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I have a pretty simple question here. Who makes a conscientious decision to choose British products over others?
The reason can be environmental, economical, national or whatever you like really. I try to buy the best quality gear, but I must admit that discovering a company is British pushes me over the edge. DMM make it quite easy, as their quality is first rate. I recently spent more money on a item of clothing than I ever had before, on a fantastic down jacket (Jottnar Fjorm), I didn't actually realise where the company was from before 95% making my decision.
My priorities are:
1) Quality*
2) Price
3) Made locally, in the country, U.K.
*Quality is anything qualitative about the object: Features, Ruggedness, Suitability, Aesthetics etc.
Post edited at 19:53
In reply to FreshSlate:
I think few people here would disagree with the order of that list. British is good but who is going to pay through the nose for it or buy an inferior product?
> My priorities are:
> 1) Quality*
> 2) Price
> 3) Made locally, in the country, U.K.
I think few people here would disagree with the order of that list. British is good but who is going to pay through the nose for it or buy an inferior product?
In reply to crayefish:
I agree, though I wasn't born in Britain and have only few relatives here. I appreciate any "Made not in China" product*, but it does not make it any better. I bought Montane Terras, which are made in Britain, because they are good. That's just an additional thing to consider, but I like that (though it's not my priority).
However, I found that buying from locally based companies (production place does not matter that much) will have way much better customer service. At one occasion, Asolo never replied me, at other occasion they weren't as helpful as, for example, Berghaus or Montane, which have brilliant service.
* - I have nothing against China, but products which are made locally feel "closer to the company". That is just feeling, not a fact.
I agree, though I wasn't born in Britain and have only few relatives here. I appreciate any "Made not in China" product*, but it does not make it any better. I bought Montane Terras, which are made in Britain, because they are good. That's just an additional thing to consider, but I like that (though it's not my priority).
However, I found that buying from locally based companies (production place does not matter that much) will have way much better customer service. At one occasion, Asolo never replied me, at other occasion they weren't as helpful as, for example, Berghaus or Montane, which have brilliant service.
* - I have nothing against China, but products which are made locally feel "closer to the company". That is just feeling, not a fact.
Post edited at 20:29
In reply to FreshSlate:
Not everyone has the option of splashing massive cash on gear. My priorties run with price and quality equal. If It's too expensive I can't buy it no matter how amazing it is, and in a broad market like outdoor clothing I'm sure the law of diminishing returns applies so there are plenty of cheaper options that are still very good.
If it is made in the UK then that's a bonus. If all UK made options were beyond your budget would you go without?
Not everyone has the option of splashing massive cash on gear. My priorties run with price and quality equal. If It's too expensive I can't buy it no matter how amazing it is, and in a broad market like outdoor clothing I'm sure the law of diminishing returns applies so there are plenty of cheaper options that are still very good.
If it is made in the UK then that's a bonus. If all UK made options were beyond your budget would you go without?
In reply to PPP:
Yeah local shops are probably just as important.
One point that is interesting that wolfo brought up is buying DMM products. They literally tick EVERY box. Local (especially being half Welsh!), top quality (usually the best), innovative and reasonably priced. Not only that, but they make low volume products (eg. deadman) that most wouldn't bother due to the lack of sales. It's almost like they make them to do us a favour rather than just make money! And NO, I don't work for them I probably use DMM for nearly all of my trad gear (nuts, hexes, QDs, some krabs, slings and harness) and purely based on performance. For winter stuff I also use a lot of Grivel stuff as I like them a lot too.
This poses me one question... are DMM as popular outside of the UK as in? Clearly they are not popular here just by being a local manufacturer, but do other countries see it that way?
Yeah local shops are probably just as important.
