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It's time for a new waterproof jacket for use mainly in the UK weather, summer and winter. In winter I intend to wear more layers under.
I'm considering getting a Paramo jacket (haven't decided on which yet), they make lots of claims about just how waterproof their jackets are. How true is this?
I'd be interested to learn from anyone who uses Paramo how their stuff compares with other brands?
I currently have a TNF gor tex waterproof jacket which performed well for the first couple of years but is now not so good in heavy rain in spite of washing and re-proofing it.
How does Paramo preform after a few washes in their proofing material?
I'm considering getting a Paramo jacket (haven't decided on which yet), they make lots of claims about just how waterproof their jackets are. How true is this?
I'd be interested to learn from anyone who uses Paramo how their stuff compares with other brands?
I currently have a TNF gor tex waterproof jacket which performed well for the first couple of years but is now not so good in heavy rain in spite of washing and re-proofing it.
How does Paramo preform after a few washes in their proofing material?
In reply to Trangia:
so far for me, very well - I use aspria stuff in winter, has been washed on multiple occasions and stood up well to heavy rain ( the worst being a family holiday on the canal du midi where it rained hard for 3 days and I was on deck sitting still for c5 hours a day and stayed dry all the time).
in dry/cold conditions no problem.
my only gripe is the cut on the top is baggy, and its quite a warm set up so may need to rethink layering. Some of the newer options (or alternate suppliers eg cioch, furtech) might solve the former.
so far for me, very well - I use aspria stuff in winter, has been washed on multiple occasions and stood up well to heavy rain ( the worst being a family holiday on the canal du midi where it rained hard for 3 days and I was on deck sitting still for c5 hours a day and stayed dry all the time).
in dry/cold conditions no problem.
my only gripe is the cut on the top is baggy, and its quite a warm set up so may need to rethink layering. Some of the newer options (or alternate suppliers eg cioch, furtech) might solve the former.
Post edited at 08:50
In reply to Trangia:
Yep, second positive vote for the Aspira. Great for rough winter days, and (once you get used to the weight of it and adjust layers accordingly) with the all the vents opened you can keep cool and comfortable too.
Reproofing seems to take it back to brand new performance, although I've had it 5 years now, and I'm having to wash it more frequently - still only twice a year though.
Yep, second positive vote for the Aspira. Great for rough winter days, and (once you get used to the weight of it and adjust layers accordingly) with the all the vents opened you can keep cool and comfortable too.
Reproofing seems to take it back to brand new performance, although I've had it 5 years now, and I'm having to wash it more frequently - still only twice a year though.
In reply to Trangia:
If you think of it as a reasonably weather resistant softshell, you'll be very pleased with it. If you think of it as a direct swap for the usual membrane hardshells, you might not be (see angry paramo threads ad nauseam, in many different fora). I'm happy with mine.
If you're buying new, consider Cioch Direct instead... they make nice kit at a comparable price.
If you think of it as a reasonably weather resistant softshell, you'll be very pleased with it. If you think of it as a direct swap for the usual membrane hardshells, you might not be (see angry paramo threads ad nauseam, in many different fora). I'm happy with mine.
If you're buying new, consider Cioch Direct instead... they make nice kit at a comparable price.
In reply to Trangia:
I've had several sets of Paramo jackets/smocks and trousers over the years. I personally have found that for me they outlast gore-tex membrane style jackets. They can be reproofed in the washing machine to almost factory finished which is far better than I have achieved with any other jacket. If they are get ripped or damaged they can easily be repaired, either yourself or by Paramo themselves.
The main downsides of some of the range is the cut of some of the jackets. I have an aspira smock which is cut for someone with rather large breasts (much bigger than my moobs!)
I would reccomend trying any items on in the flesh and would reccomend looking at some of the newer jackets that have been cut much better than some of their older products.
BJC
I've had several sets of Paramo jackets/smocks and trousers over the years. I personally have found that for me they outlast gore-tex membrane style jackets. They can be reproofed in the washing machine to almost factory finished which is far better than I have achieved with any other jacket. If they are get ripped or damaged they can easily be repaired, either yourself or by Paramo themselves.
