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Hi
probably asked already, but could someone post some tips on creating some anchors in a grassy area at the top of a cliff. Bar diameter, depth and that kind of stuff.
Cheers.
probably asked already, but could someone post some tips on creating some anchors in a grassy area at the top of a cliff. Bar diameter, depth and that kind of stuff.
Cheers.
In reply to pff:
In the 1960s at Swanage we used 2ft metal stakes well embedded at 90 degrees degrees to the slope to belay and ab from. Angle stakes were better than round ones.
There was no science behind this, just guesswork, but they held, didn't budge and we didn't die.
In those days we rarely saw anyone else climbing, but with the increase in numbers these days I suggest that it would be best to check on the local ethic for putting in fresh stakes at any venue.
In the 1960s at Swanage we used 2ft metal stakes well embedded at 90 degrees degrees to the slope to belay and ab from. Angle stakes were better than round ones.
There was no science behind this, just guesswork, but they held, didn't budge and we didn't die.
In those days we rarely saw anyone else climbing, but with the increase in numbers these days I suggest that it would be best to check on the local ethic for putting in fresh stakes at any venue.
In reply to pff:
2ft of angle or 2cm round; mild or stainless. Scaffolding tube also works, but is ugly. I have always placed two to allow for a backup.
2ft of angle or 2cm round; mild or stainless. Scaffolding tube also works, but is ugly. I have always placed two to allow for a backup.
In reply to Trangia:
In the 2010s, we prefer something a little longer:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=151718
There's some stake test information on Jim Titt's website:
http://www.bolt-products.com/Glue-inBoltDesign.htm
> In the 1960s at Swanage we used 2ft metal stakes well embedded at 90 degrees degrees to the slope to belay and ab from.
In the 2010s, we prefer something a little longer:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=151718
There's some stake test information on Jim Titt's website:
http://www.bolt-products.com/Glue-inBoltDesign.htm
Post edited at 09:03
In reply to pff:
Commonsense, destructive desting and redundancy, ie never ab on one stake alone.
For depth I'd obviously say the more the better, but this will vary dependent on what you're driving into. Having the mother and father of all sledge-hammers will help.
Agree that angle-iron will usually be best, and if you can find someone to cut the ends into points even better.
Commonsense, destructive desting and redundancy, ie never ab on one stake alone.
For depth I'd obviously say the more the better, but this will vary dependent on what you're driving into. Having the mother and father of all sledge-hammers will help.
Agree that angle-iron will usually be best, and if you can find someone to cut the ends into points even better.
In reply to Jamie B:
tricky to stick to that one, unless you always carry you stakes and sledgehammer in your rucksack
> never ab on one stake alone.
tricky to stick to that one, unless you always carry you stakes and sledgehammer in your rucksack
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I've only ever abbed on a single stake when it's been of the "architectural" variety, and even then with a fair degree of paranoia. I always work on the basis that if something goes wrong I could be prussiking back up the rope.
Having loads of extra rigging rope is always a good idea as it gives you greater scope for getting an extra anchor point involved.
I've only ever abbed on a single stake when it's been of the "architectural" variety, and even then with a fair degree of paranoia. I always work on the basis that if something goes wrong I could be prussiking back up the rope.
Having loads of extra rigging rope is always a good idea as it gives you greater scope for getting an extra anchor point involved.
In reply to Jamie B:
Fair enough. In Pembroke, away from St Govs and the Leap, one stake seems pretty normal. Sometimes a pretty crap one at that, and everyone seems not to die.
Fair enough. In Pembroke, away from St Govs and the Leap, one stake seems pretty normal. Sometimes a pretty crap one at that, and everyone seems not to die.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I guess that it's down to what you're used to. If I was going to Pembroke every weekend my tolerances might change. As it is, I don't do a huge amount of sea-cliff climbing, and even less where stakes are involved, so I tend to be healthily gripped even before I get out of the car - this breeds caution!
I guess that it's down to what you're used to. If I was going to Pembroke every weekend my tolerances might change. As it is, I don't do a huge amount of sea-cliff climbing, and even less where stakes are involved, so I tend to be healthily gripped even before I get out of the car - this breeds caution!
In reply to Jon Stewart:
As I recall, many of the stakes used for Pembroke were borrowed from roadworks en route from the Midlands.
As I recall, many of the stakes used for Pembroke were borrowed from roadworks en route from the Midlands.
In reply to pff:
If you don't trust the the stakes, use the anthills!
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/50/64/506409_af176950.jpg
If you don't trust the the stakes, use the anthills!
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/50/64/506409_af176950.jpg
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Ah - "road-swag"; a whole new moral dilemma!
> As I recall, many of the stakes used for Pembroke were borrowed from roadworks en route from the Midlands.
Ah - "road-swag"; a whole new moral dilemma!
In reply to pff:
Much relevant discussion here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=509351
Dave
Much relevant discussion here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=509351
Dave
In reply to John2:
There's rich irony in there somewhere; it presumably felt somewhat outclassed!