One point that is interesting that wolfo brought up is buying DMM products. They literally tick EVERY box. Local (especially being half Welsh!), top quality (usually the best), innovative and reasonably priced. Not only that, but they make low volume products (eg. deadman) that most wouldn't bother due to the lack of sales. It's almost like they make them to do us a favour rather than just make money! And NO, I don't work for them I probably use DMM for nearly all of my trad gear (nuts, hexes, QDs, some krabs, slings and harness) and purely based on performance. For winter stuff I also use a lot of Grivel stuff as I like them a lot too.
This poses me one question... are DMM as popular outside of the UK as in? Clearly they are not popular here just by being a local manufacturer, but do other countries see it that way?
Post edited at 20:49
In reply to crayefish:
They are also supposed to be really good employers and employ a good chunk of north Wales.
They are also supposed to be really good employers and employ a good chunk of north Wales.
In reply to gethin_allen:
Yeah good, point, I'm not rich so I definitely sacrafice having things at a particular moment and quantitity for quality. That kind of means I will stick with whatever I have and just wait till I have the money to buy the best. I do expect to pay about twice as much for something half as good again (diminishing returns).
Everyone has their breaking point of course but I feel I look after more expensive things a little better and there is value in that I will keep things longer. I kind of see a down jacket as a 10 year thing, thus the price is amortised over that period . I'd rather pay that extra fiver/tenner per year and have something nice.
Edit: Yes DMM have a good reputation in America and worldwide from what I gather. Even better than Black Diamond for some Americans (some are pissed about the manufacturing that moved to China). Americans are gear mental though, a new cam will come out and someone will buy a set just to try them out, they're like connoisseurs.
> Not everyone has the option of splashing massive cash on gear. My priorties run with price and quality equal. If It's too expensive I can't buy it no matter how amazing it is, and in a broad market like outdoor clothing I'm sure the law of diminishing returns applies so there are plenty of cheaper options that are still very good.
> If it is made in the UK then that's a bonus. If all UK made options were beyond your budget would you go without?
Yeah good, point, I'm not rich so I definitely sacrafice having things at a particular moment and quantitity for quality. That kind of means I will stick with whatever I have and just wait till I have the money to buy the best. I do expect to pay about twice as much for something half as good again (diminishing returns).
Everyone has their breaking point of course but I feel I look after more expensive things a little better and there is value in that I will keep things longer. I kind of see a down jacket as a 10 year thing, thus the price is amortised over that period . I'd rather pay that extra fiver/tenner per year and have something nice.
Edit: Yes DMM have a good reputation in America and worldwide from what I gather. Even better than Black Diamond for some Americans (some are pissed about the manufacturing that moved to China). Americans are gear mental though, a new cam will come out and someone will buy a set just to try them out, they're like connoisseurs.
Post edited at 20:59
In reply to FreshSlate:
Honest question. Why is it better to buy British? Is it just that the money stays in the British economy?
Honest question. Why is it better to buy British? Is it just that the money stays in the British economy?
In reply to deacondeacon:
I would welcome any answers to this question also.
1) Money stays in the economy, we are supporting our country folk.
2) Environmental issues, something manufactured locally will not have the transport footprint of something that is shipped from China.
3) Our country is held by stricter laws than others, workers rights and safe practices are upheld more in this country than others.
Off the top of my head, but perhaps someone can post better answers and/or disagree with buying locally.
I would welcome any answers to this question also.
1) Money stays in the economy, we are supporting our country folk.
2) Environmental issues, something manufactured locally will not have the transport footprint of something that is shipped from China.
3) Our country is held by stricter laws than others, workers rights and safe practices are upheld more in this country than others.
Off the top of my head, but perhaps someone can post better answers and/or disagree with buying locally.
In reply to PPP:
Oh, and also, I believe that in some cases, Brittish gear is very important. For example, waterproofs or tents, where we have rainy days often. Some US tents can not be called "waterproof" in the UK. I also believe that Brittish people know local conditions better than brands from Spain, US, etc. I have been soaked to the skin in few European countries and I didn't care much as in summer +33C temperature is just "okay" in some countries.