The main downsides of some of the range is the cut of some of the jackets. I have an aspira smock which is cut for someone with rather large breasts (much bigger than my moobs!)
I would reccomend trying any items on in the flesh and would reccomend looking at some of the newer jackets that have been cut much better than some of their older products.
BJC
In reply to Trangia:
No complaints whatsoever about my Paramo clothing; it's only failed to be waterproof when I haven't washed it or reproofed it (ca 2x p.a.). I've been using Paramo kit for getting on for 20 years and the original jacket is still going strong, despite having been used to put a tent fire out on Mt Kenya. Paramo offer a good repair service or you can DIY. Trousers wear out at bum and cuffs; patching is possible but adds weight.
Assessing weight for warmth in the UK, I found Paramo works out more efficient but that was before some of the newer fabrics came out. However, it is less efficient in the Alps in summer, so I keep a lightweight Goretex jacket and over-trousers in my pack. But I do know people who think Paramo works well in the Alps.
HTH
No complaints whatsoever about my Paramo clothing; it's only failed to be waterproof when I haven't washed it or reproofed it (ca 2x p.a.). I've been using Paramo kit for getting on for 20 years and the original jacket is still going strong, despite having been used to put a tent fire out on Mt Kenya. Paramo offer a good repair service or you can DIY. Trousers wear out at bum and cuffs; patching is possible but adds weight.
Assessing weight for warmth in the UK, I found Paramo works out more efficient but that was before some of the newer fabrics came out. However, it is less efficient in the Alps in summer, so I keep a lightweight Goretex jacket and over-trousers in my pack. But I do know people who think Paramo works well in the Alps.
HTH
In reply to Trangia:
I've used a Paramo jacket for 14 years, work as a walking guide and give it pretty heavy use, mostly in Scotland and the Peak. I wash it about twice a year and reproof it every couple of washes and it's still repelling completely revolting weather. The only problem I've ever had with it was the zip eventually wearing out - Paramo replaced it for a smallish fee and also put in new shoulder panels where they were faded for no extra charge. I find it a bit warm for a couple of months in the middle of summer and go back to a light shell but it gets plenty of use the rest of the time. Superb kit, far and away the best I've used (but my shape means I like the floppy cut!)
I've used a Paramo jacket for 14 years, work as a walking guide and give it pretty heavy use, mostly in Scotland and the Peak. I wash it about twice a year and reproof it every couple of washes and it's still repelling completely revolting weather. The only problem I've ever had with it was the zip eventually wearing out - Paramo replaced it for a smallish fee and also put in new shoulder panels where they were faded for no extra charge. I find it a bit warm for a couple of months in the middle of summer and go back to a light shell but it gets plenty of use the rest of the time. Superb kit, far and away the best I've used (but my shape means I like the floppy cut!)
In reply to Trangia:
I love my Aspira and have used for about 8 years now. It`s funny stuff, don`t think of it as waterproof but as clothing that will keep you warm and comfortable in the worst the weather can throw at you.
I love my Aspira and have used for about 8 years now. It`s funny stuff, don`t think of it as waterproof but as clothing that will keep you warm and comfortable in the worst the weather can throw at you.
In reply to Trangia:
Another vote for Aspira, agree the design and manufacture is pretty crude and heavy, wide seams, baggy, too many zips and things. But very comfortable.
Only issue I found is Map pocket fills with water at bottom from sweat. Daft design the inside layer is complete layer of inner and outer. Then outside consists of inner layer plus another inner and outer so sweat can get into the pocket but not out. Sort of sums it up really.
But will always go for the Paramo rather than Gortex and I have both, just because of softness.
Another vote for Aspira, agree the design and manufacture is pretty crude and heavy, wide seams, baggy, too many zips and things. But very comfortable.
Only issue I found is Map pocket fills with water at bottom from sweat. Daft design the inside layer is complete layer of inner and outer. Then outside consists of inner layer plus another inner and outer so sweat can get into the pocket but not out. Sort of sums it up really.
