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Hi All.....
The SVG (Sandstone Volunteers' Group) will be working at High Rocks on the 1st February 2014 from 10:00 (Note: change of start time – was 09:30).
The work will involve cutting (mainly) Rhododendron back to the crag edge in a number of areas where the climbs below are overhung.
Some of the areas to be cut will involve some rope work so if you have an abseil rope, harness, descender, helmet etc. please bring them.
There is plenty to do that doesn’t involve hanging from ropes.
The most useful tools are bowsaw and long handled pruners/loppers and the majority of the work will be cutting Rhododendron.
There is some work cutting the sycamore and birch saplings from the lower slope of the northern end of the crag.
It will probably be cold and may well be raining so please dress appropriately. A helmet is a good idea as well as there may be vegetation falling...
I surveyed the crag on the 17th Jan and have a good idea of what is required but we must cut sensitively and not leave the crag edges exposed to the public so please find out what needs to be done before starting work. See below. **Please come and find/speak to me before starting any work **
If you can come out and help, please let me know as soon as possible.
Please also note that we will be working at Bull’s Hollow on the 22nd February from 09:30.
Please come out and help us restore the crag – there’s around half a day’s work if we can get a reasonable attendance.
It would be helpful is you’d reply and let me know if you can help at Bull’s Hollow.
Thanks,
Graham.
Post edited at 21:13
In reply to Graham Ad:
Hi Graham.
It is with a twinge of regret that I'm afraid I won't be able to come and help at High Rocks.
This is entirely due to the fact that whenever I want to go and climb there, they insist on relieving me of ten quid.
So i'm damned if I'll do their gardening for them for free!
Hi Graham.
It is with a twinge of regret that I'm afraid I won't be able to come and help at High Rocks.
This is entirely due to the fact that whenever I want to go and climb there, they insist on relieving me of ten quid.
So i'm damned if I'll do their gardening for them for free!
Post edited at 00:26
In reply to Oceanrower:
Hi Oceanrower...
That's unfortunate and I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps I can give you the facts.
The grounds at High rocks are well kept by their gardner(s). They keep the paths clear and the Rhododendron growth up to the crag in check.
They keep the Rhodies up to the crag edge cut back.
What they don't do is cut the rhodies that overhang the crag edge and prevent the climbs from being completed.
The work the volunteers' group will carry out is the last part to remove Rhodie growth from the crag faces and the finishes.
We will also keep the sycamore and silver birch saplings cut on the lower slopes so that the sun and wind can get to the crag to keep it dry and allow some of the more moisture-prone climbs to remain in condition.
This will allow you and all climbers to enjoy the routes on offer at High Rocks but thanks for reminding everyone that you pay to climb at High Rocks. Well, maybe you don't??
Hi Oceanrower...
That's unfortunate and I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps I can give you the facts.
The grounds at High rocks are well kept by their gardner(s). They keep the paths clear and the Rhododendron growth up to the crag in check.
They keep the Rhodies up to the crag edge cut back.
What they don't do is cut the rhodies that overhang the crag edge and prevent the climbs from being completed.
The work the volunteers' group will carry out is the last part to remove Rhodie growth from the crag faces and the finishes.
We will also keep the sycamore and silver birch saplings cut on the lower slopes so that the sun and wind can get to the crag to keep it dry and allow some of the more moisture-prone climbs to remain in condition.
This will allow you and all climbers to enjoy the routes on offer at High Rocks but thanks for reminding everyone that you pay to climb at High Rocks. Well, maybe you don't??
In reply to Graham Ad:
I have to agree with Oceanrower here, its a bit cheeky to ask for volunteers for a crag you have to pay to use....
Maybe the SVG time and effort would be better spent at some of the other SS crags that could use it.....
I have to agree with Oceanrower here, its a bit cheeky to ask for volunteers for a crag you have to pay to use....
Maybe the SVG time and effort would be better spent at some of the other SS crags that could use it.....