Oh, and also, I believe that in some cases, Brittish gear is very important. For example, waterproofs or tents, where we have rainy days often. Some US tents can not be called "waterproof" in the UK. I also believe that Brittish people know local conditions better than brands from Spain, US, etc. I have been soaked to the skin in few European countries and I didn't care much as in summer +33C temperature is just "okay" in some countries.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Most of my trad rack is DMM. As well as the social, environmental and economic benefits associated with buying local gear there is the design and development element too. DMM gear is designed, tested, improved and built around uk crags and the uk climbing scene.
For me, North Wales is an hour or so along the A55. Why would I want to buy a product designed and developed by someone in a different country, when Uk gear is tailored to the crags I'll be using it on?
Mike.
Most of my trad rack is DMM. As well as the social, environmental and economic benefits associated with buying local gear there is the design and development element too. DMM gear is designed, tested, improved and built around uk crags and the uk climbing scene.
For me, North Wales is an hour or so along the A55. Why would I want to buy a product designed and developed by someone in a different country, when Uk gear is tailored to the crags I'll be using it on?
Mike.
In reply to FreshSlate:
It's funny that Berghaus feel that a German sounding name will help them sell to UK consumers. But Jack Wolkskin are an actual German company and they chose an American sounding name to sell to German consumers.
It's funny that Berghaus feel that a German sounding name will help them sell to UK consumers. But Jack Wolkskin are an actual German company and they chose an American sounding name to sell to German consumers.
A counter-argument:
Comparative advantage - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage - suggests otherwise.
Minimal footprint for international trasnport. Your local delivery will probably involve more carbon output than shipping all the way from China.
True, but possibly best way to improve these in China is by helping the country develop economically.
> 1) Money stays in the economy, we are supporting our country folk.
Comparative advantage - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage - suggests otherwise.
> 2) Environmental issues, something manufactured locally will not have the transport footprint of something that is shipped from China.
Minimal footprint for international trasnport. Your local delivery will probably involve more carbon output than shipping all the way from China.
> 3) Our country is held by stricter laws than others, workers rights and safe practices are upheld more in this country than others.
True, but possibly best way to improve these in China is by helping the country develop economically.
In reply to iceaxejuggler:
Fair arguments.
1) It suggests a mutual benefit from trade, which is fine. Export the things you can make well/cheap and import what you find expensive/hard to produce. This is fine. The main thing is for companies to keep manufacturing and exporting, supporting DMM doesn't hinder that, if they're doing well, they can expand and produce for climbers world wide and if they're profiting then the workers here and the government profit. Producing products for a higher cost just for internal circulation when there are more competetive products on the global market does not make sense though, might as well rebrand something else and actually produce something profitable.
Me buying a cam from America doesn't figure in this though. It's just a simple net loss to the economy.
2) Not sure how this can be true, surely once internationally shipped, it must then arrive via local delivery.
3) Yes, I had thought of this. Fair point, probably better than direct aid too.
Fair arguments.
1) It suggests a mutual benefit from trade, which is fine. Export the things you can make well/cheap and import what you find expensive/hard to produce. This is fine. The main thing is for companies to keep manufacturing and exporting, supporting DMM doesn't hinder that, if they're doing well, they can expand and produce for climbers world wide and if they're profiting then the workers here and the government profit. Producing products for a higher cost just for internal circulation when there are more competetive products on the global market does not make sense though, might as well rebrand something else and actually produce something profitable.
Me buying a cam from America doesn't figure in this though. It's just a simple net loss to the economy.
2) Not sure how this can be true, surely once internationally shipped, it must then arrive via local delivery.
3) Yes, I had thought of this. Fair point, probably better than direct aid too.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Jöttnar are British but all the gear is made in China. I interviewed the Steve and Tommy recently - hopefully for an upcoming magazine article - about this; basically there is very little capacity and skills for making technical clothing in the UK on any form of scale. Hence quality is likely to be better for chinese made products. They are very careful about ethical/environmental/workers' rights issues too. Lots of organisation that check Chinese companies for their compliance on such things for companies having their manufacturing done in China.