But will always go for the Paramo rather than Gortex and I have both, just because of softness.
In reply to Trangia:
The new Enduro jacket and trousers seem to be getting good reviews.
http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETENDUR...
It seems that Paramo have finally got around to addressing the criticisms re. the baggy fit of some of their older products.
The new Enduro jacket and trousers seem to be getting good reviews.
http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETENDUR...
It seems that Paramo have finally got around to addressing the criticisms re. the baggy fit of some of their older products.
In reply to Trangia:
Put it this way once you try it I doubt you'll be using your old Gortex again, due to the increased comfort levels!
As others have said you'll have to rethink your midlayers a bit due to extra warmth. I find it works well with Rab VR, Buffalo, ME Ultratherm and the Montane Krypton as mid or base layer during the winter.
I've been using Paramo since it first came out (early 90's) and use the Aspiro and the Velez Adventure throughout the Scottish winter.
As I'm running winter mountaineering courses the kit gets far more abuse than the norm.
Some of it is well over 10-20 years old and still going strong and still weatherproof though the elastic in my braces is now letting me down!
On the downside it's generally too warm and heavy for summer Alpine, is expensive.
I'm not so keen on the newer lightweight versions though use their Fuera windsmock instead, with a Helly Lifa thermal or an old Rab VR smock, if colder.
I rarely wash or proof mine with the Nikwax unless the outer starts wetting out, I just use mild soap, if I do.
Hope this helps...
Cheers Ron
Put it this way once you try it I doubt you'll be using your old Gortex again, due to the increased comfort levels!
As others have said you'll have to rethink your midlayers a bit due to extra warmth. I find it works well with Rab VR, Buffalo, ME Ultratherm and the Montane Krypton as mid or base layer during the winter.
I've been using Paramo since it first came out (early 90's) and use the Aspiro and the Velez Adventure throughout the Scottish winter.
As I'm running winter mountaineering courses the kit gets far more abuse than the norm.
Some of it is well over 10-20 years old and still going strong and still weatherproof though the elastic in my braces is now letting me down!
On the downside it's generally too warm and heavy for summer Alpine, is expensive.
I'm not so keen on the newer lightweight versions though use their Fuera windsmock instead, with a Helly Lifa thermal or an old Rab VR smock, if colder.
I rarely wash or proof mine with the Nikwax unless the outer starts wetting out, I just use mild soap, if I do.
Hope this helps...
Cheers Ron
In reply to Clauso:
Once the fashion pundits get in you'll end up with skimpy wee jackets and low waisted trousers for the high street, rather than practical foul weather gear
Not so good for climbing being a jacket rather than a smock and very short at the front where it lifts out of your harness when stretching to leave a midriff gap...!
> The new Enduro jacket and trousers seem to be getting good reviews.
> It seems that Paramo have finally got around to addressing the criticisms re. the baggy fit of some of their older products.
Once the fashion pundits get in you'll end up with skimpy wee jackets and low waisted trousers for the high street, rather than practical foul weather gear
Not so good for climbing being a jacket rather than a smock and very short at the front where it lifts out of your harness when stretching to leave a midriff gap...!
In reply to Trangia:
I use the Aspira smock for winter, if the cut was better there would be nothing to moan about as other than that it is an excellent mountain jacket. I took the Aspira to the Alps and Andes and found it too heavy and warm for Alpine stuff but great for the higher and colder Andes.
I bought a Paramo Quito for Alpine stuff instead which is excellent, used it all last winter in Scotland too but have a few niggles. The material is a bit thin, so I've patched about 5 holes on it, the hood is a little too small for a helmet but works really well in bad weather when you can zip it up to your eyes, though not move your head. The jacket is bordering on short, it still stays tucked into a harness, but only just. When mountain biking there is a couple of inches of damp bum under the end of the jacket.
The Paramo Enduro is back to the same weight as the Aspira, so unless they have it as a replacement for the Aspira, it seems a shame to work out the niggles of the Quito by making it 300g heavier. I am back to using my Aspira for scottish winter and saving the Quito for Alpine and general waterproof use.
