with reasonable regularity are the Red and the RH pillars. Both have quite a bit of ground to cover to get to the main ridge. There was a video (perhaps the link was posted on here) of an ascent by a continental team of the Bonatti route on the Red Pillar and there was as much climbing above the top of the tower as below - maybe not as technical.
There's a bolted descent line between the Hidden and Central Freney pillars but it's a bit scary and exposed to stonefall and puts you in a bowl that itself is a funnel.
Despite these "convenient" descents, the Brouillard and Freney faces are serious places - definitely "terrain d'aventure". In fact this could be extended to both the Miage and Brenva faces which while not as technical are pretty serious areas.
ALC
The Brouillard pillars are quite a bit lower down than the Freney pillars. I think the only two that get done with reasonable regularity are the Red and the RH pillars. Both have quite a bit of ground to cover to get to the main ridge. There was a video (perhaps the link was posted on here) of an ascent by a continental team of the Bonatti route on the Red Pillar and there was as much climbing above the top of the tower as below - maybe not as technical.
There's a bolted descent line between the Hidden and Central Freney pillars but it's a bit scary and exposed to stonefall and puts you in a bowl that itself is a funnel.
Despite these "convenient" descents, the Brouillard and Freney faces are serious places - definitely "terrain d'aventure". In fact this could be extended to both the Miage and Brenva faces which while not as technical are pretty serious areas.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
We once attempted a route on the RH Pillar, but, as soon as the sun hit the face above, horrendous stonefall started spilling out of the couloirs to the side and peppering the low relief lower part of the pillar and continued all day. We spent all day sheltering under a small overhang and beat a hasty abseil retreat when things calmed down in the evening!
> The Brouillard pillars are quite a bit lower down than the Freney pillars. I think the only two that get done with reasonable regularity are the Red and the RH pillars.
We once attempted a route on the RH Pillar, but, as soon as the sun hit the face above, horrendous stonefall started spilling out of the couloirs to the side and peppering the low relief lower part of the pillar and continued all day. We spent all day sheltering under a small overhang and beat a hasty abseil retreat when things calmed down in the evening!
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