> a fantastic down jacket (Jottnar Fjorm), I didn't actually realise where the company was from before 95% making my decision.
Jöttnar are British but all the gear is made in China. I interviewed the Steve and Tommy recently - hopefully for an upcoming magazine article - about this; basically there is very little capacity and skills for making technical clothing in the UK on any form of scale. Hence quality is likely to be better for chinese made products. They are very careful about ethical/environmental/workers' rights issues too. Lots of organisation that check Chinese companies for their compliance on such things for companies having their manufacturing done in China.
> This poses me one question... are DMM as popular outside of the UK as in? Clearly they are not popular here just by being a local manufacturer, but do other countries see it that way?
In addition to the States and Spain/France, I've come across their stuff in Hong Kong and Singapore, so they definitely are out there.
Just an aside, they have a PDF version of their product catalogue on their website, but it's worth searching out a hard copy as it's a really surprisingly well produced catalogue and makes a good read. This prob says a lot about the company quality strategy.
In reply to FreshSlate:
which is fine, but it rather depends upon whether you want to retain any future ability to return to that manufacturing capability: as Toby A says, Jottnar couldn't source their kit from the UK - i'm pretty sure we used to be ok at making clothes…it also tends to ignore hidden costs/benefits which translate to the bottom line - Citroen cars are quite cheap, but they're supported by the French government, Chinese workers get paid less per day than i do, european & US farming is has a fairly (or unfairly, depending on your perspective!) level of support ...
Absolutely. Whilst international shipping is very cheap per mile, it still entails a cost both financially & environmentally
Oh, for sure: now Saudi Arabia is a 'high-income economy' they've become so much more enlightened to our Western sensibilities & egalitarian moral stance. Oh.
The final point rather depends upon how much political/social influence the market really has - probably a lot eventually, but it takes time. Given some people will still be happy to buy a trainer (insert consumer item of your choice) because it's sooo much cooler than last year's (which they also bought) and cheap they are ok with the fact it was made by a 4 year-old.
ultimately, if i can find a British (or European) made product that is of good quality then i'm happy to pay a bit more for it: if someone in North Wales has more money in their pocket, they're more likely to be able to afford my services (contract killing) which makes me happy
A lot of our kit tends to have a pretty long half-life (my Mountain Technology mountaineering axe will outlast my kids, i'm sure) and as someone above said if a product lasts 10 years, then the extra cost per year/week/day is fairly minimal
lardbrain
> Fair arguments.
but not entirely unflawed> 1) It suggests a mutual benefit from trade, which is fine. Export the things you can make well/cheap and import what you find expensive/hard to produce. This is fine. The main thing is for companies to keep manufacturing and exporting, supporting DMM doesn't hinder that, if they're doing well, they can expand and produce for climbers world wide and if they're profiting then the workers here and the government profit. Producing products for a higher cost just for internal circulation when there are more competetive products on the global market does not make sense though, might as well rebrand something else and actually produce something profitable.
which is fine, but it rather depends upon whether you want to retain any future ability to return to that manufacturing capability: as Toby A says, Jottnar couldn't source their kit from the UK - i'm pretty sure we used to be ok at making clothes…it also tends to ignore hidden costs/benefits which translate to the bottom line - Citroen cars are quite cheap, but they're supported by the French government, Chinese workers get paid less per day than i do, european & US farming is has a fairly (or unfairly, depending on your perspective!) level of support ...
> 2) Not sure how this can be true, surely once internationally shipped, it must then arrive via local delivery.
Absolutely. Whilst international shipping is very cheap per mile, it still entails a cost both financially & environmentally
> 3) Yes, I had thought of this. Fair point, probably better than direct aid too.
Oh, for sure: now Saudi Arabia is a 'high-income economy' they've become so much more enlightened to our Western sensibilities & egalitarian moral stance. Oh.