> One of the stakes at Subluminal had a former life as a Belisha beacon.
There's rich irony in there somewhere; it presumably felt somewhat outclassed!
In reply to Monkey_Alan:
Thanks for that!
As I said we didn't die, but to be fair they never took any loading greater than the heaviest of us at 12.5 stone!
Thanks for that!
As I said we didn't die, but to be fair they never took any loading greater than the heaviest of us at 12.5 stone!
In reply to pff:
Thanks for all the replies, the whirligy thingy for clothes lines is an interesting idea. I havnt checked the links yet cos im on my smartphone, but im also wondering ,if everyone that has used anchors like this takes them out afterwards. I was thinking of driving a round pipe down below the surface and then sliding a length of rebar into it before each session.
Thanks for all the replies, the whirligy thingy for clothes lines is an interesting idea. I havnt checked the links yet cos im on my smartphone, but im also wondering ,if everyone that has used anchors like this takes them out afterwards. I was thinking of driving a round pipe down below the surface and then sliding a length of rebar into it before each session.
In reply to pff:
I have used these as belay stakes and have abseiled off them.
http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/fencing-paving-decking/fencing/fixings___tool...
I bashed them in using a locally sourced rock and they can be removed and taken away quite easily.
I have used these as belay stakes and have abseiled off them.
http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/fencing-paving-decking/fencing/fixings___tool...
I bashed them in using a locally sourced rock and they can be removed and taken away quite easily.
In reply to deepstar:
south stack?
> youtube.com/watch?v=0Exct2_so5M& Puts it all in perspective really.
south stack?
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I wouldn't fully agree with that, i've lived and climbed in pembrokeshire for the last 7 years and on any crags where i've only had one stake to ab off i have always found some pretty reasonable rock anchors to back it up. This does sometimes require a bit of a hunt and some inventive equalising though.
> Fair enough. In Pembroke, away from St Govs and the Leap, one stake seems pretty normal. Sometimes a pretty crap one at that, and everyone seems not to die.
I wouldn't fully agree with that, i've lived and climbed in pembrokeshire for the last 7 years and on any crags where i've only had one stake to ab off i have always found some pretty reasonable rock anchors to back it up. This does sometimes require a bit of a hunt and some inventive equalising though.
In reply to deepstar:
I happened to see that one this evening on a tv channel.
I happened to see that one this evening on a tv channel.
In reply to cuppatea:
Funny how we are willing to lead on RP's and yet will only ab off an RSJ.
4 inch nails and screws are plenty to hold a piece of wood in place which you can stand on - subsrate specific for sure. Marque tents are held up with relaively small pegs in dirt.
I think if an anchor is doubtfull, put plenty more in. A bit like my gear placement.
Sure the winter climbers out there have a few stories about abs and belays, snow bollards etc etc.
Funny how we are willing to lead on RP's and yet will only ab off an RSJ.
4 inch nails and screws are plenty to hold a piece of wood in place which you can stand on - subsrate specific for sure. Marque tents are held up with relaively small pegs in dirt.
I think if an anchor is doubtfull, put plenty more in. A bit like my gear placement.
Sure the winter climbers out there have a few stories about abs and belays, snow bollards etc etc.
In reply to Kevster:
I know what you mean.
I put it down to the psychological difference between willingly trusting an ab anchor versus the "I won't fall but if I do it might hold" morale boost that even a less than bomber runner provides.
I know what you mean.
I put it down to the psychological difference between willingly trusting an ab anchor versus the "I won't fall but if I do it might hold" morale boost that even a less than bomber runner provides.
In reply to Kevster:
For me it's the not knowing what is below the surface, or how far in the rust goes. Last weekend a stake snapped on us. An old rusty pipe thing about 2 inch in diameter. Snapped where it met the grass.
For me it's the not knowing what is below the surface, or how far in the rust goes. Last weekend a stake snapped on us. An old rusty pipe thing about 2 inch in diameter. Snapped where it met the grass.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> Stennis Ford? Wishful Thinking?
You got me there jon. You are correct stennis ford is a single stake, and one that you can lift out by hand. Not sure how i forgot that, it was pretty memorable.
Wishful thinking we did back up, can't remember if it was another stake or some gear but it did involve a seperate rigging rope.
> Always?
> Stennis Ford? Wishful Thinking?
You got me there jon. You are correct stennis ford is a single stake, and one that you can lift out by hand. Not sure how i forgot that, it was pretty memorable.
Wishful thinking we did back up, can't remember if it was another stake or some gear but it did involve a seperate rigging rope.
Post edited at 08:21
In reply to mountain.martin:
Likewise - pretty sure we backed up at Wishful Thinking - but we did have 100m of ab rope so we might have gone back a long way.
> Wishful thinking we did back up, can't remember if it was another stake or some gear but it did involve a seperate rigging rope.