I use the Aspira smock for winter, if the cut was better there would be nothing to moan about as other than that it is an excellent mountain jacket. I took the Aspira to the Alps and Andes and found it too heavy and warm for Alpine stuff but great for the higher and colder Andes.
I bought a Paramo Quito for Alpine stuff instead which is excellent, used it all last winter in Scotland too but have a few niggles. The material is a bit thin, so I've patched about 5 holes on it, the hood is a little too small for a helmet but works really well in bad weather when you can zip it up to your eyes, though not move your head. The jacket is bordering on short, it still stays tucked into a harness, but only just. When mountain biking there is a couple of inches of damp bum under the end of the jacket.
The Paramo Enduro is back to the same weight as the Aspira, so unless they have it as a replacement for the Aspira, it seems a shame to work out the niggles of the Quito by making it 300g heavier. I am back to using my Aspira for scottish winter and saving the Quito for Alpine and general waterproof use.
Post edited at 11:42
In reply to Trangia:
Nothing much to add. It works well as long as it's proofed - I'd say much more frequently than twice a year, but it's rescue team kit, and probably gets a lot more hammering than it would in everyday use. The only time it's failed, I think it was probably washed but but not proofed - and that was a spectacular failure, as it just absorbed all water in sight....
I'd agree the cut's quite baggy. I don't find that a problem when wearing either a harness or a rucsac with waist belt, but if worn with nothing round the waist, I find it a bit draughty and prone to getting water blown in.
I have the Velez jacket, and it's fine for most UK weather apart from the hottest bits of summer, or for running in much of summer.
Nothing much to add. It works well as long as it's proofed - I'd say much more frequently than twice a year, but it's rescue team kit, and probably gets a lot more hammering than it would in everyday use. The only time it's failed, I think it was probably washed but but not proofed - and that was a spectacular failure, as it just absorbed all water in sight....
I'd agree the cut's quite baggy. I don't find that a problem when wearing either a harness or a rucsac with waist belt, but if worn with nothing round the waist, I find it a bit draughty and prone to getting water blown in.
I have the Velez jacket, and it's fine for most UK weather apart from the hottest bits of summer, or for running in much of summer.
In reply to Shearwater:
I have a Cioch Direct Marsco top:
http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/waterproofs/marsco.html
which I really like but for two things - it's really heavy, and it's quite hot. It's a shame, because for functionality, it's excellent.
You also get a nice warm fuzzy glow from supporting a small Scottish gear manufacturer.
> If you think of it as a reasonably weather resistant softshell, you'll be very pleased with it. If you think of it as a direct swap for the usual membrane hardshells, you might not be (see angry paramo threads ad nauseam, in many different fora). I'm happy with mine.
> If you're buying new, consider Cioch Direct instead... they make nice kit at a comparable price.
I have a Cioch Direct Marsco top:
http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/waterproofs/marsco.html
which I really like but for two things - it's really heavy, and it's quite hot. It's a shame, because for functionality, it's excellent.
You also get a nice warm fuzzy glow from supporting a small Scottish gear manufacturer.
In reply to Ron Walker:
would that be the velez adventure light, and if so why not so keen ?
> I'm not so keen on the newer lightweight versions though use their Fuera windsmock instead,
would that be the velez adventure light, and if so why not so keen ?
In reply to Trangia:
I'm a paramo fan. As has been said, don't expect a paramo jacket to be a drop in replacement for a shell. The main differences IMO are that they are:
- Heavier
- warmer
- more durable
- easy to repair
- much more breathable
- not 100% waterproof
on the last one, what I mean is that if you dip your elbow in a puddle, you'll get wet in a way you wouldn't really with a hardshell. You will then dry out again, in a way you wouldn't with a hardshell. I stay just as dry in the rain as I did in gore.
