UKC

I have just returne from my first winter climbing trip in the Alps. We were 4 guys having a great trip, climbing Aiguille du Midi, Petit Aiguille Vert - NW Ridge and Petit Aiguille Vert – Chevalier Coloir.

The trip went well except from the climb up the Chevalier Coloir last wednesday. When we were half way up the coloir we could see some off piste skiers on the top of the cornice on the coloir. They were knocking ice of the slab which kept hitting us and disturbing us while climbing. We shoutet up to get them to move, but they kept looking and were apparantly getting ready to ski down the coloir. Suddenly the whole cornice went down and triggered an avalanche. The only thing we could do was to dig down and hope for the best. We had a put a very good sling protection just before the avalanche came and luckily we all came through without injuries. Our lead climber lost and ice axe and got one crampon broken. Still the fastest way to get out was still to climb up, so we did not really have any other option.

Two of the skiers still insisted on coming down. They should probably be glad for their option to stay on the other side of the coloir beyond our reach. One of them kept shouting at us about how stupid we were to climb in these conditions. He was apparently a local guy from Chamonix who had planned a photo shoot skiing down the same day we came climbing up.

We had talked about the climb with two mountain guides on Monday and Tuesday and they both told us that they tought the coloir would be in good conditions even though it had been snowing heavily on Sunday. One of them took a client up the coloir Tuesday. Both Monday and Tuesday were fine days with little wind and much sun. And there was no wind and snow on Wednesday, but the sky was clouded.

Our opinion is of course that it was the skiers who were some stipid ********.

I am very curious to hear what experience alpinists would say about the situation. How can you make sure that a route is in reasonable conditions? Is there a general problem with off piste skiers in the Chamonix area and if so, how can it be dealt with?

In reply to rukkan:

The general rule (irrespective if you are on skis or climbing) is that you give way to parties who are lower down, or ascending, the mountain. So in this case the skiers are in the wrong.

When skiing gullies in Scotland the general rule is that you wait for any parties below to top out or exit the gully before starting a descent.

However : It could be argued that both groups are irresponsible for being in an avalanche prone couloir in the first place

In reply to rukkan:

If the skiers are aware that somebody is below them, then what they are doing is essentially attempted murder. Morally (tho sadly probably not legally) a good kicking - with crampons still on - would have been entirely in order had they come within reach.

In reply to rukkan:

The problem is more with climbers cluttering up easy couloirs for hours on end rather than 'off piste skiers'...

In reply to rukkan:

And no, it wasn't me, before anyone asks...

In reply to Pinch'a'salt:

Bit of an arrogant reply there, even if it was tongue in cheek. Regardless of who has 'priority' - skiers or climbers, above or below, coming up or going down - knocking a cornice down a couloir/triggering an avalanche sufficiently big to do the amount of damage that this one did - when you KNOW there's someone below you, is clearly wrong.

In reply to jon:

jon, it was meant tongue on cheek (mostly), and I don't condone what the skiers did in any way (sounds like they were being d*cks), and no it wasn't me (or anyone I know, I think) before anyone asks...

However if you are going to go climbing easily accessible snowy couloirs like that around Chamonix then you have to understand that there is a high (extremely high in this day and age) probability that someone will drop in on top of you... The rights and wrongs are irrelevant, this is a simple fact.

In reply to Pinch'a'salt:

Yes, both the top and the bottom of the gully are easily accessible from the Grand Montets lift, so I can see that there sometimes can be clashes between skiers and climbers. We had talked to some experienced climbers and guides about this route before we went and none of them mentioned that there could be problems with skiers here. In guide books this route is also mentioned as a good winter route.

We had contact with the skiers for about 15 minutes before the cornice went down. We shouted and waved to get them to move. We had at least 1hr climbing left and wating in -20c for so long is probably not an option. There photo shoot was obviously very important, so they could not ski down the other side.

There is long between good protections in the lower part of the gully, so we had to climb with long rope. Our lead climber had 15m of rope out when the avalanche came – he bumped 30m down, so we were clearly very lucky to avoid any kind of physical injury or casualties.

I stil think that the skiers were extremely irresponsible, but it is not possible for me to change their attitude. I guess the only thing I can do to avoid incidents like this in the future, is avoiding routes there by any chance can be interfered by off piste skiers.

In reply to rukkan:

I have a lot of experience dealing with dangerous human factor bullshit in the Chamonix area. This sort of thing happens all the time unfortunately, and sometimes people do get hurt.

From a legal standing, I beleive if they had injured or killed you they would be liable.

The Chevalier is a popular ski descent right next to a very busy lift. If you don't want to expose yourself to this sort of hazard, don't climb there. Always assume people may drop in ontop of you. In the winter the Chevalier is considered more of a ski descent than a climb. It can take a while to climb in soft snow conditions, meaning that others then can't ski it or have to risk hurting someone below.

There are plenty of better easy snow and mixed routes were you definitely won't have anyone skiing on you. I would not reccomend anyone to climb the Chevalier when its in a good condition to ski and the lift is open.

In reply to rukkan:
Like Tom says people skiing on top of other skiers and climbers is unfortunately common in Chamonix, especially close to the lifts. The skiers knew you were there and acted very irresponsibly, they should not have skied on top of you full stop.

However do think about what you could have done differently too, choosing a popular ski route with good snow in it is asking for disaster and in some cases a skier may not be aware you are climbing.

In this case you could have tried to cooperate with each other, find a relitivly safe spot with a good rock anchor at the side of the couloir and shelter there for a few minutes while they ski. it would have only ment losing a few minutes for you rather than a long wait for them while you top out(which is what they should have done if you asked them not to ski) and everyone would have been happy.

In reply to Ben Briggs:

Thanks for the good advice!

We climbed mostly in the middle of the coloir and protected on the right side. It was not easy to find good protections in the lower part of the coloir. The snow on the sides was much softer than in the middle, making it very difficult to climb in the sides.

When we saw the skiers on the top we did not expect them to come down. We thought that the coloir was too narrow for both parties and expected them to just ski down on the other side. We were not close to any natural anchor, but were heading for a good spot a little further up. In retro we should have made an anchor as quickly as possible when we saw that the climbers were coming down anyway.