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I'm a member of a mountaineering club based in the north west of England. The club has a strong rock climbing history, with a much smaller walking element.
As with most clubs we are grappling with the issue of an ageing membership with little interest from potential new members. The answers may be obvious, but my questions are:
What prevents people from joining clubs?
What would you like to change?
What would make you think about joining a club in the future?
Honest views appreciated. I believe clubs (and their club huts) are a missed asset for many people in terms of accommodation options and being part of an established group.
As with most clubs we are grappling with the issue of an ageing membership with little interest from potential new members. The answers may be obvious, but my questions are:
What prevents people from joining clubs?
What would you like to change?
What would make you think about joining a club in the future?
Honest views appreciated. I believe clubs (and their club huts) are a missed asset for many people in terms of accommodation options and being part of an established group.
In reply to Robnolan:
I joined a club a couple of years ago, possibly the same one as you? Until a friend asked me along to a meet I had no idea the club existed and knew nothing about the network of huts available.
I suspect many other people are in the same situation or think of clubs as a closed circle.
Overall is the answer publicity? Let people know the club exists and is welcoming to new members
I joined a club a couple of years ago, possibly the same one as you? Until a friend asked me along to a meet I had no idea the club existed and knew nothing about the network of huts available.
I suspect many other people are in the same situation or think of clubs as a closed circle.
Overall is the answer publicity? Let people know the club exists and is welcoming to new members
In reply to Robnolan:
I'm also a member of a NW based club and our salvation has been a facebook page where members can organise evening and weekend meets and trips to the wall. We have a few technophobes who still operate by telephone but they are few and far between. We can organise trips at short notice and everyone who wants to be, can be kept in the loop. The club is now more active than its been for quite a few years with even a few young members.
95% of facebook is a pain but setting up a group like this is really easy.
I'm also a member of a NW based club and our salvation has been a facebook page where members can organise evening and weekend meets and trips to the wall. We have a few technophobes who still operate by telephone but they are few and far between. We can organise trips at short notice and everyone who wants to be, can be kept in the loop. The club is now more active than its been for quite a few years with even a few young members.
95% of facebook is a pain but setting up a group like this is really easy.
In reply to Robnolan:
Groups mean rules and being bossed around. Clubs need to show that is not the case. Clubs are also closed off and only interested in climbing so exclude non-climbing partners and young families.
I tentatively investigated a club near me when I needed a climbing partner and they are nothing like the above. Meets have climbing, MTB, hiking, skiing, road bike, fell running, via ferarta and more going on. The club actively includes families and non-climbers (like my partner) and whilst there is a club constitution somewhere no-one has seen it in a while.
Show you are inclusive or become so. We had dogs and two toddlers at our hut on New Year and the first club walk of the year had a dozen u16s. I wouldn't want it any other way.
If you want new blood then get a decent website, twitter and facebook. The world moves on the web these days, if you want to know about something you Google it.
Groups mean rules and being bossed around. Clubs need to show that is not the case. Clubs are also closed off and only interested in climbing so exclude non-climbing partners and young families.
I tentatively investigated a club near me when I needed a climbing partner and they are nothing like the above. Meets have climbing, MTB, hiking, skiing, road bike, fell running, via ferarta and more going on. The club actively includes families and non-climbers (like my partner) and whilst there is a club constitution somewhere no-one has seen it in a while.
Show you are inclusive or become so. We had dogs and two toddlers at our hut on New Year and the first club walk of the year had a dozen u16s. I wouldn't want it any other way.
If you want new blood then get a decent website, twitter and facebook. The world moves on the web these days, if you want to know about something you Google it.
In reply to Robnolan:
Dahn here in London the clubs all use meetup.com to advertise socials, or more importantly, sessions at a local wall. A lot of people are on the look for more/new climbing partners, and using that as a "way into" joining a club with wider aims seems to be very successful.
One does a once-a-month "lucky dip" climbing night where partners are drawn out of a hat, and redrawn every half hour or so. A good way for new people to get to know lots of club members quickly.
Dahn here in London the clubs all use meetup.com to advertise socials, or more importantly, sessions at a local wall. A lot of people are on the look for more/new climbing partners, and using that as a "way into" joining a club with wider aims seems to be very successful.
One does a once-a-month "lucky dip" climbing night where partners are drawn out of a hat, and redrawn every half hour or so. A good way for new people to get to know lots of club members quickly.
In reply to Robnolan:
Actually, university clubs are thriving. And they opened their doors to non-students some time ago, so its not just about the great unwashed.
