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Given the outrageous amount of snow this winter, and that walking or climbing in it has been shite most of the time, I've accepted that skiing could well be something that's worthwhile learning more about....
Previous experience of skiing is solely downhill based with massive plastic leg breaking boots and big skis and blocked roads and wind closed lifts and hundreds of other people who are generally all better than me (and not just in a socio economic way either).
So how do I get into "the other type" of skiing? The one where people take skis up mountains with them and ski over the tops and down the coires? And sometimes even ski UP the hill? The one where it looks more fun and exploratory? The one where it looks less cumbersome with normal boots that look suspiciously like winter climbing boots? The one where you choose where to go, and don't generally get in the way of a lime green suited Richy Rich and his gorgeous white fur lined all in one besuited Playboy bunny girlfriend?
Am I talking about cross country? Or Nordic? Or ski mountaineering? Or touring? Or telemark? Or are they all something the same ....????
Please help me understand what it is I want to do!!! (And the easiest, cheapest, most effective way of doing it would be good too!!!)
Pro's, con's, good gear/bad gear, things to spend more money on, things I can scrimp on, books to read, films to watch, sites to visit, all info welcome!!
Cheers,
Gordon
In reply to peebles boy:
The chief scrimp is simply this: buy downhill boots + skis, and walk them up the mountain, on your back. Then put them on and ski down. (Carefully, so you don't go over a cliff in a whiteout.)
If you're me you'll want to spend on the boots to make sure they're not miserably uncomfortable. Skis are relatively easy to pick up cheap, but don't get cheap boots unless you have never had trouble with uncomfortable boots in the whole of your life.
If you want good touring skis (they're the ones you can go uphill on; to do this you need heels that raise on the bindings and skins on the skis) they will cost you. I've just paid £840 to get the full kit new. But I think it was worth it--they're really nice skis for downhilling too.
Nordic is different again--that's about flattish trails through Scandinavian pine-forests on tiny skinny little skis.
...Oh blow it, this is all too hard to explain, and very simple in reality. If you want some lessons, one on one, give me a buzz. I'd be happy to take you out and show you some basics!
The chief scrimp is simply this: buy downhill boots + skis, and walk them up the mountain, on your back. Then put them on and ski down. (Carefully, so you don't go over a cliff in a whiteout.)
If you're me you'll want to spend on the boots to make sure they're not miserably uncomfortable. Skis are relatively easy to pick up cheap, but don't get cheap boots unless you have never had trouble with uncomfortable boots in the whole of your life.
If you want good touring skis (they're the ones you can go uphill on; to do this you need heels that raise on the bindings and skins on the skis) they will cost you. I've just paid £840 to get the full kit new. But I think it was worth it--they're really nice skis for downhilling too.
Nordic is different again--that's about flattish trails through Scandinavian pine-forests on tiny skinny little skis.
...Oh blow it, this is all too hard to explain, and very simple in reality. If you want some lessons, one on one, give me a buzz. I'd be happy to take you out and show you some basics!
In reply to peebles boy:
Have a read of these for a start:
http://www.mcofs.org.uk/ski-touring-intro.asp
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6092
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5399
Have a read of these for a start:
http://www.mcofs.org.uk/ski-touring-intro.asp
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6092
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5399
In reply to Tim Chappell:
You don't have to pile in with the heavy cash straight away. After a day's instruction on set of rented touring skis had convinced me that I wanted to do more, I paid £250 for a second-hand pair of Volkl skis with Fritschi Freeride+ bindings and skins on ebay.de. That included a set of skins, and carriage to the UK (and, being German, the seller sent them in a purpose-designed ski packaging!)
I agree with you that the equipment it's important to spend money on from the outset is a well-fitted pair of boots.
> If you want good touring skis (they're the ones you can go uphill on; to do this you need heels that raise on the bindings and skins on the skis) they will cost you. I've just paid £840 to get the full kit new.
You don't have to pile in with the heavy cash straight away. After a day's instruction on set of rented touring skis had convinced me that I wanted to do more, I paid £250 for a second-hand pair of Volkl skis with Fritschi Freeride+ bindings and skins on ebay.de. That included a set of skins, and carriage to the UK (and, being German, the seller sent them in a purpose-designed ski packaging!)
I agree with you that the equipment it's important to spend money on from the outset is a well-fitted pair of boots.
In reply to peebles boy:
I suspect the thing you're after if the ski touring / ski mountaineering part of that list. Cross country and nordic are done on lighter gear - if you watch the x-C races & biathlon in the winter olympics you'll get the idea. Some people draw a distinction between ski touring & ski mountaineering in that the former is about travelling in the snow, finding good skiing etc whereas ski-mountaineering is more about getting to the top of stuff & skiing off it. The two of them use more or less the same gear although you're less likely to take an ice axe / rope etc for ski touring.
Telemarking is also an option but (others may disagree here) the flexibility of the boots make them harder to use with crampons and telemarking is possibly harder to learn. A nice thing with regular touring (Alpine Touring or AT) boots is that you can ski in to a route, put crampons on, climb, ab off & ski home without changing your boots.
The part you'll have to put the most time into is the downhill skiing and you can't beat lift accessed skiing to get the mileage. Personally I think it's well worth the effort to learn about. There is a view that says you're not a complete mountaineer unless you can get around on skis in the mountains...
I suspect the thing you're after if the ski touring / ski mountaineering part of that list. Cross country and nordic are done on lighter gear - if you watch the x-C races & biathlon in the winter olympics you'll get the idea. Some people draw a distinction between ski touring & ski mountaineering in that the former is about travelling in the snow, finding good skiing etc whereas ski-mountaineering is more about getting to the top of stuff & skiing off it. The two of them use more or less the same gear although you're less likely to take an ice axe / rope etc for ski touring.
Telemarking is also an option but (others may disagree here) the flexibility of the boots make them harder to use with crampons and telemarking is possibly harder to learn. A nice thing with regular touring (Alpine Touring or AT) boots is that you can ski in to a route, put crampons on, climb, ab off & ski home without changing your boots.
The part you'll have to put the most time into is the downhill skiing and you can't beat lift accessed skiing to get the mileage. Personally I think it's well worth the effort to learn about. There is a view that says you're not a complete mountaineer unless you can get around on skis in the mountains...
In reply to peebles boy:
Lots of good advice above.