The final point rather depends upon how much political/social influence the market really has - probably a lot eventually, but it takes time. Given some people will still be happy to buy a trainer (insert consumer item of your choice) because it's sooo much cooler than last year's (which they also bought) and cheap they are ok with the fact it was made by a 4 year-old.
ultimately, if i can find a British (or European) made product that is of good quality then i'm happy to pay a bit more for it: if someone in North Wales has more money in their pocket, they're more likely to be able to afford my services (contract killing) which makes me happy
A lot of our kit tends to have a pretty long half-life (my Mountain Technology mountaineering axe will outlast my kids, i'm sure) and as someone above said if a product lasts 10 years, then the extra cost per year/week/day is fairly minimal
lardbrain
In reply to FreshSlate:
I had a student holiday job putting Union Jack stickers onto plastic wallets that held hand tools. The tools were made in China; the plastic wallets were made in UK...
I had a student holiday job putting Union Jack stickers onto plastic wallets that held hand tools. The tools were made in China; the plastic wallets were made in UK...
In reply to TobyA:
So British company with a Scandinavian sounding name that makes it's gear in China.
Hmm, consumers are suckers for a name that suggests some form of providence even if It's completely hollow.
So British company with a Scandinavian sounding name that makes it's gear in China.
Hmm, consumers are suckers for a name that suggests some form of providence even if It's completely hollow.
In reply to gethin_allen: They came up with the idea for the company while serving in Norway. Do people really buy because of a cool name without learning more about product/company?
In reply to TobyA:
Good point, yeah I do actually realise this but I've not made it too clear with the comparasion with DMM. Anything clothing or material based item bought from a British brand is inevitably going to involve China at some stage. You are right, I am simply supporting the non manufacturing side of the company here. But I am okay with that, and it still helps supporting design, testing, martketing jobs etc.
@Lardbrain interesting post. I enjoyed that, I think eventually a better economy affords better practices (China's improving right? It seems so but I'm not at ground zero) but you're right it takes time. Also quite happy to support Welsh workers and Scottish too for a few more months .
Good point, yeah I do actually realise this but I've not made it too clear with the comparasion with DMM. Anything clothing or material based item bought from a British brand is inevitably going to involve China at some stage. You are right, I am simply supporting the non manufacturing side of the company here. But I am okay with that, and it still helps supporting design, testing, martketing jobs etc.
@Lardbrain interesting post. I enjoyed that, I think eventually a better economy affords better practices (China's improving right? It seems so but I'm not at ground zero) but you're right it takes time. Also quite happy to support Welsh workers and Scottish too for a few more months .
Post edited at 04:40
In reply to crayefish:
Nope, DMM has some quality products that are about the best in the market (eg. Wallnuts and Offsets, especially for deep-crust rocks like granite). Then some products are good, but there are "better" option at the same price range. Eg. you see a lot more Camalots with people here in the Nordic countries than you see with Dragons. The thing is that Camalots have been on the market longer and the Dragon doesn't offer much/any benefits while still costing the same -> people buy the tested and proven thing.
> This poses me one question... are DMM as popular outside of the UK as in? Clearly they are not popular here just by being a local manufacturer, but do other countries see it that way?
Nope, DMM has some quality products that are about the best in the market (eg. Wallnuts and Offsets, especially for deep-crust rocks like granite). Then some products are good, but there are "better" option at the same price range. Eg. you see a lot more Camalots with people here in the Nordic countries than you see with Dragons. The thing is that Camalots have been on the market longer and the Dragon doesn't offer much/any benefits while still costing the same -> people buy the tested and proven thing.
In reply to crayefish:
reading american climbing forums they seem to feel about black diamond the way do about DMM. Also DMM is a lot more expensive than BD over there.