From their perspective, what is a club for? Apart from being a good laugh, a piss-up and the potential for spooning, its for sharing one or more of knowledge, gear and transport.
Are there enough people in your area who need those things?
> As with most clubs we are grappling with the issue of an ageing membership with little interest from potential new members.
Actually, university clubs are thriving. And they opened their doors to non-students some time ago, so its not just about the great unwashed.
From their perspective, what is a club for? Apart from being a good laugh, a piss-up and the potential for spooning, its for sharing one or more of knowledge, gear and transport.
Are there enough people in your area who need those things?
Post edited at 00:47
In reply to Robnolan:
had a look a joining a club before christmas , went to their new members night whilst a couple of the old fellas were very welcoming and explaining the meets and the hut , the president was all for ramming the rules and constitution down my throat . i understand there has to be rules but to have them pushed at you on the first night is very off putting . if he had just let the others explain things in a more friendly way then maybe i would have gone to a second meeting , its a shame because my 9 yr old loves climbing and walking and this would have given him a chance to maybe meet other members kids , dont think i will bother with any more clubs as it seems most of the membership is of a older age and what the commitee says is final
had a look a joining a club before christmas , went to their new members night whilst a couple of the old fellas were very welcoming and explaining the meets and the hut , the president was all for ramming the rules and constitution down my throat . i understand there has to be rules but to have them pushed at you on the first night is very off putting . if he had just let the others explain things in a more friendly way then maybe i would have gone to a second meeting , its a shame because my 9 yr old loves climbing and walking and this would have given him a chance to maybe meet other members kids , dont think i will bother with any more clubs as it seems most of the membership is of a older age and what the commitee says is final
In reply to Jonny2vests:
Thats amazing to me, so you are saying that anyone can join a Uni Climbing Club, how much do the Uni Clubs do to let people know this?
Thats amazing to me, so you are saying that anyone can join a Uni Climbing Club, how much do the Uni Clubs do to let people know this?
In reply to GLUF:
Nothing. But it's not like they're trying to hide it, they just have no motivation or means to advertise it. It'll often say on their website though, and they have no choice in the matter, the student union decided exclusion was archaic sometime ago.
> Thats amazing to me, so you are saying that anyone can join a Uni Climbing Club, how much do the Uni Clubs do to let people know this?
Nothing. But it's not like they're trying to hide it, they just have no motivation or means to advertise it. It'll often say on their website though, and they have no choice in the matter, the student union decided exclusion was archaic sometime ago.
In reply to Jonny2vests:
It does depend on the university though, mine won't let anyone join unless they are either a current/alumni student or a member of staff connected to the uni. There rules, not ours! Worth checking out though, would be great if we could accept non students as we do get lots of enquiries about it.
It does depend on the university though, mine won't let anyone join unless they are either a current/alumni student or a member of staff connected to the uni. There rules, not ours! Worth checking out though, would be great if we could accept non students as we do get lots of enquiries about it.
In reply to Bee_1:
Are you sure about that? Because if the club is affiliated with the student's union (not all university clubs are, but most), then there is a third category by which you can join; by being member of the student union.
And any member of the public can become an associate member of the student union. Some University's are more open than others about broadcasting that.
I've been in two university clubs under that category.
> It does depend on the university though, mine won't let anyone join unless they are either a current/alumni student or a member of staff connected to the uni.
Are you sure about that? Because if the club is affiliated with the student's union (not all university clubs are, but most), then there is a third category by which you can join; by being member of the student union.
And any member of the public can become an associate member of the student union. Some University's are more open than others about broadcasting that.
I've been in two university clubs under that category.
In reply to Bee_1:
At UEA by any chance? From UEA's SU handbook:
"Non-UEA students may not become club/society members unless:
They become an Associate Member.
This is an annual membership open to any person with a particular ability or resource that is particularly useful to your club, society or peer support group. Associate Membership must be agreed by the Union’s Executive."
Sounds like UEA are not as open door as some, but its still ajar.
At UEA by any chance? From UEA's SU handbook:
"Non-UEA students may not become club/society members unless:
They become an Associate Member.
This is an annual membership open to any person with a particular ability or resource that is particularly useful to your club, society or peer support group. Associate Membership must be agreed by the Union’s Executive."
Sounds like UEA are not as open door as some, but its still ajar.
In reply to Robnolan:
I think Uni clubs across the country have very different rules. Some enforced by the clubs, and some by parent bodies.
For us (St Andrews), the club generally welcomes non-students, and the club constitution explicitly states non-students can join. The Athletic union, to which we are affiliated wishes to discourage non-students, so charges £50pa and reserves the right to veto new members. In practice non-student members are often recent alumni, or people who are students in all but a technicality, or young-ish uni staff.