I think it is reasonable to divide skiing into 5 categories and work out which you want to get best at:
1) XC. Thin, narrow waxable skis, light boots, toe bindings. Great for charging around forests close to the arctic circle, North America etc. Nightmare downhill, even the slightest slope leading to inevitable crashes. Generally done on prepared trails. Like orienteering but colder.
2) Nordic. Heavier leather or light plastic tele boots, stronger toe binding than XC to drive somewhat larger metal edged skis (wax or waxless). I think this is the optimum for travelling in rolling arctic terrain eg Norway, where the hut to hut touring is superb. Copes well with uphill and downhill if not too steep. Like winter hillwalking on skis.
3) Alpine downhill. What everyone does
4) Telemark. Boots and skis asymptotically close to downhill in weight these days but bloody good fun. Free heel bindings and plastic boots mean pretty much anything that can be 'downhill skied' can be telemarked these days, and parallel turns can still be done on tele gear. Skins allow uphill travel outside of the pistes. From a totally biased viewpoint I think the effort is rewarded by the joy most of the time but quite a learning curve to negotiate. New 'NTN' boots can fit in the bindings for the next category as well:
5) Alpine Touring. Like telemark but easier. Lock heels down for downhill bits. Works fine on piste unless you are a nutjob. Best/easiest option for off piste if you want to go in that direction.
Bear in mind XC options at many alpine resorts have about the same allure as walking round and round a field. Nice enough to begin with but after a day or two the novelty has long gone.
Instruction will always help. Look at the telamarkskicompany trips to Geilo and Finse for instance - a mix of piste on downhill, AT or tele gear depending on desire, and hut-to-hut nordic. We did this a few years back and it was a fantastic trip (I hadn't skied before other than a two days in the rain in Scotland but ended up crossing the Hardangervidden ice cap at the end of the week). If you do go with the telemarkskico tell John & Bonny I sent you, they are good friends now! Although ostensibly a telemark outfit they have trips for 1,2,4, and 5 above and you can always just go down the pistes on 3 all day if you want...
have fun
b
Lots of good advice above.
I think it is reasonable to divide skiing into 5 categories and work out which you want to get best at:
1) XC. Thin, narrow waxable skis, light boots, toe bindings. Great for charging around forests close to the arctic circle, North America etc. Nightmare downhill, even the slightest slope leading to inevitable crashes. Generally done on prepared trails. Like orienteering but colder.
2) Nordic. Heavier leather or light plastic tele boots, stronger toe binding than XC to drive somewhat larger metal edged skis (wax or waxless). I think this is the optimum for travelling in rolling arctic terrain eg Norway, where the hut to hut touring is superb. Copes well with uphill and downhill if not too steep. Like winter hillwalking on skis.
3) Alpine downhill. What everyone does
4) Telemark. Boots and skis asymptotically close to downhill in weight these days but bloody good fun. Free heel bindings and plastic boots mean pretty much anything that can be 'downhill skied' can be telemarked these days, and parallel turns can still be done on tele gear. Skins allow uphill travel outside of the pistes. From a totally biased viewpoint I think the effort is rewarded by the joy most of the time but quite a learning curve to negotiate. New 'NTN' boots can fit in the bindings for the next category as well:
5) Alpine Touring. Like telemark but easier. Lock heels down for downhill bits. Works fine on piste unless you are a nutjob. Best/easiest option for off piste if you want to go in that direction.
Bear in mind XC options at many alpine resorts have about the same allure as walking round and round a field. Nice enough to begin with but after a day or two the novelty has long gone.
Instruction will always help. Look at the telamarkskicompany trips to Geilo and Finse for instance - a mix of piste on downhill, AT or tele gear depending on desire, and hut-to-hut nordic. We did this a few years back and it was a fantastic trip (I hadn't skied before other than a two days in the rain in Scotland but ended up crossing the Hardangervidden ice cap at the end of the week). If you do go with the telemarkskico tell John & Bonny I sent you, they are good friends now! Although ostensibly a telemark outfit they have trips for 1,2,4, and 5 above and you can always just go down the pistes on 3 all day if you want...
have fun
b
Post edited at 07:39
In reply to peebles boy:
Hi Gordon.
Here's it is.
You don't worry about cross country skiing. Its only really for groomed tracks in the forest. Like you see in the winter Olympics with the guys with guns on there backs. Not practical in the mountains.
Telemark is very specialist and the big bendy toes of the boots are impractical for climbing.
What you need is a a ski touring/ski mountaineering setup.
Boots. AT or touring boot. Something with a rubber sole and walk/ski mode. Lighter is better for climbing and heavier is better for skiing. Strike a good balance for what you intend to do more. Don't scrimp here!
Ski's. Anything in the all mountain category, typically 80-100mm underfoot is a good width. same rules apply for lightness. Check out German Ebay for 2nd hand ski's or the german sports websites for some very good deals. Or sport-pursuit.com.
Bindings. Something like the Fritchi freeride would be good to start with but its not as good as a Lowtech binding (see dynafit or Plum Guide) which are much lighter and more solid.
You can often pick up second hand ski touring setups cheep.
Other things you'll need.
Skins. for climbing up hill. Essentially sticky fur which you can use again and again. Have to be cut for your skis shape.
Poles. anything will do but I personally always use a fixed length pole as they are less prone to breaking. My first pair of poles i found in a bin in cham and the pair I use now I spent 30euros on.
Rucksack. Make sure you have one with a good ski carrying system.
Avalanche kit. I suggest a course to learn how to use it and advice on what you'll need but essentially. Probe,shovel and Transceiver
Hope that helps. Anyone can pm me if you want any more advice.
Cheers Dave
Hi Gordon.
Here's it is.
You don't worry about cross country skiing. Its only really for groomed tracks in the forest. Like you see in the winter Olympics with the guys with guns on there backs. Not practical in the mountains.
Telemark is very specialist and the big bendy toes of the boots are impractical for climbing.
What you need is a a ski touring/ski mountaineering setup.
Boots. AT or touring boot. Something with a rubber sole and walk/ski mode. Lighter is better for climbing and heavier is better for skiing. Strike a good balance for what you intend to do more. Don't scrimp here!
Ski's. Anything in the all mountain category, typically 80-100mm underfoot is a good width. same rules apply for lightness. Check out German Ebay for 2nd hand ski's or the german sports websites for some very good deals. Or sport-pursuit.com.
Bindings. Something like the Fritchi freeride would be good to start with but its not as good as a Lowtech binding (see dynafit or Plum Guide) which are much lighter and more solid.