Likewise - pretty sure we backed up at Wishful Thinking - but we did have 100m of ab rope so we might have gone back a long way.
In reply to Martin Hore:
Seems like it's normal to go around carrying kilometers of rope round there then. Each to their own.
Seems like it's normal to go around carrying kilometers of rope round there then. Each to their own.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
You think it is normal to ab off a single stake or carry huge lengths of rigging rope. Neither is normal, you correctly called my claim that i had never used a single stake, but the two you called me on with your obviously extensive knowledge of pembrokeshire approaches are two of the quite few where a single stake or rigging rope are required.
Yes i know this is a generalisation and i'm sure you could quote me quite a few others, but this is the starting out forum, most people making their first ventures away from st govan's and the leap will be fine with just one 50m ab rope.
> Seems like it's normal to go around carrying kilometers of rope round there then. Each to their own.
You think it is normal to ab off a single stake or carry huge lengths of rigging rope. Neither is normal, you correctly called my claim that i had never used a single stake, but the two you called me on with your obviously extensive knowledge of pembrokeshire approaches are two of the quite few where a single stake or rigging rope are required.
Yes i know this is a generalisation and i'm sure you could quote me quite a few others, but this is the starting out forum, most people making their first ventures away from st govan's and the leap will be fine with just one 50m ab rope.
In reply to mountain.martin:
If there is a single ab stake, the best thing to do is to give it a good kick. If in any doubt after that, don't use it.
If there is a single ab stake, the best thing to do is to give it a good kick. If in any doubt after that, don't use it.
In reply to pff:
The HM Coast Guard use 2 large metal steaks.
They must have come to that for some reason, see if i can find some info online
The HM Coast Guard use 2 large metal steaks.
They must have come to that for some reason, see if i can find some info online
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Who needs stakes?
Lay your kilometre of rope away from the top of the crag and ab off that.
I wonder how long it would need to be to have sufficient friction to be safe?
Jim Titt or Rob Durran may know the answer.
> Seems like it's normal to go around carrying kilometers of rope round there then.
Who needs stakes?
Lay your kilometre of rope away from the top of the crag and ab off that.
I wonder how long it would need to be to have sufficient friction to be safe?
Jim Titt or Rob Durran may know the answer.
In reply to 45networker:
I think they used to use more than two, placed in series. The rope attached to the base of the first stake, the top of the first stake tied to the bottom of the second and so on.
All the above assuming they couldn't get the Landy to the top of the cliff
I need to phone home at some point soon, I will ask a man who will know for definate.
I think they used to use more than two, placed in series. The rope attached to the base of the first stake, the top of the first stake tied to the bottom of the second and so on.
All the above assuming they couldn't get the Landy to the top of the cliff
I need to phone home at some point soon, I will ask a man who will know for definate.
In reply to cuppatea:
The current regime is to use two stakes, angled at 20 degrees and connected by rope.
The current regime is to use two stakes, angled at 20 degrees and connected by rope.
In reply to pff: Ahhmmm by any chance have any of you used a crutch to ab off of? If the wide bit is buried and then just pop the extendable part when you want to use it. No obvious bits of metal sticking out of the ground. "leave no OBVIOUS trace"
In reply to mountain.martin:
Without wishing to trump your 7 years local knowledge martin...
Wishful thinking abseil: Two good stakes, one set farther back but a single 50 is all that is needed to reach the base of the route.
Stennis Ford abseil: Two new galvanised stakes have replaced the one 'removable' scaff bar stake.
Yes i'm bored.
Without wishing to trump your 7 years local knowledge martin...
Wishful thinking abseil: Two good stakes, one set farther back but a single 50 is all that is needed to reach the base of the route.
Stennis Ford abseil: Two new galvanised stakes have replaced the one 'removable' scaff bar stake.
Yes i'm bored.
In reply to Ed morris:
Keep reading the forums then if you are bored, hope you are back on the rock soon.
Don't think we could have got to wishful thinking using 2 points without an extra rigging rope when i went down. 4? Years ago.
The only time i've abbed into stennis ford was 3 years ago, when men were men, and it was just the one loose stake.
Keep reading the forums then if you are bored, hope you are back on the rock soon.
Don't think we could have got to wishful thinking using 2 points without an extra rigging rope when i went down. 4? Years ago.
The only time i've abbed into stennis ford was 3 years ago, when men were men, and it was just the one loose stake.
In reply to pec:
600m long? Recon youd need a full drilling team to get that in! Still though safety first I guess
> I have used these as belay stakes and have abseiled off them.
> I bashed them in using a locally sourced rock and they can be removed and taken away quite easily.
600m long? Recon youd need a full drilling team to get that in! Still though safety first I guess
In reply to ActionSte:
It probably wasn't that long, more like 450mm I should think but it was a long time ago. I just used that link to show what they are and where you can get them.
It probably wasn't that long, more like 450mm I should think but it was a long time ago. I just used that link to show what they are and where you can get them.
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