/ Can't figure out the new Grivel double spring 2.0 leash

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Kai - on 16 Dec 2013
The new Grivel 2.0 spring leash is strange. It has a swivel like the Black Diamond leash, but the swivel seems to be set up to attach to your harness via a carabiner? (maybe, can't really tell, because there seems to be a larks foot loop on the other strand. Anyone used this? How does it work?

http://promountainsports.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/g/...
a crap climber - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to Kai:

I'd hazard a guess that the loop larks foots to your harness and you clip each axe with the crabs. Looks like an odd set up, presumably an attempt to reduce tangling but could easily be worse than a normal springer leash
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to Kai:

Swivel Krab to Harness, Larks foot or put krab through loop to tool. The other krab to second tool.
Cameron94 on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to Kai:

Larksfoot the closed loop to your harness and the two biners on the spikes of the axes...
CurlyStevo - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to Cameron94: im sure your right but it seems to cause more issues than it solves. Having the swivel at the axe adds unwanted weight to the wrong end of the axe and if you do fall on to your axes it makes a bigger fall on to a lanyard much more likely. I can see that the swivel would work a bit better but I dont find problems with the way the bd spinner works.

L.A. on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
From Grivel website...
The Double Spring is attached to the harness by looping it through the tape ring over the harness itself.
The two ice axes are attached with 2 small carabiners to the holes on the spike (max 750kg).
Permits easy changeovers of hands and tools.
The two sections are so elastic that they donít impede any movement and allow maximum arm extension when required.
In reply to L.A.:

Think they've just copied some of the copy from the original spring leash as that doesn't make sense when you look at the picture of the 2.0 version. It must be as the guy above said, larks foot into one tool, swivel krab on your harness, screwgate krab to other tool?
masa-alpin - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to L.A.:
In using as Grivel website explains (as L.A. cited), I am afraid it drastically reduces an advantage the Black Diamond spring leash offers. That is, in the BD one, with axe(s) placed well they offer a back-up in case you fall, whereas the security this Grivel double-spring 2.0 offers is much reduced because of the configuration of the leash part.
I know the BD leash is not fully rated, but they are in practice pretty strong and I have indeed witnessed it to arrest a fairly bad fall with a high fall factor (the spring is so elastic that it must be a really good shock absorbed to reduce the maximum impact force). It certainly gives me a significant psychological boost.
In that respect, this Grivel one is not superior to the BD one, at least for me.
Masa
angry pirate - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to TobyA:

> Think they've just copied some of the copy from the original spring leash as that doesn't make sense when you look at the picture of the 2.0 version. It must be as the guy above said, larks foot into one tool, swivel krab on your harness, screwgate krab to other tool?

That's what it looks like but surely that's daft? One of the points of using krabs on the tool is so you can release the leash when needed, i.e. if tangled etc. Otherwise we'd just maillon them on.
I genuinely can't work out what they're trying to acheive.
CurlyStevo - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to TobyA:

its loop larks footed to harness crabs on to the axes http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/accessories/63-double_spring_20
CurlyStevo - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to masa-alpin:

> I know the BD leash is not fully rated, but they are in practice pretty strong and I have indeed witnessed it to arrest a fairly bad fall with a high fall factor (the spring is so elastic that it must be a really good shock absorbed to reduce the maximum impact force).

yup I agree


In reply to CurlyStevo:

In which case you get a lower case Y shape rather than the normal V with one length of the leash running just between the two axes? What's the point of that? And how would you stow one tool and keep the other in hand? And what's the point of having the twisty-krab then?

billy no-mates - on 16 Dec 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> its loop larks footed to harness crabs on to the axes http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/accessories/63-double_spring_20

The description is identical to that of the double spring leash. It is pretty obvious that they have been lazy on their website. It's a wise mans guide, but a fools bible.
CurlyStevo - on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to billy no-mates:
from the grivel webpage I linked to:

"The Double Spring is attached to the harness by looping it through the tape ring over the harness itself. The two ice axes are attached with 2 small carabiners to the holes on the spike (max 750kg)."
Post edited at 08:15
CurlyStevo - on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to TobyA:
It does seem to be an odd design. Infact nearly all the grivel leashes seem a bit odd - they'd have been better copying the bd spinner!