You can often pick up second hand ski touring setups cheep.
Other things you'll need.
Skins. for climbing up hill. Essentially sticky fur which you can use again and again. Have to be cut for your skis shape.
Poles. anything will do but I personally always use a fixed length pole as they are less prone to breaking. My first pair of poles i found in a bin in cham and the pair I use now I spent 30euros on.
Rucksack. Make sure you have one with a good ski carrying system.
Avalanche kit. I suggest a course to learn how to use it and advice on what you'll need but essentially. Probe,shovel and Transceiver
Hope that helps. Anyone can pm me if you want any more advice.
Cheers Dave
In reply to peebles boy:
Just a little bit further down this same road as you so its interesting to read replies. For years I've been bleating... "must learn to ski... must learn to ski..." Unbeknownst to me my husband was putting together an Alpine Touring set up with second hand gear that he ambushed me with this christmas! So, I've finally bitten the bullet this season and had a few downhill lessons on hire gear to start with, and now planning on getting out on my own gear this week. I've put off using the gear that I've got here initially as my skis are a bit longer than the hire skis, and although they are carving skis, they are a bit old fashioned so not as easy to turn. I suspect in the long run they are a tad heavy, and I'll replace them, but I've got a set of fritschi bindings, and he managed to get some very cheap Scarpa AT boots second hand on ebay. I reckon he must have spend around £300. On advice I bought some brand new Sidas conformable liners to go in these, making them super comfy, and I've found that even when hiring stuff for lessons its good to put these liners in the hire boots too. These cost me £130. Its a bit of an investment, esp with the lessons but reckon it will be worth it.
So there we are, I've had 5 lessons, and it was around lesson 3 that it stopped being scary and started to be fun. Might have some more lessons once I've mastered the basics but next stage is consolidation on my own gear. Target is to be touring on spring snow this year!
Just a little bit further down this same road as you so its interesting to read replies. For years I've been bleating... "must learn to ski... must learn to ski..." Unbeknownst to me my husband was putting together an Alpine Touring set up with second hand gear that he ambushed me with this christmas! So, I've finally bitten the bullet this season and had a few downhill lessons on hire gear to start with, and now planning on getting out on my own gear this week. I've put off using the gear that I've got here initially as my skis are a bit longer than the hire skis, and although they are carving skis, they are a bit old fashioned so not as easy to turn. I suspect in the long run they are a tad heavy, and I'll replace them, but I've got a set of fritschi bindings, and he managed to get some very cheap Scarpa AT boots second hand on ebay. I reckon he must have spend around £300. On advice I bought some brand new Sidas conformable liners to go in these, making them super comfy, and I've found that even when hiring stuff for lessons its good to put these liners in the hire boots too. These cost me £130. Its a bit of an investment, esp with the lessons but reckon it will be worth it.
So there we are, I've had 5 lessons, and it was around lesson 3 that it stopped being scary and started to be fun. Might have some more lessons once I've mastered the basics but next stage is consolidation on my own gear. Target is to be touring on spring snow this year!
In reply to peebles boy:
Hi Gordon,
I have done my best:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6078
Cheers!
Jack
Hi Gordon,
I have done my best:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6078
Cheers!
Jack
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Great article, ta! Can you explain a bit about telemark skiing too?
Great article, ta! Can you explain a bit about telemark skiing too?
In reply to Snoweider:
Hi there is a brief paragraph in the article on telemark skiing. It says:
Extra note: There is another form of skiing called Telemark Skiing. This is done on normal skis, but with special boots and bindings. You ski with your heels not clipped in to the skis at any point. It is more difficult than normal alpine skiing. You can use telemark boots with crampons, and you can ski tour on telemark gear. As it is more difficult, I am not covering it in detail in this article. There is more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemark_skiing
If you are new to skiing, it is much harder, although I am no telemark expert.
Thanks.
Hi there is a brief paragraph in the article on telemark skiing. It says:
Extra note: There is another form of skiing called Telemark Skiing. This is done on normal skis, but with special boots and bindings. You ski with your heels not clipped in to the skis at any point. It is more difficult than normal alpine skiing. You can use telemark boots with crampons, and you can ski tour on telemark gear. As it is more difficult, I am not covering it in detail in this article. There is more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemark_skiing
If you are new to skiing, it is much harder, although I am no telemark expert.
Thanks.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Sorry, I didn't spot that.....It looks very cool.....! Swisssh swissssh... Something to aspire to....
Sorry, I didn't spot that.....It looks very cool.....! Swisssh swissssh... Something to aspire to....
In reply to peebles boy:
Some good and interesting posts here.
I know this isn't of much help to the OP but it's interesting how the development of skis etc has evolved. When I learned during the 1950s there were just skis - 2 plus meter planks with a grouve down the sole and a raised pointy end.
The boots were leather with re-inforced metal side plates at the front and a grouve round the heel for the cable binding. They had metal studs on the soles. They were bloody cold to wear.
The ski bindings consisted of two front metal plates with a leather strap over into which the toe of your boot slid and was held rigid. Just in front of the toe binding there was a lever through which ran a cable. The cable ran back along the sides of the skis through metal clips which held it in place and the boots down onto the ski where there was a metal plate. For down hill sking you ran the cable through the metal clips each side of the heal holding the heel firmly down. For ski touring when climbing you released the rear clips allowing the heal to rise, but still holding the toe firmly into the front bindings. To tighten the bindings and boot firmly down you pushed the front lever forward and down flat.
Falling over wasn't a good idea because a lot of people used to break their legs as the rigid system had no release facilities so that your feet were firmly fixed to the skis.
When I skied the Haute route in the 1960s forward release bindings had been introduced so that if you fell forward heavily in downhill mode the front lever sprang open releasing the rigidity of the boot to the ski, but people were still breaking their legs from the twisting moment on the rigid front bindings. Experimental front release bindings were being introduced whereby there was a twisting free plate under the front bindings, which could be locked to avert accidental release, but they were not very effective and broken legs were still quite common.
Skins were just that - seal skins cut to fit your skis and held in place by straps. The hairs on a seal skin all run backwards allowing you to slide the ski forwards but they sprang open and stoped you if you started to slide back. You could walk straight up quite steep slopes. When it got very steep we changed to crampons and strapped our skis to the pack, as skis were so much longer on those days this could become cumbersome, as were the rucksacks which had rigid metal frames. Modern skins are synthetic.