I'm a paramo fan. As has been said, don't expect a paramo jacket to be a drop in replacement for a shell. The main differences IMO are that they are:
- Heavier
- warmer
- more durable
- easy to repair
- much more breathable
- not 100% waterproof
on the last one, what I mean is that if you dip your elbow in a puddle, you'll get wet in a way you wouldn't really with a hardshell. You will then dry out again, in a way you wouldn't with a hardshell. I stay just as dry in the rain as I did in gore.
In reply to tony:
And if you don't buy from Cioch, Paramo are (still, I think) ethical manufacturers.
> You also get a nice warm fuzzy glow from supporting a small Scottish gear manufacturer.
And if you don't buy from Cioch, Paramo are (still, I think) ethical manufacturers.
In reply to Trangia:
Been using an Aspira Jacket and Aspira Trousers for about 7 years. Trousers, while still remarkably waterproof have more or less worn out now.....that's after about 400 actual days of hard use (climbing/professional). Jacket is slightly faded but otherwise performs as good as the day it was bought - that's about 400 days use as well and maybe 400 more to go!
Still prefer Gore-tex hardshell for summer and alpine but when the weather is foul these two bits of kit are impossible to beat.
Been using an Aspira Jacket and Aspira Trousers for about 7 years. Trousers, while still remarkably waterproof have more or less worn out now.....that's after about 400 actual days of hard use (climbing/professional). Jacket is slightly faded but otherwise performs as good as the day it was bought - that's about 400 days use as well and maybe 400 more to go!
Still prefer Gore-tex hardshell for summer and alpine but when the weather is foul these two bits of kit are impossible to beat.
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
Not much of a weight saving compared to the standard model and IMHO the outer too flimsy for rock climbing in granite chimneys/rough rock and using classic body belays.
> would that be the velez adventure light, and if so why not so keen ?
Not much of a weight saving compared to the standard model and IMHO the outer too flimsy for rock climbing in granite chimneys/rough rock and using classic body belays.
In reply to Trangia:
Not as tailored as a burkha...but great in wintery weather.
Can be altered by Paramo, for a very reasonable price we are informed.
Not as tailored as a burkha...but great in wintery weather.
Can be altered by Paramo, for a very reasonable price we are informed.
In reply to tony:
I have a Glamaig (modified with helmet hood and side zips... weighs in at 650g or thereabouts). Given that it basically replaces a microfleece and a shell, the weight and warmth seem reasonable to me. It doesn't come out when the temperature is double digits, mind you.
I defintely rate their 'perfect fit'. Big improvement over the standard Paramo fit for me, and about the same price for comparable models.
> I have a Cioch Direct Marsco top
> which I really like but for two things - it's really heavy, and it's quite hot. It's a shame, because for functionality, it's excellent. I have a Glamaig (modified with helmet hood and side zips... weighs in at 650g or thereabouts). Given that it basically replaces a microfleece and a shell, the weight and warmth seem reasonable to me. It doesn't come out when the temperature is double digits, mind you.
I defintely rate their 'perfect fit'. Big improvement over the standard Paramo fit for me, and about the same price for comparable models.
Post edited at 15:36
In reply to Trangia:
I've been using the original Alta jacket and trousers for 15 years. They are still waterproof and wearing well.
I also have a Velez smock (original design) which I'm not so happy with. Any time I wear it in rain, it leaks through the zips, which are all exposed but with a flap behind them. I only wear this on days when rain is not forecast !
I've been using the original Alta jacket and trousers for 15 years. They are still waterproof and wearing well.
I also have a Velez smock (original design) which I'm not so happy with. Any time I wear it in rain, it leaks through the zips, which are all exposed but with a flap behind them. I only wear this on days when rain is not forecast !
In reply to IPPurewater:
I'm the opposite, I usually decide on jacket on arrival in the hills. Outwith a settled fine weather spell if it's not raining I wear a Rab VR smock and carry an eVent Jacket in my rucksack. If it is already raining then I wear my Velez Light from the off. I keep the Velez on for the day, opening up zips etc if it gets too warm. For winter I change base layer from thin Berghaus top to a Helly Hansen and carry a wind jacket and insulated Marmot Driclime.