In reply to cfer:
But isn't this all about climbers maintaining a facility for the benefit of themselves and fellow climbers? It's not being done to benefit the landowner, it's being done for climbers. The fact that the owner charges an entry fee is beside the point, he is not running a climbing facility, he just permits climbing there for a fee, which as a land owner he has every right to do. This is a climbing facility which will be lost or at least substantially reduced if it's not maintained by the climbing community.
If you never climb at High Rocks, fine,don't turn up if you don't want to, but if you do, then it's a perfectly reasonable request from the SVG.
But isn't this all about climbers maintaining a facility for the benefit of themselves and fellow climbers? It's not being done to benefit the landowner, it's being done for climbers. The fact that the owner charges an entry fee is beside the point, he is not running a climbing facility, he just permits climbing there for a fee, which as a land owner he has every right to do. This is a climbing facility which will be lost or at least substantially reduced if it's not maintained by the climbing community.
If you never climb at High Rocks, fine,don't turn up if you don't want to, but if you do, then it's a perfectly reasonable request from the SVG.
In reply to cfer:
High Rocks didn't ask for help.
Local climbers put in a lot of effort in 2005 when we restored High Rocks to climbable condition.
This work is simply maintenance to keep the Rhodies back - and ensure that all the effort put in doesn't get lost to regrowth.
As a matter of interest, which other crags need work? I'd be keen to find out.
We have a day planned at Bull's Hollow on 22nd Feb and a day at Stone Farm in March.
Harrison's Rocks had 2 full days of volunteer work back in November...
By all means come and help.
Cheers,
Graham.
High Rocks didn't ask for help.
Local climbers put in a lot of effort in 2005 when we restored High Rocks to climbable condition.
This work is simply maintenance to keep the Rhodies back - and ensure that all the effort put in doesn't get lost to regrowth.
As a matter of interest, which other crags need work? I'd be keen to find out.
We have a day planned at Bull's Hollow on 22nd Feb and a day at Stone Farm in March.
Harrison's Rocks had 2 full days of volunteer work back in November...
By all means come and help.
Cheers,
Graham.
In reply to Graham Ad:
I never have climbed at High Rocks but have and still do at other SS sites when I am out and about, I am not disputing his right as a landowner to charge for access just that I think its not where the best effort for SVG could go..
I always carried litter out with me at any crags I visit, whether SS or not.
Harrisons, Bulls Hollow(which SVG did some great work on 10 yrs ago), Eridge, Happy Valley, Stone Farm could all do with a clean up and litter being picked.
I would be more inclined to help with any of these than at a crag that you need to pay for access to.
I never have climbed at High Rocks but have and still do at other SS sites when I am out and about, I am not disputing his right as a landowner to charge for access just that I think its not where the best effort for SVG could go..
I always carried litter out with me at any crags I visit, whether SS or not.
Harrisons, Bulls Hollow(which SVG did some great work on 10 yrs ago), Eridge, Happy Valley, Stone Farm could all do with a clean up and litter being picked.
I would be more inclined to help with any of these than at a crag that you need to pay for access to.
In reply to cfer:
I think, maybe, as you've never climbed at High Rocks you'd not appreciate the reason for keeping it in good condition for climbing.
Cheers,
Graham.
I think, maybe, as you've never climbed at High Rocks you'd not appreciate the reason for keeping it in good condition for climbing.
Cheers,
Graham.
In reply to Graham Ad:
but the work put in to hr does make it a better crag and therefore hr will make more money in the long run. Can you not negotiate say one free visit when the crags in nick for all volunteers that put in at least half a day as a goodwill gesture? cheers stevo
but the work put in to hr does make it a better crag and therefore hr will make more money in the long run. Can you not negotiate say one free visit when the crags in nick for all volunteers that put in at least half a day as a goodwill gesture? cheers stevo
In reply to Graham Ad:
Graham,
I'll be there, even though I rarely climb at High Rocks (most of the climbs being too hard for an old lard-arse like me!).