We also carried an ice axe each which had really long wooden shafts, again cumbersome when it got steep, and when strapped to your pack had a tendency to catch on branches when skiing down through forest.
Some good and interesting posts here.
I know this isn't of much help to the OP but it's interesting how the development of skis etc has evolved. When I learned during the 1950s there were just skis - 2 plus meter planks with a grouve down the sole and a raised pointy end.
The boots were leather with re-inforced metal side plates at the front and a grouve round the heel for the cable binding. They had metal studs on the soles. They were bloody cold to wear.
The ski bindings consisted of two front metal plates with a leather strap over into which the toe of your boot slid and was held rigid. Just in front of the toe binding there was a lever through which ran a cable. The cable ran back along the sides of the skis through metal clips which held it in place and the boots down onto the ski where there was a metal plate. For down hill sking you ran the cable through the metal clips each side of the heal holding the heel firmly down. For ski touring when climbing you released the rear clips allowing the heal to rise, but still holding the toe firmly into the front bindings. To tighten the bindings and boot firmly down you pushed the front lever forward and down flat.
Falling over wasn't a good idea because a lot of people used to break their legs as the rigid system had no release facilities so that your feet were firmly fixed to the skis.
When I skied the Haute route in the 1960s forward release bindings had been introduced so that if you fell forward heavily in downhill mode the front lever sprang open releasing the rigidity of the boot to the ski, but people were still breaking their legs from the twisting moment on the rigid front bindings. Experimental front release bindings were being introduced whereby there was a twisting free plate under the front bindings, which could be locked to avert accidental release, but they were not very effective and broken legs were still quite common.
Skins were just that - seal skins cut to fit your skis and held in place by straps. The hairs on a seal skin all run backwards allowing you to slide the ski forwards but they sprang open and stoped you if you started to slide back. You could walk straight up quite steep slopes. When it got very steep we changed to crampons and strapped our skis to the pack, as skis were so much longer on those days this could become cumbersome, as were the rucksacks which had rigid metal frames. Modern skins are synthetic.
We also carried an ice axe each which had really long wooden shafts, again cumbersome when it got steep, and when strapped to your pack had a tendency to catch on branches when skiing down through forest.
In reply to Snoweider:
It probably is worth getting some shorter (?lighter) skis at some point - I persevered for over 10 years with a cheap second hand set that I knew were too long. And finally bit the bullet and bought a shorter pairs (women's ones - also much lighter and more flex than the men's version, which suits me well as I don't tend to ski fast) - off piste turns suddenly went from being a battle in anything but perfect conditions to being fairly straightforward most of the time. Then again, there's a lot to be said for old skis in Scotland, as there's often not a whole lot of base to the snow! Although usually more than there is in the Lakes.....
It probably is worth getting some shorter (?lighter) skis at some point - I persevered for over 10 years with a cheap second hand set that I knew were too long. And finally bit the bullet and bought a shorter pairs (women's ones - also much lighter and more flex than the men's version, which suits me well as I don't tend to ski fast) - off piste turns suddenly went from being a battle in anything but perfect conditions to being fairly straightforward most of the time. Then again, there's a lot to be said for old skis in Scotland, as there's often not a whole lot of base to the snow! Although usually more than there is in the Lakes.....
In reply to Snoweider:
Telemarkers say "Free the heel, free the mind."
AT skiers say "Fix the heel, fix the problem."
Telemarkers say "Free the heel, free the mind."
AT skiers say "Fix the heel, fix the problem."
In reply to AdrianC:
Looks like the most brilliant fun- until the avalanche at the end! youtube.com/watch?v=_RQdbpZ-Nz4&
Looks like the most brilliant fun- until the avalanche at the end! youtube.com/watch?v=_RQdbpZ-Nz4&
In reply to Carolyn:
I've already made a note.... A gear freak like me will not need much excuse to save up for something a bit lighter and more groovy looking!
I've already made a note.... A gear freak like me will not need much excuse to save up for something a bit lighter and more groovy looking!
In reply to Snoweider:
I got a nice girly pair covered in flowers in the hope S wouldn't borrow them all the time. But he has no shame.....
I got a nice girly pair covered in flowers in the hope S wouldn't borrow them all the time. But he has no shame.....
In reply to AdrianC:
Second that! I'm wanting to run before I can walk. Or telemark ski off piste like a hooligan while I'm still struggling to avoid toddlers on green runs.
Second that! I'm wanting to run before I can walk. Or telemark ski off piste like a hooligan while I'm still struggling to avoid toddlers on green runs.
In reply to Carolyn:
There are some great designs out there... not sure about flowers, but I fancy tiger stripes....
There are some great designs out there... not sure about flowers, but I fancy tiger stripes....
In reply to peebles boy:
Some very wrong advice there..............
Having skied almost all forms of ski-ing......
X-country ski are all cambered (which is NOT ideal for steep downhill) and has three main "areas"
1. narrow long trad skis for track "tramline" sking.
2. shorter narrow skis for track "skate" sking.
3. backcountry skis which are wider & have beefier bindings & boots and the skis can have metal edges. Skis are still under 65mm wide!
Telemark;- this is a "style" of turn, very elegant can be done on the above x-country gear or,
1. basic backcountry telemark gear is usually beefier than no3 above and wider skis with metal edges. Bindings are usually 3 pin or cable, boots are fabric/leather, or basic plastic.
2. Mtn tele gear is even beefier that above, wider skis, cable bindings or NTN stuff, plastic boots, heel risers & tour modes for bindings.
Ski MTN gear has plastic boots, wide skis & a lock down heel for downhill, & is usually in 2 groups;-
1. TLT which is the lightest gear and had the "pincer" pin front binding.
2. general gear has "frame" type bindings which have a plate/frame which moves with the boot when you "tour".
What I gear have I tried/got?
1. skied in Italy on old Silvretta 404 bindings with plastic boots.
2. set of trad "long" x-country skis
3. set of short skate skis
4. set of backcountry x-country ski with metal edges (done hop telemarks down the gunbarrel on C.G.
5. set of Trab freeride skis, 7TM STI power tour bindings(duckbill), Scarpa T2 boots, blackdiamond skins.
6. forgot to add, various tele gear as hired a lot from MTN spirit in Aviemore.