Velez Light? Keeps me dry - always. Great pocket for map. A bit baggy in cut. A bit bulky to keep in rucksack. Fixed Hood. Far more comfortable to wear than normal shell jackets.
I don't proof as much as I should but it keeps on keeping me dry.
I'm the opposite, I usually decide on jacket on arrival in the hills. Outwith a settled fine weather spell if it's not raining I wear a Rab VR smock and carry an eVent Jacket in my rucksack. If it is already raining then I wear my Velez Light from the off. I keep the Velez on for the day, opening up zips etc if it gets too warm. For winter I change base layer from thin Berghaus top to a Helly Hansen and carry a wind jacket and insulated Marmot Driclime.
Velez Light? Keeps me dry - always. Great pocket for map. A bit baggy in cut. A bit bulky to keep in rucksack. Fixed Hood. Far more comfortable to wear than normal shell jackets.
I don't proof as much as I should but it keeps on keeping me dry.
In reply to Trangia: I've been using the Velez Adventure and Adventure light for a number of years. The only time I've had a problem was the Light in Norway with a full day of heavy rain (bouncing 6 inches off the road!). The jacket leaked through the shoulders where my pack was. I wouldn't use the Light when climbing or scrambling due to the lightweight material.
I have recently bought a pair of the Enduro trousers and been very impressed with them. First day out was as a body for SARDA training in the Brecons when it rained the entire day. Damp leaked through when lying in a puddle on a Karrimat as expected, but by the end of the day I was entirely dry - nothing needed to go in the drying room. Also done a couple of walking weekends in the Lakes in slightly warmer weather and the leg vents work well. Cut is good, and the snow gaiters mean separate gaiters aren't required. I can see they are going to get an awful lot of use, including MR work over the winter.
I have recently bought a pair of the Enduro trousers and been very impressed with them. First day out was as a body for SARDA training in the Brecons when it rained the entire day. Damp leaked through when lying in a puddle on a Karrimat as expected, but by the end of the day I was entirely dry - nothing needed to go in the drying room. Also done a couple of walking weekends in the Lakes in slightly warmer weather and the leg vents work well. Cut is good, and the snow gaiters mean separate gaiters aren't required. I can see they are going to get an awful lot of use, including MR work over the winter.
In reply to All:
Once again thanks to you all for taking the trouble to give such informative responses.
UKC at it's best!
Sorry, but a few further questions.
Some of you mention smocks. Is there any advantage of a smock over a zipped jacket? I presume it's about possible leakage at the zip, but with modern designs is this still such a problem? I feel that the advantage of a jacket is that you can open it for ventilation if you overheat?
Once again thanks to you all for taking the trouble to give such informative responses.
UKC at it's best!
Sorry, but a few further questions.
Some of you mention smocks. Is there any advantage of a smock over a zipped jacket? I presume it's about possible leakage at the zip, but with modern designs is this still such a problem? I feel that the advantage of a jacket is that you can open it for ventilation if you overheat?
In reply to Trangia: with the smocks I find it useful in warmer weather to unzip the sides fully and fasten the rucksack waist/hip belt underneath the jacket to give maximum ventilation. Not so easy to do with a jacket.
In reply to Denzil:
I also do this. Plus, if you're wearing a harness/rucsac with waist belt then you rarely undo jacket much further than you can with a smock. And the pouch pocket on the front holds a whole load of stuff!
I quite like them for days when I know I'm unlikely to change layers much during the day.
I also do this. Plus, if you're wearing a harness/rucsac with waist belt then you rarely undo jacket much further than you can with a smock. And the pouch pocket on the front holds a whole load of stuff!
I quite like them for days when I know I'm unlikely to change layers much during the day.
In reply to Trangia:
No problem. Full length zip on Quito is great.
> Some of you mention smocks. Is there any advantage of a smock over a zipped jacket? I presume it's about possible leakage at the zip, but with modern designs is this still such a problem? I feel that the advantage of a jacket is that you can open it for ventilation if you overheat?
No problem. Full length zip on Quito is great.