Having seen the way the whole High Rocks thing developed, with the various fence-cuttings, certain climbers abusing staff etc, I can say that the reason for the high climbing charge now, compared to when it used to be similar to general access, is quite understandable.
Not saying I agree with Mr Cappellazi's position, just that I understand it. Given that his main revenue from the rocks is for wedding parties, school proms etc, he's not going to put a lot of effort into maintaining it for climbers.
A lot of people may not realise that it was only due to strong representations over a considerable period by members of the SVG and other local activists that climbing at High Rocks wasan't completely banned after Mr C's frustrations with the selfish few boiled over.
Graham,
I'll be there, even though I rarely climb at High Rocks (most of the climbs being too hard for an old lard-arse like me!).
Having seen the way the whole High Rocks thing developed, with the various fence-cuttings, certain climbers abusing staff etc, I can say that the reason for the high climbing charge now, compared to when it used to be similar to general access, is quite understandable.
Not saying I agree with Mr Cappellazi's position, just that I understand it. Given that his main revenue from the rocks is for wedding parties, school proms etc, he's not going to put a lot of effort into maintaining it for climbers.
A lot of people may not realise that it was only due to strong representations over a considerable period by members of the SVG and other local activists that climbing at High Rocks wasan't completely banned after Mr C's frustrations with the selfish few boiled over.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I'm really not in the business of negotiating rewards for those who volunteer to come out and help. In any case, it's difficult to see what basis I'd be negotiating on.
High Rocks' profits from climbing are of little interest to me. My interest is to make it a better crag for climbers and keep the place open for climbing. If, as a result of our efforts, a few more climbers come to High Rocks and enjoy choss-free routes then that's fine. It also means that the crag is clean for me to climb on being the selfish b***** that I am.
Cheers,
Graham.
I'm really not in the business of negotiating rewards for those who volunteer to come out and help. In any case, it's difficult to see what basis I'd be negotiating on.
High Rocks' profits from climbing are of little interest to me. My interest is to make it a better crag for climbers and keep the place open for climbing. If, as a result of our efforts, a few more climbers come to High Rocks and enjoy choss-free routes then that's fine. It also means that the crag is clean for me to climb on being the selfish b***** that I am.
Cheers,
Graham.
Post edited at 19:44
In reply to Graham Ad:
Just to add that the owner did give season tickets to all who put in more than a certain amount of time on the 2005 work - he volunteered it, we didn't have to 'negotiate' for it!
Yes £10 is quite a bit, but as Rob says, he increased it to that level because of his frustration with the holes being made in the fence - possibly not all by climbers but he thought that many of the holes had been made by climbers. There is also a concession that the day rate is reduced to £5 if you sign in with a season ticket holder.
In case anyone is wondering, you don't have to pay to go in on the workday!
Bob
Just to add that the owner did give season tickets to all who put in more than a certain amount of time on the 2005 work - he volunteered it, we didn't have to 'negotiate' for it!
Yes £10 is quite a bit, but as Rob says, he increased it to that level because of his frustration with the holes being made in the fence - possibly not all by climbers but he thought that many of the holes had been made by climbers. There is also a concession that the day rate is reduced to £5 if you sign in with a season ticket holder.
In case anyone is wondering, you don't have to pay to go in on the workday!
Bob
In reply to Graham Ad:
Just bumping this back up to the top as the SVG day (see abive!) is this coming Saturday. Any additional help would be welcomed.
...and don't forget, there's a day at Bull's Hollow on the 22nd Feb...
Thanks,
Graham.
Just bumping this back up to the top as the SVG day (see abive!) is this coming Saturday. Any additional help would be welcomed.
...and don't forget, there's a day at Bull's Hollow on the 22nd Feb...
Thanks,
Graham.
In reply to Graham Ad:
You'd be negotiating on the basis that climbing at HR has always been a profit making exercise for them. They are getting the site maintained for climbing for free which allows them to better realise that profit. The least they could do is reward those that have helped with a complementary climb.