7. also skied in USA, Yugoslavia, France, Scotland
If you really want to get down the equivalent of a red run off piste then defo big tele or ski MTN gear. As for is the old duckbill a pain?....NOPE! I have Petzl wide bail wire for tele boots, my Petzl crampons fit perfect, done grade I gully in them, and can parallel down the White lady (red run) no probs on my bindings!
All down to skill!
Some very wrong advice there..............
Having skied almost all forms of ski-ing......
X-country ski are all cambered (which is NOT ideal for steep downhill) and has three main "areas"
1. narrow long trad skis for track "tramline" sking.
2. shorter narrow skis for track "skate" sking.
3. backcountry skis which are wider & have beefier bindings & boots and the skis can have metal edges. Skis are still under 65mm wide!
Telemark;- this is a "style" of turn, very elegant can be done on the above x-country gear or,
1. basic backcountry telemark gear is usually beefier than no3 above and wider skis with metal edges. Bindings are usually 3 pin or cable, boots are fabric/leather, or basic plastic.
2. Mtn tele gear is even beefier that above, wider skis, cable bindings or NTN stuff, plastic boots, heel risers & tour modes for bindings.
Ski MTN gear has plastic boots, wide skis & a lock down heel for downhill, & is usually in 2 groups;-
1. TLT which is the lightest gear and had the "pincer" pin front binding.
2. general gear has "frame" type bindings which have a plate/frame which moves with the boot when you "tour".
What I gear have I tried/got?
1. skied in Italy on old Silvretta 404 bindings with plastic boots.
2. set of trad "long" x-country skis
3. set of short skate skis
4. set of backcountry x-country ski with metal edges (done hop telemarks down the gunbarrel on C.G.
5. set of Trab freeride skis, 7TM STI power tour bindings(duckbill), Scarpa T2 boots, blackdiamond skins.
6. forgot to add, various tele gear as hired a lot from MTN spirit in Aviemore.
7. also skied in USA, Yugoslavia, France, Scotland
If you really want to get down the equivalent of a red run off piste then defo big tele or ski MTN gear. As for is the old duckbill a pain?....NOPE! I have Petzl wide bail wire for tele boots, my Petzl crampons fit perfect, done grade I gully in them, and can parallel down the White lady (red run) no probs on my bindings!
All down to skill!
Post edited at 17:05
In reply to Snowdave:
You have to be really good or rather lucky to tele properly on XC skis!
I've also found climbing steepish snow in my teles (also got T2s) is generally OK if not ideal, but on ice it doesn't work - they duckbill does stop my crampons going in properly. Want to get some NTN boots to get round that problem and so I can use them with Dynafit bindings!
> Telemark;- this is a "style" of turn, very elegant can be done on the above x-country gear
You have to be really good or rather lucky to tele properly on XC skis!
> As for is the old duckbill a pain?....NOPE! I have Petzl wide bail wire for tele boots, my Petzl crampons fit perfect, done grade I gully in them
I've also found climbing steepish snow in my teles (also got T2s) is generally OK if not ideal, but on ice it doesn't work - they duckbill does stop my crampons going in properly. Want to get some NTN boots to get round that problem and so I can use them with Dynafit bindings!
Post edited at 17:19
In reply to TobyA:
Done hop teles down the Gunbarrel on my E99 MTN Crown 210cm back country ski with NNN (beefier track/skate bindings). Also the guide I had in France could tele on edgeless (no metal) trad (long) x-country skis down black runs....... ;O
Get the Petzl tele boot wide wire bail. As for NTN, forget it I won't get until someone can build a more stronger, reliable version which will only happen when the patent runs out! (look what Fritsch have done with TLT re the Vipec)
> You have to be really good or rather lucky to tele properly on XC skis!
Done hop teles down the Gunbarrel on my E99 MTN Crown 210cm back country ski with NNN (beefier track/skate bindings). Also the guide I had in France could tele on edgeless (no metal) trad (long) x-country skis down black runs....... ;O
> I've also found climbing steepish snow in my teles (also got T2s) is generally OK if not ideal, but on ice it doesn't work - they duckbill does stop my crampons going in properly. Want to get some NTN boots to get round that problem and so I can use them with Dynafit bindings!
Get the Petzl tele boot wide wire bail. As for NTN, forget it I won't get until someone can build a more stronger, reliable version which will only happen when the patent runs out! (look what Fritsch have done with TLT re the Vipec)
In reply to Snowdave:
>Done hop teles down the Gunbarrel on my E99 MTN Crown 210cm back country ski with NNN (beefier track/skate bindings). Also the guide I had in France could tele on edgeless (no metal) trad (long) x-country skis down black runs....... ;O
I used to regularly ski black runs on my old Asnes skis (54mm underfoot) & often tele on my edgeless track skis (greens & blue alpine downhill pistes) but only when the snow is good - if its at all icy the lack of edges is soon obvious and as for breakable crust, lets not go there...
Yesterday I was telemarking the steeper descents on the XC pistes here in the Jura (& long weekend), today, different snow and it was skidded parallels & stem turns.
>Done hop teles down the Gunbarrel on my E99 MTN Crown 210cm back country ski with NNN (beefier track/skate bindings). Also the guide I had in France could tele on edgeless (no metal) trad (long) x-country skis down black runs....... ;O
I used to regularly ski black runs on my old Asnes skis (54mm underfoot) & often tele on my edgeless track skis (greens & blue alpine downhill pistes) but only when the snow is good - if its at all icy the lack of edges is soon obvious and as for breakable crust, lets not go there...
Yesterday I was telemarking the steeper descents on the XC pistes here in the Jura (& long weekend), today, different snow and it was skidded parallels & stem turns.
In reply to Doug:
There is a problem you quickly notice with a free heel when you're ski-mountaineering: lift your foot up and the back of the ski drops away. Of course it does. That's gravity for you.
This can make lots of things harder if, like me, you've basically been brought up on ordinary downhill skis. Standing turns on a steep icy slope, for instance
There is a problem you quickly notice with a free heel when you're ski-mountaineering: lift your foot up and the back of the ski drops away. Of course it does. That's gravity for you.
This can make lots of things harder if, like me, you've basically been brought up on ordinary downhill skis. Standing turns on a steep icy slope, for instance
In reply to AdrianC:
A view held by e.g pretty much every organisation that trains/qualifies mountain guides
> There is a view that says you're not a complete mountaineer unless you can get around on skis in the mountains...
A view held by e.g pretty much every organisation that trains/qualifies mountain guides
In reply to ben b:
I can second the recommendation of the telemark ski co. They arranged some of the best quality instruction I have had for anything.