In reply to Trangia:
I wouldn't bother with paramo. It's heavy, baggy, not very breathable and doesn't 'catch the eye' or perform as well as other similarly priced hardshells.
There are plenty of other, better, waterproofs on the market and wouldnt/haven't even considered paramo when looking for a new shell. But that's my opinion. I prefer a light weight system that I can layer and adapt to the conditions.
I wouldn't bother with paramo. It's heavy, baggy, not very breathable and doesn't 'catch the eye' or perform as well as other similarly priced hardshells.
There are plenty of other, better, waterproofs on the market and wouldnt/haven't even considered paramo when looking for a new shell. But that's my opinion. I prefer a light weight system that I can layer and adapt to the conditions.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
Loads of people love them but given the testimony by multiple wearers of many years continuous use, many advocates may also not have actually tried modern hardshells. "I'm so happy I've never seen reason to try anything else."
Frankly I find hilarious the notion of having to vent a garment everywhere possible because it's too warm and heavy to wear anything substantial underneath so you can't take it off!!
I hate the bloody things with a passion but who am I to argue with so many?
Loads of people love them but given the testimony by multiple wearers of many years continuous use, many advocates may also not have actually tried modern hardshells. "I'm so happy I've never seen reason to try anything else."
Frankly I find hilarious the notion of having to vent a garment everywhere possible because it's too warm and heavy to wear anything substantial underneath so you can't take it off!!
I hate the bloody things with a passion but who am I to argue with so many?
Post edited at 20:10
1
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:
If it's any use, I have a couple of Velez smocks up for sale at the moment - I've just bought myself a new Enduro jacket, and I can't see me getting the use of out of 3 separate jackets.
Pretty much agree with all the positive comments above - I've been out in some horrific winter weather in both the Velez Light and full weight Velez, with not much more than a base layer and maybe a gilet on underneath. For winter climbing in the VA Light, I bought myself a Fuera wind top for extra warmth, and I've never really had to use my belay jacket. The downside is that I don't find it much use in summer, but for winter it's the dogs.
If it's any use, I have a couple of Velez smocks up for sale at the moment - I've just bought myself a new Enduro jacket, and I can't see me getting the use of out of 3 separate jackets.
Pretty much agree with all the positive comments above - I've been out in some horrific winter weather in both the Velez Light and full weight Velez, with not much more than a base layer and maybe a gilet on underneath. For winter climbing in the VA Light, I bought myself a Fuera wind top for extra warmth, and I've never really had to use my belay jacket. The downside is that I don't find it much use in summer, but for winter it's the dogs.
In reply to BnB:
Like wise, I was trying to come across as a polite hater to paramo I'd never recommend it to anyone. But fair play to all those who like it, maybe you all have a higher 'feeling uncomfortable' threshold than myself.
Like wise, I was trying to come across as a polite hater to paramo I'd never recommend it to anyone. But fair play to all those who like it, maybe you all have a higher 'feeling uncomfortable' threshold than myself.
In reply to Trangia:
I too love paramo, I find that it works for me in most conditions other than summer. I have owned goretex in the past but always seem to trash them were as I don't have that problem with paramo.
Therefore it gets my vote just because I am not spending a couple of hundred pounds a year on a hard shell.
I too love paramo, I find that it works for me in most conditions other than summer. I have owned goretex in the past but always seem to trash them were as I don't have that problem with paramo.
Therefore it gets my vote just because I am not spending a couple of hundred pounds a year on a hard shell.
In reply to Trangia:
it'snot slinky, or light..but the idea is you wear it away from the catwalk and wear it almost all day, rather than faffing about putting a shell on & off.
i find it weatherproof (i.e you dry out without noticing.
Andy Kirkpatrick has an article about sweat being a bigger problem than rain.
another one to consider: Furtech. slimmer fitting, looks techy. Chris Townsend rates it. From £125 for a jacket IIRC. I've got one & really like it, though I don't get out in extreme stuff .
it'snot slinky, or light..but the idea is you wear it away from the catwalk and wear it almost all day, rather than faffing about putting a shell on & off.
i find it weatherproof (i.e you dry out without noticing.