> This poses me one question... are DMM as popular outside of the UK as in? Clearly they are not popular here just by being a local manufacturer, but do other countries see it that way?
reading american climbing forums they seem to feel about black diamond the way do about DMM. Also DMM is a lot more expensive than BD over there.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Hmmm, trick one for me, I am in Procurement, so I guess as I have the purse strings of a multinational Energy company behind me, I have millions to spend rather than just a few thousand.
Truth is, it is very difficult to do so , and keep within company procedures. Their offer has to stack up financially, however, usually they will have a logistical advantage that I can 'leverage' .
Hmmm, trick one for me, I am in Procurement, so I guess as I have the purse strings of a multinational Energy company behind me, I have millions to spend rather than just a few thousand.
Truth is, it is very difficult to do so , and keep within company procedures. Their offer has to stack up financially, however, usually they will have a logistical advantage that I can 'leverage' .
In reply to FreshSlate:
Gear aside, I always try to buy food made in Britain whenever possible. With things like fruit, they often have British produce mixed in the same bin as stuff from Spain/ Italy/ Morocco/ Chile/ New Zealand but since they now have to label where it was produced you can pick out the British ones. The cost is the same, presumably the quality is the same but given the choice I'll go for the one with the least miles travelled. Plus there's a certain satisfaction that your supporting someone down the road.
Gear aside, I always try to buy food made in Britain whenever possible. With things like fruit, they often have British produce mixed in the same bin as stuff from Spain/ Italy/ Morocco/ Chile/ New Zealand but since they now have to label where it was produced you can pick out the British ones. The cost is the same, presumably the quality is the same but given the choice I'll go for the one with the least miles travelled. Plus there's a certain satisfaction that your supporting someone down the road.
In reply to PPP:
I'd take a closer look at the labels... Montane manufacture in China.
> I bought Montane Terras, which are made in Britain, because they are good
I'd take a closer look at the labels... Montane manufacture in China.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Believe a lot manufacture in the far east due to the skills gap. More work should be done to restart some work of industry through apprentice schemes over here.
Try to buy British and support local business but price is an issue. Given a flat choice between products (as I was recently) that cost the same and appear to my novice eyes to be as good I went for Wild Country over DMM and Black Diamond as they were only 20 miles from the house. If it helps keep folk in work in areas that dont have a lot of local industry then I'll support it where possible.
Believe a lot manufacture in the far east due to the skills gap. More work should be done to restart some work of industry through apprentice schemes over here.
Try to buy British and support local business but price is an issue. Given a flat choice between products (as I was recently) that cost the same and appear to my novice eyes to be as good I went for Wild Country over DMM and Black Diamond as they were only 20 miles from the house. If it helps keep folk in work in areas that dont have a lot of local industry then I'll support it where possible.
In reply to Pepper:
I think largely than other than giving you a smug warm feeling about 'buying British' it makes no difference where the stuff you've bought is made.
It's all one global economy and trying to separate the manufacturing from where the raw materials are mined and where the banking is done, etc etc. is meaningless.
I think largely than other than giving you a smug warm feeling about 'buying British' it makes no difference where the stuff you've bought is made.
It's all one global economy and trying to separate the manufacturing from where the raw materials are mined and where the banking is done, etc etc. is meaningless.
In reply to JayPee630:
I can see where you're coming from, but I've got to disagree. Yes, things are very global nowadays, but the positive economic impact of buying british goes far, far beyond the product you buy.
As an example, if I buy a DMM cam this means the DMM factory exists in Wales. This keeps the peeeps in DMM in a job. The DMM peeps buy/rent local houses, which puts their wages (i.e. my cam money) back into the local comminuty. The DMM staff buy their lunch in the local cornershop. The cornershop owner therefore has a job. The cornershop owner buys their new kettle in the local electrical shop.... etc.
Yes - the cam's aluminium might (or might not!) be mined in peru, the raw material processed in outer mongolia etc. but the fact that you buy it from a UK company at least helps keep some of your money here in the UK, by a wide variety of means, which is most definitely a very good thing for our economy.