I can second the recommendation of the telemark ski co. They arranged some of the best quality instruction I have had for anything.
In reply to Snowdave:
I love how you wade in and say that people have given poor advice and then just list a load of useless XC gear (seen as that's not what he's going to need) and an even longer list of useless acronyms:
MTN,
NTN,
TLT,
7TM STI,
Do you really think this is useful advice??
If Peebles Boy goes into a shop and asks for SKI MTN gear with TLT Pincers they will look at him like he has 4 heads!!!
What you are talking about, as others have said, is A.T. (Alpine Touring) gear.
Where is the "wrong advice" you hint at?
I love how you wade in and say that people have given poor advice and then just list a load of useless XC gear (seen as that's not what he's going to need) and an even longer list of useless acronyms:
MTN,
NTN,
TLT,
7TM STI,
Do you really think this is useful advice??
If Peebles Boy goes into a shop and asks for SKI MTN gear with TLT Pincers they will look at him like he has 4 heads!!!
What you are talking about, as others have said, is A.T. (Alpine Touring) gear.
Where is the "wrong advice" you hint at?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Learn better technique...............
Get the following book which is the best book for back country & Mtn skiing and covers technique for different types of tele bindings as well as AT (frame or TLT). Also masses of info for avalanche rescue, recovery, planning, tours, etc., etc.
"Backcountry skiing, skills for ski touring & ski mountaineering" By Martin Volken, Scott Schell & Margaret Wheeler
> There is a problem you quickly notice with a free heel when you're ski-mountaineering: lift your foot up and the back of the ski drops away. Of course it does. That's gravity for you.
> This can make lots of things harder if, like me, you've basically been brought up on ordinary downhill skis. Standing turns on a steep icy slope, for instance
Learn better technique...............
Get the following book which is the best book for back country & Mtn skiing and covers technique for different types of tele bindings as well as AT (frame or TLT). Also masses of info for avalanche rescue, recovery, planning, tours, etc., etc.
"Backcountry skiing, skills for ski touring & ski mountaineering" By Martin Volken, Scott Schell & Margaret Wheeler
Post edited at 21:29
In reply to Snowdave:
I've got that book, I thought it was really crap. I didn't find it explained anything very well and was quite boring,it just didn't enthuse. I not sure which book I'd recommend now, maybe for alpine ski touring "off piste essentials" (DVD).
I've got that book, I thought it was really crap. I didn't find it explained anything very well and was quite boring,it just didn't enthuse. I not sure which book I'd recommend now, maybe for alpine ski touring "off piste essentials" (DVD).
In reply to OwenM:
Paul Parker's "Telemark and Parallel Techniques for all conditions" and "Allen & Mike's Telemark Tips" did for me (in a good way) but then I never learned on trad alpine downhill gear - I started on (duckbill) teles and learned to snowplough on them, then stem turns etc. Somewhere along the way I learnt to parallel. It's made my skiing a bit weird as I only parallel as a turn of last resort these days!
The interesting thing is (when I borrow other people's AT gear for a couple of runs while they play on my teles) it is so, so easy to ski in fixed heel gear. It's basically cheating
b
PS climbing grade 1 gullies in them doesn't define ski/climbing suitability. I have lost count of the number of grade 1 gullies I have done in Walsh Fellrunners but they are rubbish in a telemark binding...
Paul Parker's "Telemark and Parallel Techniques for all conditions" and "Allen & Mike's Telemark Tips" did for me (in a good way) but then I never learned on trad alpine downhill gear - I started on (duckbill) teles and learned to snowplough on them, then stem turns etc. Somewhere along the way I learnt to parallel. It's made my skiing a bit weird as I only parallel as a turn of last resort these days!
The interesting thing is (when I borrow other people's AT gear for a couple of runs while they play on my teles) it is so, so easy to ski in fixed heel gear. It's basically cheating
b
PS climbing grade 1 gullies in them doesn't define ski/climbing suitability. I have lost count of the number of grade 1 gullies I have done in Walsh Fellrunners but they are rubbish in a telemark binding...
In reply to ben b:
This book I also have as the best for "tele" etc, just that I found more specific info on certain techniques in the Volken/Schell & Wheeler book, just get both as "reference" books.
Join the club! This is how I feel as well, even when I do parallel turns on my tele gear! parallel is easy by comparison to tele!
I know but need to push them into grade II or III. I think the most they will cope with is grade III (with my Petzl crampons) but I would chicken out due to having bloody skis on the rucsac getting in the way, so only prefer to take "easy" vertical routes up a face to get around having skis on the rucsac!
> Paul Parker's "Telemark and Parallel Techniques for all conditions"
This book I also have as the best for "tele" etc, just that I found more specific info on certain techniques in the Volken/Schell & Wheeler book, just get both as "reference" books.
> The interesting thing is (when I borrow other people's AT gear for a couple of runs while they play on my teles) it is so, so easy to ski in fixed heel gear. It's basically cheating
Join the club! This is how I feel as well, even when I do parallel turns on my tele gear! parallel is easy by comparison to tele!
> PS climbing grade 1 gullies in them doesn't define ski/climbing suitability.
I know but need to push them into grade II or III. I think the most they will cope with is grade III (with my Petzl crampons) but I would chicken out due to having bloody skis on the rucsac getting in the way, so only prefer to take "easy" vertical routes up a face to get around having skis on the rucsac!
In reply to Fultonius:
To quote the OP;- "Am I talking about cross country? Or Nordic? Or ski mountaineering? Or touring? Or telemark? Or are they all something the same ....????"
I think that validates talking about the differences between the equipment!
As for "useless acronyms";-
MTN;- this is a standard abbreviation of Mountain or Mountaineering
NTN;- this stands for New Telemark Norm, this type of binding is only made by Rottefella so if you ask for an NTN binding or boot the shop will know what you mean! This binding also has boots which fit AT (TLT) bindings!!
TLT;- this stands for Tour Light Tech. This is a well known binding type and again if you ask a shop for a TLT binding or boot they will know what you are on about!! The TLT binding was originally done by Dynafit but since the Patent has expired other manufactures such as Plum, Trab, Fritschi, G3, etc. have made this type of binding.....etc. another acronym!
7TM;- this is the actual brand name of binding, with the binding model name (that I have) being a "Power Tour STI"
How about another "useless acronym"?;- TR2 ;- these are a new set of (AT TLT type) bindings/boots which are not compatible with any other binding/boot! Made by Trab & Scarpa
Do you ask for a Digital Versatile Disc, & Universal Serial Bus?????