I don't climb there mainly as it takes a while to dry out and £10 is a lot of money for an afternoon. Most weekends I'd rather be trad climbing on swanage than paying to climb at HR. I must admit I am against paying to climb outdoors in general but I can see this is a special case. Bowles I feel the payment is unnecessary although it does go to charity I would like to see the payment removed in principle as they are an outdoor centre so should be sympathetic to climbers. I imagine they could make a lot more money offering / better advertising indoor to outdoor transition courses for top roping purposes.
Southern Sandstone is probably the most restricted rock in the UK in terms of being allowed to climb on - a fairly large proportion of the exposed rock climbing is banned on and I don't really buy that's because the SE is so over populated (those parts of East Sussex and Kent are not heavily populated), more to do with the type of people that own the land around there.
You'd be negotiating on the basis that climbing at HR has always been a profit making exercise for them. They are getting the site maintained for climbing for free which allows them to better realise that profit. The least they could do is reward those that have helped with a complementary climb.
I don't climb there mainly as it takes a while to dry out and £10 is a lot of money for an afternoon. Most weekends I'd rather be trad climbing on swanage than paying to climb at HR. I must admit I am against paying to climb outdoors in general but I can see this is a special case. Bowles I feel the payment is unnecessary although it does go to charity I would like to see the payment removed in principle as they are an outdoor centre so should be sympathetic to climbers. I imagine they could make a lot more money offering / better advertising indoor to outdoor transition courses for top roping purposes.
Southern Sandstone is probably the most restricted rock in the UK in terms of being allowed to climb on - a fairly large proportion of the exposed rock climbing is banned on and I don't really buy that's because the SE is so over populated (those parts of East Sussex and Kent are not heavily populated), more to do with the type of people that own the land around there.
In reply to Graham Ad:
Hi Graham,
We'll be there on Saturday. Latest on the forecast (for what they're worth) is that it'll be pretty wet overnight Friday into the early hours of Sat morning and after that should be sunny spells with outside chance of a shower.
Surely for any regular SE climber who's climbing 5c or above it's a bit of a no-brainer to get a season ticket. Don't think I got it down to under £1 a visit last year, unlike some previous years, but still worth it for the best crag in the area. Whilst it may be anathema to pay to climb I suspect that the arrangements there are as good as they could be, and certainly better than a complete ban - and for those who don't know the place it's far too close to the owners/staff to get in un-noticed if climbing was banned.
Hi Graham,
We'll be there on Saturday. Latest on the forecast (for what they're worth) is that it'll be pretty wet overnight Friday into the early hours of Sat morning and after that should be sunny spells with outside chance of a shower.
Surely for any regular SE climber who's climbing 5c or above it's a bit of a no-brainer to get a season ticket. Don't think I got it down to under £1 a visit last year, unlike some previous years, but still worth it for the best crag in the area. Whilst it may be anathema to pay to climb I suspect that the arrangements there are as good as they could be, and certainly better than a complete ban - and for those who don't know the place it's far too close to the owners/staff to get in un-noticed if climbing was banned.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Most people that complain don’t actually climb at high rocks. But sometimes we have to put in the work without reward to make the world a better place. Yes the OWNERS of High Rocks who OWN the crag are charging £10 a go and yes £5 would be much better, but a simple season ticket of £45 is very much worth it if you’re planning to go a number of times in the year. Compare it to climbing on plastic. That season ticket is the same price as four afternoons at the castle (in some cases evenings). For most people that’s equal to 2 weeks’ worth of climbing if you go twice a week?
Registered Climbers:£12
Registration fee £5
Non-Registered Climbers £13
Monthly: £65
Yearly: £460
The owner just wants to know who is on his land and yes make some money as money pays for his gardeners and every little bit helps.