Andy Kirkpatrick has an article about sweat being a bigger problem than rain.
another one to consider: Furtech. slimmer fitting, looks techy. Chris Townsend rates it. From £125 for a jacket IIRC. I've got one & really like it, though I don't get out in extreme stuff .
In reply to Trangia: i'll wear paramo aspira in prefreence to top range goretex or savage scottish weather. i'm just more comfortable. those that run hot and sweat a lot get the greatest benefit from paramo i reckon.
for a hot walk in i'll wear a windproof than layer up when i;m going to start climbing. warm for summer but i don't choose to walk in the rain much so it might be really good!
for a hot walk in i'll wear a windproof than layer up when i;m going to start climbing. warm for summer but i don't choose to walk in the rain much so it might be really good!
In reply to Trangia:
I personally use the Velez adventure light smock, for me out of all the jackets i have worn and tested then its the only one that keeps me warmest and driest in harsh Scottish weather all year round.
The biggest problem i have found with using 3 layer goretex or event is that in driving wind and rain, the outer fabric saturates and doesn't allow the jackets to breathe, therefore i tend to get wet inside from sweat not being able to escape. For me the final straw was when my £300 Rab eVent was soaked inside from sweat, i was cold and damp and i hadn't even been working particularly hard.
As a mountain professional, the 2 bits of kit that has made my life the most comfortable on the hills have been my velez light smock and my la spoetiva trango evo s boots!
The velez light isn't perfect, i find the the thinner material needs cleaning and reproofing every 6 to 8 weeks with heavy usage, the arms and body is cut slightly too short, you have to open the side zips to access the hand warming pockets. However the fabric performance, breathability, waterproofing, hood design and kangaroo pocket mean that it performs excellently in horrendous UK weather.
It is a warm jacket but i see this as a positive thing, i generally only wear a base layer underneath it. In the past with hardshells i would stop, change layers throughout the day and would be either too hot or cold, with the velez light i just zip/unzip, roll up/down sleeves and i am fine. At rest stops synthetic belay jacket goes on top.
I have worn the jacket in summer as well as winter, although as mentioned earlier by others this is a jacket that you tend to wear all day. I too consider this jacket as a softshell jacket with waterproof qualities, as long as i regularly clean and proof then it is fantastic. The only slight problem is that the jacket looks out of place walking round town as it is incredibly unfashionable, so it is purely a mountain jacket but that's what it was designed for
I personally use the Velez adventure light smock, for me out of all the jackets i have worn and tested then its the only one that keeps me warmest and driest in harsh Scottish weather all year round.
The biggest problem i have found with using 3 layer goretex or event is that in driving wind and rain, the outer fabric saturates and doesn't allow the jackets to breathe, therefore i tend to get wet inside from sweat not being able to escape. For me the final straw was when my £300 Rab eVent was soaked inside from sweat, i was cold and damp and i hadn't even been working particularly hard.
As a mountain professional, the 2 bits of kit that has made my life the most comfortable on the hills have been my velez light smock and my la spoetiva trango evo s boots!
The velez light isn't perfect, i find the the thinner material needs cleaning and reproofing every 6 to 8 weeks with heavy usage, the arms and body is cut slightly too short, you have to open the side zips to access the hand warming pockets. However the fabric performance, breathability, waterproofing, hood design and kangaroo pocket mean that it performs excellently in horrendous UK weather.
It is a warm jacket but i see this as a positive thing, i generally only wear a base layer underneath it. In the past with hardshells i would stop, change layers throughout the day and would be either too hot or cold, with the velez light i just zip/unzip, roll up/down sleeves and i am fine. At rest stops synthetic belay jacket goes on top.
I have worn the jacket in summer as well as winter, although as mentioned earlier by others this is a jacket that you tend to wear all day. I too consider this jacket as a softshell jacket with waterproof qualities, as long as i regularly clean and proof then it is fantastic. The only slight problem is that the jacket looks out of place walking round town as it is incredibly unfashionable, so it is purely a mountain jacket but that's what it was designed for
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