Get real & troll elsewhere as you have just proven that you do not know the obvious, i.e. that abbreviations are the norm & other people in a ski shop will know what you mean if you use the abbreviations I stated!
> I love how you wade in and say that people have given poor advice and then just list a load of useless XC gear (seen as that's not what he's going to need) and an even longer list of useless acronyms:
> MTN,
> NTN,
> TLT,
> 7TM STI,
> Do you really think this is useful advice??
To quote the OP;- "Am I talking about cross country? Or Nordic? Or ski mountaineering? Or touring? Or telemark? Or are they all something the same ....????"
I think that validates talking about the differences between the equipment!
As for "useless acronyms";-
MTN;- this is a standard abbreviation of Mountain or Mountaineering
NTN;- this stands for New Telemark Norm, this type of binding is only made by Rottefella so if you ask for an NTN binding or boot the shop will know what you mean! This binding also has boots which fit AT (TLT) bindings!!
TLT;- this stands for Tour Light Tech. This is a well known binding type and again if you ask a shop for a TLT binding or boot they will know what you are on about!! The TLT binding was originally done by Dynafit but since the Patent has expired other manufactures such as Plum, Trab, Fritschi, G3, etc. have made this type of binding.....etc. another acronym!
7TM;- this is the actual brand name of binding, with the binding model name (that I have) being a "Power Tour STI"
How about another "useless acronym"?;- TR2 ;- these are a new set of (AT TLT type) bindings/boots which are not compatible with any other binding/boot! Made by Trab & Scarpa
Do you ask for a Digital Versatile Disc, & Universal Serial Bus?????
Get real & troll elsewhere as you have just proven that you do not know the obvious, i.e. that abbreviations are the norm & other people in a ski shop will know what you mean if you use the abbreviations I stated!
Post edited at 15:18
In reply to Fultonius:
Forgot to add that in my above post I was using another "useless" acronym, SCARPA
Which stands for Società Calzaturiera Asolana Riunita Pedemontana Anonima,
Which roughly translated means "Associated Shoe Manufacturing Company of the Asolo Mountain Area".
Forgot to add that in my above post I was using another "useless" acronym, SCARPA
Which stands for Società Calzaturiera Asolana Riunita Pedemontana Anonima,
Which roughly translated means "Associated Shoe Manufacturing Company of the Asolo Mountain Area".
Post edited at 17:24
In reply to Snowdave:
Ha, I didn't know that one - quite clever since Scarpa also means "shoe" in Italian.
> Forgot to add that in my above post I was using another "useless" acronym, SCARPA
> Which stands for Società Calzaturiera Asolana Riunita Pedemontana Anonima,
> Which roughly translated means "Associated Shoe Manufacturing Company of the Asolo Mountain Area".
Ha, I didn't know that one - quite clever since Scarpa also means "shoe" in Italian.
In reply to peebles boy:
I would say the pistes offer a good place to learn the basics. Probably best to join someone experienced to tell you about wind slab, shovels, avalanche transceiver etc., choosing your itinerary for the day etc.
I would get comfy boots, the rest of the kit I would get basics to start with, it normally gets trashed ski touring.
Anyway...looking forward to more powder...on my snowboard; not the best tool for travelling over mountains unless with a split board, but without a doubt the best tool for descending powder and spring slush, I am not biased in the slightest
I would say the pistes offer a good place to learn the basics. Probably best to join someone experienced to tell you about wind slab, shovels, avalanche transceiver etc., choosing your itinerary for the day etc.
I would get comfy boots, the rest of the kit I would get basics to start with, it normally gets trashed ski touring.
Anyway...looking forward to more powder...on my snowboard; not the best tool for travelling over mountains unless with a split board, but without a doubt the best tool for descending powder and spring slush, I am not biased in the slightest
In reply to Dave Searle:
Dave, you forgot to mention downhill skiing skills... and sadly those are best acquired by visiting the boring ski resorts.
As going up with skins is relatively easy (albeit to do it really well with minimal energy wasted is a different thing all together), coming down is something that perhaps might need some work.
> Lost of good info...
Dave, you forgot to mention downhill skiing skills... and sadly those are best acquired by visiting the boring ski resorts.
As going up with skins is relatively easy (albeit to do it really well with minimal energy wasted is a different thing all together), coming down is something that perhaps might need some work.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Tim - cheers for the info and the discussions sparked here, lots of good knowledge gleaned!! Thanks also for the offer - though any hill exercise may be curtailed for the foreseeable thanks to unexpected cartilage problems (off to see a consultant tomo, having had to extricate myself from near the top of Stob Ban last week when my knee near enough locked up just as the weather decided to get a bit exciting....fingers crossed it's "fixable" and not the end of my winter...). Will definitely be in touch if I sort myself out with ski gear and make a trip over East at some point.
Thanks also to everyone else for input - have a fairly clear idea of "what type" of skiing it is I want to get into, and the kind of gear needed to make it enjoyable!!
Cheers,
Gordon
Tim - cheers for the info and the discussions sparked here, lots of good knowledge gleaned!! Thanks also for the offer - though any hill exercise may be curtailed for the foreseeable thanks to unexpected cartilage problems (off to see a consultant tomo, having had to extricate myself from near the top of Stob Ban last week when my knee near enough locked up just as the weather decided to get a bit exciting....fingers crossed it's "fixable" and not the end of my winter...). Will definitely be in touch if I sort myself out with ski gear and make a trip over East at some point.
Thanks also to everyone else for input - have a fairly clear idea of "what type" of skiing it is I want to get into, and the kind of gear needed to make it enjoyable!!
Cheers,
Gordon
In reply to Dave Searle:
Cheers Dave. Useful and easy to understand info, I like it!
Though you mention skiing with guns as not practical, but you've now put some great images into my head for extra gear to take on winter routes...!!
Ta,
Gordon
Cheers Dave. Useful and easy to understand info, I like it!
Though you mention skiing with guns as not practical, but you've now put some great images into my head for extra gear to take on winter routes...!!
Ta,
Gordon
In reply to peebles boy:
Gordon, does that mean the next time we meet on the Ben at the top of No 4 gully you'll be skiing down it with us.....?
Ps Hope the knee is just a minor strain of a tendon or ligament
Al
Gordon, does that mean the next time we meet on the Ben at the top of No 4 gully you'll be skiing down it with us.....?