Its pretty obvious what the twisty crab does no? If you switch hands for axes it stops them getting tangled up (for example traversing right and continuely leaving the right hand axe in the ice switching it to the left hand and moving the other axe to the right and placing it - and repeat, without the spinny thing you'd end up with tangles.)
Post edited at 08:38
In reply to CurlyStevo:

I think Billy is just trying to explain to you that Grivel's text for the 2.0 is exactly the same as for the original version (at http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/accessories/41-double_spring ) right down to the same product code. I presumed as well that whoever updated their website just copied the product information from the original version as the description makes sense for the original spring leash but sounds very odd for the 2.0.
CurlyStevo - on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to TobyA:

Ok I see what he means now, although I suspect it does connect in the same way, IMO it wouldn't make sense for Grivel to use a biner (with no swivel) to one axe and a larks footed loop to the other
Hay - on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to TobyA:
Couldnt work out if this has been cleared up yet but...
Pass loop through spike hole on hammer and the pull up and pass over the head. Tool is now larks footed on.
Clip spinner to harness.
Clip other min locker to other axe.

Bruce
smuffy on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to Kai:

For all of you that have the basic Grivel Springer leash you can now buy the rotating carabiner seperatley, turning your springer leash into a spinner leash. Got mine for £8.50 off ebay. Certainly beats buying complete new spinner leash.
CurlyStevo - on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to Hay:

why would the other axe also not be larks footed on?
ads.ukclimbing.com
CurlyStevo - on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to smuffy:

whats the item called? (or alternatively could you email me a link to the ebay item you bought)

Thanks,
Stevo
Hay - on 17 Dec 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I had have the Blue Ice one which is larks footed to both tools.
It is a pain to un-larks foot when pottering/plunging and if you need to bury a tool for belay.
Also the loop is not big enough to fit over a bigger adze.
Having one loop cuts the cost (guessing mini screwgates are dear) and eliminates the random unclipping that can happen with snap gates. Happened to me once.
Bruce
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Kai:

I asked grivel about this and they got back to me. It appears the website is wrong and the Grivel 2.0 spring leash connects to the harness by the swivel biner and the axes are connected with one of them being larks footed and the other using the supplied biner.
Jamie B - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Dislike. Don't want to be larks-footed onto an axe, too much faff to connect and disconnect. Won't be buying.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Jamie B:

for nearly the same weight/cost you could have a swivel connected to a larks foot for the harness and a small biner to each axe.
Jamie B - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

It just seems over-industrialised. My credo is still very much that lanyards are a lightweight tether to stop you dropping tools, not some sort of point of aid or fall-arrest.
CurlyStevo - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Jamie B:
I have the BD spinner, the main thing I don't like about that is the axes can unclip them selves quite easily so the tethers really are a back up and definately not for leaving your axes hanging off whilst you do other things, also I'd like the biners to be just a bit beefier ideally so they would be more likely to hold small falls and also allow the tethers to be integrated in to a belay in a more meaning full way..
Post edited at 14:54
nniff - on 07 Jan 2014
In reply to Kai:

Having one krab and one larks foot may well be fine for just untangling a pair of axes, but unfortunately one of my favourite tricks is managing to clip a piece of gear over one half of my BD spinner leash. It's a PITA but at least I can unclip the trapped axe and reclip it over the rope, but with this, it looks like a right faff.

I know that trapping an axe behind a rope is pure operator error, but sadly that's the way this operator tends to operate all too often! :o(

For those of you wondering how someone could consistently do something so stupid, it goes like this. Move up and to the right to a nice runner placement in the right wall of a gully. Tools placed comfortably at shoulder height. Place a runner to the right, reach down to the left where the ropes are, lift the rope up and clip on the right wall, take hold of the axes again and realise that the rope now passes above leashes but below arms - not clever. On a good day I realise this before I move up. On a bad day, I realise when the rope comes tight across the leash or lifts the runner out. there are numerous variations on this form of knitting. Sporting weather always adds an additional element of confusion to the faff
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Oh, I so LURRRRVE being right.

So,

<drum-roll please>

....

Told you so.

;-)
In reply to nniff:

I remember doing exactly the same first time I tried making simple cord leashes, so you're in good company! :)

JamieB, I imagine this new Grivel leash is designed with people like me in mind who mainly ice climb to a tree at the top or v-thread or bolt lower off and ab down. One tool is almost normally clipped straight away into a krab or your ice clipper on one side and not touched again until you're back at your pack having a coffee from the flask and a sarnie. If you need a tool in your hand for the last bit of steep snow back down from the base of the icefall, well you've got the one krab on the leash to release that tool easily. It seems that lots of people get bothered by the clickety clack of having a krab into the krab hole on a tools spike so add a cord loop. I guess larks footing tape into it avoids that issue. You hardy proper mountaineer types obviously need both tools for easier ground at the top of routes often so I see why having a leash larks footed in would be a hassle.

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