From the club's point of view, non-students are often a good reservoir of experience, as very few students have more than a decade of experience simply because of their age. The AU on the other hand see that they help buy kit for students to use, and it is being used by non-students, and they don't like it.
I think Uni clubs across the country have very different rules. Some enforced by the clubs, and some by parent bodies.
For us (St Andrews), the club generally welcomes non-students, and the club constitution explicitly states non-students can join. The Athletic union, to which we are affiliated wishes to discourage non-students, so charges £50pa and reserves the right to veto new members. In practice non-student members are often recent alumni, or people who are students in all but a technicality, or young-ish uni staff.
From the club's point of view, non-students are often a good reservoir of experience, as very few students have more than a decade of experience simply because of their age. The AU on the other hand see that they help buy kit for students to use, and it is being used by non-students, and they don't like it.
In reply to climbwhenready:
From clubs I've been in, a regular wall night (weekly) is good and regular pub socials (somewhere between weekly and monthly) also help.
The difficulty you then get is turning newbies who turn up at the wall and need to be taught how to tie in into confident and competent trad leaders who can look after themselves, without turning every trip into a novice meet. Particularly if you have some rate of people who show up, need people to look after them for a couple of trips, and then get lose interest. But that's still a lot better than having no new blood at all.
> Dahn here in London the clubs all use meetup.com to advertise socials, or more importantly, sessions at a local wall. A lot of people are on the look for more/new climbing partners, and using that as a "way into" joining a club with wider aims seems to be very successful.
From clubs I've been in, a regular wall night (weekly) is good and regular pub socials (somewhere between weekly and monthly) also help.
The difficulty you then get is turning newbies who turn up at the wall and need to be taught how to tie in into confident and competent trad leaders who can look after themselves, without turning every trip into a novice meet. Particularly if you have some rate of people who show up, need people to look after them for a couple of trips, and then get lose interest. But that's still a lot better than having no new blood at all.
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Sadly, my university club organizes meets at pub every week (that's official, by the way) and one climbing at wall session a year (a tasters' session or so). They do some trips, but I do not know anyone from there. On facebook group some people offer to go to local climbing wall, but every time I messaged them, they never replied me.
Sadly, my university club organizes meets at pub every week (that's official, by the way) and one climbing at wall session a year (a tasters' session or so). They do some trips, but I do not know anyone from there. On facebook group some people offer to go to local climbing wall, but every time I messaged them, they never replied me.
In reply to Robnolan:
In the past, I've used clubs a lot, as a way to meet people to climb with and to share lifts, going on meets every month. Now, I have regular climbing partners, but am also a member of a club and do try to go on some meets, but life is busy and it's often easier to just go climbing with a regular partner for the day.
The great thing about clubs is the chance to meet more climbers locally, the chance to share lifts, the opportunities to use huts (both the clubs and also other clubs'huts). You usually get 3rd party insurance and membership of the BMC as well as part of your membership. You can also often get discounts off gear.
The bad things are that some local clubs can end up not being very active climbing wise, and that you sometimes get some people who think that they are like your boss at work and who start trying to tell you what to do! Also, you do sometimes get the odd person who you would rather avoid, and sometimes a club makes it harder to do this!
I also personally am not at all keen on clubs that move too far away from climbing, into social activities or walking/mountain biking etc. I like the focus to be on climbing.
I've met some very good friends, had some magnificent holidays and weekends through clubs and continue to enjoy them as an easy way to have a weekend away as part of a mixed group of people.
Keeping a club going is about incentivising and encouraging experienced members as well as attracting new ones - it's all about balance.
I think it's also important to make it easy for people to pay any subs. I've been a member of clubs and been willing to remain a member, but paying subs meant going to an obscure pub on a week night in another county, no one could tell me how much the subs were, so it just became impossible to remain a member! (they did suggest I send them a blank cheque, but I wasn't too keen on this idea!).
In the past, I've used clubs a lot, as a way to meet people to climb with and to share lifts, going on meets every month. Now, I have regular climbing partners, but am also a member of a club and do try to go on some meets, but life is busy and it's often easier to just go climbing with a regular partner for the day.
The great thing about clubs is the chance to meet more climbers locally, the chance to share lifts, the opportunities to use huts (both the clubs and also other clubs'huts). You usually get 3rd party insurance and membership of the BMC as well as part of your membership. You can also often get discounts off gear.