The work being carried out by the SGV has not been deemed as essential by the owner (work out the rest for yourself) but this is something that will benefit climbers and hence has kindly agreed to allow us to do the work that benefits us the climber)
The SVG or Graham who organises the events does not deserve criticism from any one and does not need to convince people why the work is being done. If there was no SVG then there would be many crags that would be unclimbable in places, paths that are un walkable, environments lost to the wild and potentially lost. No one gets paid and every one goes the extra mile. It’s a place to meet friendly people and get involved with the sandstone community at large.
www.Southernsandstoneclimbs.co.uk is a website for all things sandstone and the people who run it do so to communicate everything that people need to know about sandstone.
Also Bowles and payment, have you noticed that there is a toilet for climbers at Bowles, bolts and resin work being carried out. The money raised by people climbing at Bowles is put back into the rocks and put towards the facility's available.
Most people that complain don’t actually climb at high rocks. But sometimes we have to put in the work without reward to make the world a better place. Yes the OWNERS of High Rocks who OWN the crag are charging £10 a go and yes £5 would be much better, but a simple season ticket of £45 is very much worth it if you’re planning to go a number of times in the year. Compare it to climbing on plastic. That season ticket is the same price as four afternoons at the castle (in some cases evenings). For most people that’s equal to 2 weeks’ worth of climbing if you go twice a week?
Registered Climbers:£12
Registration fee £5
Non-Registered Climbers £13
Monthly: £65
Yearly: £460
The owner just wants to know who is on his land and yes make some money as money pays for his gardeners and every little bit helps.
The work being carried out by the SGV has not been deemed as essential by the owner (work out the rest for yourself) but this is something that will benefit climbers and hence has kindly agreed to allow us to do the work that benefits us the climber)
The SVG or Graham who organises the events does not deserve criticism from any one and does not need to convince people why the work is being done. If there was no SVG then there would be many crags that would be unclimbable in places, paths that are un walkable, environments lost to the wild and potentially lost. No one gets paid and every one goes the extra mile. It’s a place to meet friendly people and get involved with the sandstone community at large.
www.Southernsandstoneclimbs.co.uk is a website for all things sandstone and the people who run it do so to communicate everything that people need to know about sandstone.
Also Bowles and payment, have you noticed that there is a toilet for climbers at Bowles, bolts and resin work being carried out. The money raised by people climbing at Bowles is put back into the rocks and put towards the facility's available.
In reply to Daimon - Rockfax:
"Most people that complain don’t actually climb at high rocks"
Well I'm not sure when I first climbed there but it was certainly sometime between 1984 and 1994.
" Yes the OWNERS of High Rocks who OWN the crag are charging £10 a go and yes £5 would be much better, but a simple season ticket of £45 is very much worth it if you’re planning to go a number of times in the year. Compare it to climbing on plastic"
Its not really the amount of money that bothers me and yes a full day at HR for a tenner is OK value compared to indoors. But I do disagree with the principle of paying to climb outdoors on rocks. Expecting climbers to then maintain the rocks for free is a further step in the wrong direction IMO.
HR are setting a precedent here that is the thin end of the wedge IMO and I'm disappointed Bowles who probably has climbers within its staff also does this. As mentioned I think they could find more money if its actually needed by other means.
"The money raised by people climbing at Bowles is put back into the rocks and put towards the facility's available."
I doubt all the money Bowles collects from climbers goes directly back in to the rocks as such as they operate a lot of facilities other than climbing. The toilets and anchors don't appear to have changed to me in many years and of course are used by their paying clients as well by climbers. I don't see evidence that climbers really degrade these much by also using them. I don't believe Bowles regularly use much resin / cement for the up keep of the rocks now a days and instead prefer an application of hardening chemicals.
"Most people that complain don’t actually climb at high rocks"
Well I'm not sure when I first climbed there but it was certainly sometime between 1984 and 1994.