Ps Hope the knee is just a minor strain of a tendon or ligament
Al
In reply to peebles boy:
Pretty solid advice above, as this is turning into the general info thread, thought I'd put a note on about cost and how to do this for as little money as possible.
[My background is a downhill skier with ski-touring aspirations]
For a day... ~£40 a day
Hire a touring set up (skis, skins, poles, boots) and venture around somewhere off piste. If you were learning it'd be good to stick near the piste, but it might be sole destroying to watch the 'all in one besuited Playboy bunny' glide up the lift as you're sweating out your head. No one can stop you skiing down the piste, you just pay for the lift tickets.
For a day's downhill... ~£30 rental + ~£30 ticket = ~£60 a day
Getting a lot of downhill in is in my opinion the best way to learn and get your basic going downhill technique sorted. The lift tickets are pricey so get up early and make the most of it. It's also great fun, which is why everyone does it.
If you're going to do this regularly there are two ways to cut the costs:
1. use your legs not the lifts and ski tour.
2. buy your own gear.
Second hand downhill skis are pretty plentiful, as there are a lot of people who buy them and then get rid of them. If you're looking for really cheap skis then I'd recommend charity shops. In the UK they're pretty scarce to be honest, but in Europe you stand a better chance. With luck on your side, you can get a full set up for about £30 (same as a day's hire!) obviously it can be a bit of a waiting game to find them though...
Second hand touring skis are going to start to cost proper money (>£100). At the right time of year there seems to be a glut of them on here, or a 'wanted' ad might prompt someone to dig an old pair out of their cupboard.
If you are buying boots new, buy touring boots (they're lighter and with a walk mode) to give yourself the option.
Hopefully this compliments some of the advice above, I'm sure someone will pick it apart
Pretty solid advice above, as this is turning into the general info thread, thought I'd put a note on about cost and how to do this for as little money as possible.
[My background is a downhill skier with ski-touring aspirations]
For a day... ~£40 a day
Hire a touring set up (skis, skins, poles, boots) and venture around somewhere off piste. If you were learning it'd be good to stick near the piste, but it might be sole destroying to watch the 'all in one besuited Playboy bunny' glide up the lift as you're sweating out your head. No one can stop you skiing down the piste, you just pay for the lift tickets.
For a day's downhill... ~£30 rental + ~£30 ticket = ~£60 a day
Getting a lot of downhill in is in my opinion the best way to learn and get your basic going downhill technique sorted. The lift tickets are pricey so get up early and make the most of it. It's also great fun, which is why everyone does it.
If you're going to do this regularly there are two ways to cut the costs:
1. use your legs not the lifts and ski tour.
2. buy your own gear.
Second hand downhill skis are pretty plentiful, as there are a lot of people who buy them and then get rid of them. If you're looking for really cheap skis then I'd recommend charity shops. In the UK they're pretty scarce to be honest, but in Europe you stand a better chance. With luck on your side, you can get a full set up for about £30 (same as a day's hire!) obviously it can be a bit of a waiting game to find them though...
Second hand touring skis are going to start to cost proper money (>£100). At the right time of year there seems to be a glut of them on here, or a 'wanted' ad might prompt someone to dig an old pair out of their cupboard.
If you are buying boots new, buy touring boots (they're lighter and with a walk mode) to give yourself the option.
Hopefully this compliments some of the advice above, I'm sure someone will pick it apart
In reply to Oo:
Worth pointing out that if you buy touring boots, you'll need to have compatible bindings for the skis you get- they won't work with standard downhill bindings.
I've been hiring mostly to learn on, but I took my second hand set up (downhill skis, frtitschi bindings and touring boots) to Nevis range last week and discovered that the skis are waaaay to long for me, also stupidly heavy. Plus I got really hacked off with the Qs (this goes against every reason why I enjoy the mountains). Came straight home and bought myself some lightweight touring skis. They've not arrived yet but the anticipation is killing me. I realise I'm going to have to put up with the Qs to learn, but hopefully the new skis will be more fun on the slopes, and more realistic weight for enjoyable touring.
Worth pointing out that if you buy touring boots, you'll need to have compatible bindings for the skis you get- they won't work with standard downhill bindings.
I've been hiring mostly to learn on, but I took my second hand set up (downhill skis, frtitschi bindings and touring boots) to Nevis range last week and discovered that the skis are waaaay to long for me, also stupidly heavy. Plus I got really hacked off with the Qs (this goes against every reason why I enjoy the mountains). Came straight home and bought myself some lightweight touring skis. They've not arrived yet but the anticipation is killing me. I realise I'm going to have to put up with the Qs to learn, but hopefully the new skis will be more fun on the slopes, and more realistic weight for enjoyable touring.
In reply to peebles boy:
In case you've not searched, the following short videos might be helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ski%20touring%20glenmore%20lodg...
Like you I'm trying to get into ski-touring: going uphill is nae bother, but my shoogly downhill technique on thin skis in touring boots "leaves a lot to be desired".
In case you've not searched, the following short videos might be helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ski%20touring%20glenmore%20lodg...
Like you I'm trying to get into ski-touring: going uphill is nae bother, but my shoogly downhill technique on thin skis in touring boots "leaves a lot to be desired".
In reply to peebles boy:
I did it- I toured! http://wildonarran.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/a-novice-skiers-first-tour.html
I did it- I toured! http://wildonarran.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/a-novice-skiers-first-tour.html
In reply to Snoweider:
I'm hoping to start ski touring with a similar lack of experience - good to hear it's possible!
I'm hoping to start ski touring with a similar lack of experience - good to hear it's possible!
In reply to DalesClimber:
Definitely possible, can't wait to go out again. I would recommend picking good companions who absolutely know what they are doing and who have lots of patience, and being prepared to walk if you have to (pack crampons). The route my pals chose was perfect, really very easy angled, and I'd definitely go back to the Drumochter hills and do more in that area. Lots to go at. Funny, I've always ignored them before as they look a bit boring but they are not boring on skis!
Definitely possible, can't wait to go out again. I would recommend picking good companions who absolutely know what they are doing and who have lots of patience, and being prepared to walk if you have to (pack crampons). The route my pals chose was perfect, really very easy angled, and I'd definitely go back to the Drumochter hills and do more in that area. Lots to go at. Funny, I've always ignored them before as they look a bit boring but they are not boring on skis!
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