The bad things are that some local clubs can end up not being very active climbing wise, and that you sometimes get some people who think that they are like your boss at work and who start trying to tell you what to do! Also, you do sometimes get the odd person who you would rather avoid, and sometimes a club makes it harder to do this!
I also personally am not at all keen on clubs that move too far away from climbing, into social activities or walking/mountain biking etc. I like the focus to be on climbing.
I've met some very good friends, had some magnificent holidays and weekends through clubs and continue to enjoy them as an easy way to have a weekend away as part of a mixed group of people.
Keeping a club going is about incentivising and encouraging experienced members as well as attracting new ones - it's all about balance.
I think it's also important to make it easy for people to pay any subs. I've been a member of clubs and been willing to remain a member, but paying subs meant going to an obscure pub on a week night in another county, no one could tell me how much the subs were, so it just became impossible to remain a member! (they did suggest I send them a blank cheque, but I wasn't too keen on this idea!).
In reply to Robnolan:
I think clubs are an invaluable part of society. When I moved to London, I knew nobody and only associated with work colleagues. This inevitably got a little weary. Although I did climb with a few work friends until people moved on in their careers.
I joined the LMC and its great. Regular trips across UK/Europe and to places I have never been. Meeting different people with different stories etc... And I think more than the climbing/walkiong/outdoorsy aspect, its a great way to skill-swap and its a little community. Its a nice little oasis in the hustle and bustle of London life.
The LMC use Facebook, Meetup.com and t'interweb magic to lure in new members. We meet regularly climbing indoors and then go to the pub to discuss how great we were. And monthly social nights which invariably have an interesting talk/slide show of somebody's far-flung adventure. Its great!
I think clubs are an invaluable part of society. When I moved to London, I knew nobody and only associated with work colleagues. This inevitably got a little weary. Although I did climb with a few work friends until people moved on in their careers.
I joined the LMC and its great. Regular trips across UK/Europe and to places I have never been. Meeting different people with different stories etc... And I think more than the climbing/walkiong/outdoorsy aspect, its a great way to skill-swap and its a little community. Its a nice little oasis in the hustle and bustle of London life.
The LMC use Facebook, Meetup.com and t'interweb magic to lure in new members. We meet regularly climbing indoors and then go to the pub to discuss how great we were. And monthly social nights which invariably have an interesting talk/slide show of somebody's far-flung adventure. Its great!
In reply to Robnolan:
cliques are a pain even if you unwillingly become sucked into. Example : Notifying you by email before announcing meets so you get accommodation before any outsiders of the clique.
Rules and those that become "the Law" usually there eventually becomes a backlash and they leave "the club" spitting the dummy out.
Farters and snorers are a ball to share accommodation with.
Social retards : Lets face it generally their there because they cant make mates normally.
Group walks having to go at the pace of a terminally ill hospital patient.
It could go on and on but these are only my experiences.
Joining a club in the future : No thanks as appealing as a colonoscopy and endoscope at the same time.
What would make me join : Like last time someone invited me along one night to an interesting talk. Couple of months later I got a letter through the post that I was banned from the club for not paying my club fees? Eh! It seemed to be because I breathed the same room air as them that I had become a member. I could be caught out like that in the future maybe find a sovereign in the bottom of my pint glass one night!
Nah stick to making mates in the pub, crags, etc. feck the groupies.
cliques are a pain even if you unwillingly become sucked into. Example : Notifying you by email before announcing meets so you get accommodation before any outsiders of the clique.
Rules and those that become "the Law" usually there eventually becomes a backlash and they leave "the club" spitting the dummy out.
Farters and snorers are a ball to share accommodation with.
Social retards : Lets face it generally their there because they cant make mates normally.
Group walks having to go at the pace of a terminally ill hospital patient.
It could go on and on but these are only my experiences.
Joining a club in the future : No thanks as appealing as a colonoscopy and endoscope at the same time.
What would make me join : Like last time someone invited me along one night to an interesting talk. Couple of months later I got a letter through the post that I was banned from the club for not paying my club fees? Eh! It seemed to be because I breathed the same room air as them that I had become a member. I could be caught out like that in the future maybe find a sovereign in the bottom of my pint glass one night!
Nah stick to making mates in the pub, crags, etc. feck the groupies.
In reply to Robnolan:
In terms of increasing appeal, the best thing to do in my experience is to elect a young committee, because they are generally the first point of contact with the club and younger potential members will relate to them better.
Clubs won't be for everyone (there will always be those who think they are too cool for clubs, or who just aren't interested in making the club happen)
In terms of increasing appeal, the best thing to do in my experience is to elect a young committee, because they are generally the first point of contact with the club and younger potential members will relate to them better.