" Yes the OWNERS of High Rocks who OWN the crag are charging £10 a go and yes £5 would be much better, but a simple season ticket of £45 is very much worth it if you’re planning to go a number of times in the year. Compare it to climbing on plastic"
Its not really the amount of money that bothers me and yes a full day at HR for a tenner is OK value compared to indoors. But I do disagree with the principle of paying to climb outdoors on rocks. Expecting climbers to then maintain the rocks for free is a further step in the wrong direction IMO.
HR are setting a precedent here that is the thin end of the wedge IMO and I'm disappointed Bowles who probably has climbers within its staff also does this. As mentioned I think they could find more money if its actually needed by other means.
"The money raised by people climbing at Bowles is put back into the rocks and put towards the facility's available."
I doubt all the money Bowles collects from climbers goes directly back in to the rocks as such as they operate a lot of facilities other than climbing. The toilets and anchors don't appear to have changed to me in many years and of course are used by their paying clients as well by climbers. I don't see evidence that climbers really degrade these much by also using them. I don't believe Bowles regularly use much resin / cement for the up keep of the rocks now a days and instead prefer an application of hardening chemicals.
In reply to Daimon - Rockfax:
Clearly it's up to individual climbers to decide whether or not to climb at High, but for anyone who hasn't made a decision one way or the other, I recommend that the read Graham's UKC article 'Why pay to climb at High Rocks' at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2624. As Robin says, the quality of the climbs at 5c and above and a few below that grade is undeniable.
The owner has left those of us who've spoken to him in no doubt that his main income is from weddings and the Rocks are often used as a background for the photos. Any income from climbers is incidental to him.
Clearly it's up to individual climbers to decide whether or not to climb at High, but for anyone who hasn't made a decision one way or the other, I recommend that the read Graham's UKC article 'Why pay to climb at High Rocks' at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2624. As Robin says, the quality of the climbs at 5c and above and a few below that grade is undeniable.
The owner has left those of us who've spoken to him in no doubt that his main income is from weddings and the Rocks are often used as a background for the photos. Any income from climbers is incidental to him.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
"Expecting climbers to then maintain the rocks for free is a further step in the wrong direction IMO"
- There really is no expectation from High Rocks. We, the local climbers volunteer because we enjoy the rocks and want them to be in the best shape. The rocks are on private land which could easily be banned, this access situation is the best we are going to get so we work with it.
Regarding Bowles, there was a brand new toilet block built within the last 5 years and the anchors are maintained more than you think. Also, not many of Bowles "paying clients" tend to do any of the harder routes but all are maintained regardless. Finally, whatever the method, all repairs take time and cost money.
Happy Climbing
"Expecting climbers to then maintain the rocks for free is a further step in the wrong direction IMO"
- There really is no expectation from High Rocks. We, the local climbers volunteer because we enjoy the rocks and want them to be in the best shape. The rocks are on private land which could easily be banned, this access situation is the best we are going to get so we work with it.
Regarding Bowles, there was a brand new toilet block built within the last 5 years and the anchors are maintained more than you think. Also, not many of Bowles "paying clients" tend to do any of the harder routes but all are maintained regardless. Finally, whatever the method, all repairs take time and cost money.
Happy Climbing
In reply to Graham Ad:
Sincere thanks to all who came out on Saturday.
We were lucky with the weather, all things considered, but climbers at High Rocks will benefit hugely from the Rhododendron removal from the top of the crag and on the crag faces and also the removal of saplings from the lower slope at the northern end which should help the crag dry out.
The next SVG working day is Bull's Hollow on the 22nd Feb.
Then it's back to climbing!!
Cheers,
Graham.
Sincere thanks to all who came out on Saturday.
We were lucky with the weather, all things considered, but climbers at High Rocks will benefit hugely from the Rhododendron removal from the top of the crag and on the crag faces and also the removal of saplings from the lower slope at the northern end which should help the crag dry out.
The next SVG working day is Bull's Hollow on the 22nd Feb.
Then it's back to climbing!!
Cheers,
Graham.
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