Mike.
> I think largely than other than giving you a smug warm feeling about 'buying British' it makes no difference where the stuff you've bought is made.
> It's all one global economy and trying to separate the manufacturing from where the raw materials are mined and where the banking is done, etc etc. is meaningless.
I can see where you're coming from, but I've got to disagree. Yes, things are very global nowadays, but the positive economic impact of buying british goes far, far beyond the product you buy.
As an example, if I buy a DMM cam this means the DMM factory exists in Wales. This keeps the peeeps in DMM in a job. The DMM peeps buy/rent local houses, which puts their wages (i.e. my cam money) back into the local comminuty. The DMM staff buy their lunch in the local cornershop. The cornershop owner therefore has a job. The cornershop owner buys their new kettle in the local electrical shop.... etc.
Yes - the cam's aluminium might (or might not!) be mined in peru, the raw material processed in outer mongolia etc. but the fact that you buy it from a UK company at least helps keep some of your money here in the UK, by a wide variety of means, which is most definitely a very good thing for our economy.
Mike.
In reply to Pepper:
But how much do WC actually make in this country any more?
> Try to buy British and support local business but price is an issue. Given a flat choice between products (as I was recently) that cost the same and appear to my novice eyes to be as good I went for Wild Country over DMM and Black Diamond as they were only 20 miles from the house.
But how much do WC actually make in this country any more?
In reply to andrewmcleod:
They used to, but I think that change when they were bought out by an Italian company.
They used to, but I think that change when they were bought out by an Italian company.
In reply to TobyA:
Yes!
> Do people really buy because of a cool name without learning more about product/company?
Yes!
In reply to FreshSlate:
I'm afraid I'm one of those daft old buggers who buy British regardless of quality and price. It costs me a fortune, and I end up with some inferior stuff, but a principal is not negotiable.
I'm afraid I'm one of those daft old buggers who buy British regardless of quality and price. It costs me a fortune, and I end up with some inferior stuff, but a principal is not negotiable.
In reply to AndyP:
But why hold it if you realise it does you no good?
> but a principal is not negotiable.
But why hold it if you realise it does you no good?
In reply to FreshSlate:
I'm American, and I buy DMM gear when I can.
This video really helped confirm their dedication to quality.
vimeo.com/50981189
I'm American, and I buy DMM gear when I can.
This video really helped confirm their dedication to quality.
vimeo.com/50981189
In reply to Kai:
Thanks for posting - that video was genuinely fascinating.
If anyone's got half an hour to spare it is definitely worth a watch and just goes to show how much attention, detail and expertise goes into making event the simplest pieces of climbing kit.
Having watched it I don't think I'll be grumbling at the price of carabiners any time soon - they're a bargian!
Mike.
> This video really helped confirm their dedication to quality.
Thanks for posting - that video was genuinely fascinating.
If anyone's got half an hour to spare it is definitely worth a watch and just goes to show how much attention, detail and expertise goes into making event the simplest pieces of climbing kit.
Having watched it I don't think I'll be grumbling at the price of carabiners any time soon - they're a bargian!
Mike.
In reply to andrewmcleod:
No idea tbh, there were three options and one was listed as being made nearby. Didn't research much further than that sorry, kinda faux buy British I suppose.
No idea tbh, there were three options and one was listed as being made nearby. Didn't research much further than that sorry, kinda faux buy British I suppose.
In reply to all:
The fact remains that almost all (if not 100%) of commercially used nylon is produced in china. regardless of the claims by a company being made/designed in the UK, it will almost certainly have been produced in the far east.
The fact remains that almost all (if not 100%) of commercially used nylon is produced in china. regardless of the claims by a company being made/designed in the UK, it will almost certainly have been produced in the far east.
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
That's true, it becomes about design. Think where Apple gets (the majority of) it's parts from.
That's true, it becomes about design. Think where Apple gets (the majority of) it's parts from.
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