Clubs won't be for everyone (there will always be those who think they are too cool for clubs, or who just aren't interested in making the club happen)
In reply to fmck:
Isn't that what a club is ? a bunch of mates with a common interest ?
> Nah stick to making mates in the pub, crags, etc. feck the groupies.
Isn't that what a club is ? a bunch of mates with a common interest ?
In reply to Robnolan:
In 40 years of climbing I've belonged to at least half a dozen clubs, and I don't recognise any of the things that some people are complaining about (apart from the farting and snoring, but don't people you meet in the pub fart and snore?)
All organisations need a few formalities, but in my experience these are seen by everyone as a necessary evil to be got through as quickly as possible. As for "rules" I really can't think of any. The nearest my current club has to "rules" are a few procedures to do with organising club meets to make sure they don't fill up before the list of formally opened.
You are not obliged to go climbing or walking with everyone in the club. You are not even obliged to like all of them. However within a large group of people the chances are you're going to find sufficient number you can get along with.
For me the advantages of being in a club is that it provides me with a much bigger pool of companions than I'm going to find through chatting to people in a pub. Furthermore, people you get together with at a wall or pub are likely to be similar to you. In a club you get to meet a much broader range of people, of different ages, abilities, experiences and outlook. Not only do you have the chance to pick up different skills from them, you might also be tempted to try activities or destinations which might not otherwise have occurred to you.
Most importantly, clubs are sociable. They're fun. This is why even people with a regular climbing partner still belong to clubs. I can't imagine climbing without being involved in a club.
Not all clubs are the same. If you find a club (or the people in it) doesn't suit you, try another one.
In 40 years of climbing I've belonged to at least half a dozen clubs, and I don't recognise any of the things that some people are complaining about (apart from the farting and snoring, but don't people you meet in the pub fart and snore?)
All organisations need a few formalities, but in my experience these are seen by everyone as a necessary evil to be got through as quickly as possible. As for "rules" I really can't think of any. The nearest my current club has to "rules" are a few procedures to do with organising club meets to make sure they don't fill up before the list of formally opened.
You are not obliged to go climbing or walking with everyone in the club. You are not even obliged to like all of them. However within a large group of people the chances are you're going to find sufficient number you can get along with.
For me the advantages of being in a club is that it provides me with a much bigger pool of companions than I'm going to find through chatting to people in a pub. Furthermore, people you get together with at a wall or pub are likely to be similar to you. In a club you get to meet a much broader range of people, of different ages, abilities, experiences and outlook. Not only do you have the chance to pick up different skills from them, you might also be tempted to try activities or destinations which might not otherwise have occurred to you.
Most importantly, clubs are sociable. They're fun. This is why even people with a regular climbing partner still belong to clubs. I can't imagine climbing without being involved in a club.
Not all clubs are the same. If you find a club (or the people in it) doesn't suit you, try another one.
In reply to Howard J:
Yeah, that matches with my experience as well. I think that for both of the non-uni clubs I've been in, there's been a sort of assumption that the rules are "don't be a dick" and "don't be a total liability", but I don't think I've ever seen or heard an official "club rule", still less a whole list of them. I suppose neither of them have their own huts, which makes life easier, though. And I sometimes wonder whether "buy your driver a few drinks on saturday night" would be worth making official...
> All organisations need a few formalities, but in my experience these are seen by everyone as a necessary evil to be got through as quickly as possible. As for "rules" I really can't think of any. The nearest my current club has to "rules" are a few procedures to do with organising club meets to make sure they don't fill up before the list of formally opened.
Yeah, that matches with my experience as well. I think that for both of the non-uni clubs I've been in, there's been a sort of assumption that the rules are "don't be a dick" and "don't be a total liability", but I don't think I've ever seen or heard an official "club rule", still less a whole list of them. I suppose neither of them have their own huts, which makes life easier, though. And I sometimes wonder whether "buy your driver a few drinks on saturday night" would be worth making official...
Post edited at 10:18
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Same in our club and we do have a hut, 'dont be a dick or a liability' sums us up and I feel gets a better response from folk.
That said I have heard of folk join us because they have tried others who tried to ramp a load rules on them on the first meet.
Same in our club and we do have a hut, 'dont be a dick or a liability' sums us up and I feel gets a better response from folk.
That said I have heard of folk join us because they have tried others who tried to ramp a load rules on them on the first meet.
In reply to Howard J:
Spot on - and also clubs are all about what members are prepared to put into them.
Spot on - and also clubs are all about what members are prepared to put into them.
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