/ Recommendations for edge rated ropes?

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matthewtraver - on 14 Mar 2014
Hey,

It's been a long while since I've needed to buy a rope, so I'm a bit out of the loop... can anyone recommend any edge rated single ropes (preferably 10mm to 10.5mm)?

Thanks!
crayefish - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to matthewtraver:

Can't help on edge rating, but a unicore type rope would probably be beneficial for something like that.
CurlyStevo - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to crayefish:

any evidence for that?
crayefish - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> any evidence for that?

Well if the rope sheath is damaged due to abrasion over the edge (likely if used over edges), then the new types of rope where the sheath is bonded to the core would prevent the sheath slipping off if the sheath is cut completely. Rope obviously unusable at this point, but would stop the rope slipping through a device that grips the outer (eg. ropeman type things and to a lesser extent, a belay plate.
CurlyStevo - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to crayefish:
I thought the sharp edge test was number of falls held over a sharp edge before the rope breaks not until the sheath gets damaged. In any case the UIAA no longer require this test now partially as there was a lot of variation between manufacturers.

I think the main advantage to unicore ropes is that once the sheath has gone through you can still ascend/descend the rope although it is said to help with sheath slippage too (not something I've had an issue with, with mammut ropes but I have with beal).

Abrasion resistance depends on tightness of sheath and greater sheath percentage (along with a lower bobbin count) and like for like mammut ropes are generally better in this regard compared with beal. (this article is quite interesting http://theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/Conference_on_nylon_and_ropes.pdf )

Sharp edge resistance I must admit I don't know which factors affect this (and I doubt you do either) I think we'd need to see some actual tests. But Beal do NOT state that Unicore technology helps in any way with this and they would have tested it as its a standard test on their ropes. I'm guessing there is little net gain with Unicore.
Post edited at 17:15
Camm on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Having had ropes almost cut on me in the past I can see the benifit of unicore also I have been using 2 brand new beal ice lines, one unicore, one not, the unicore doesn't absorb as much water. One of them gets tangled and one of them doesn't I can't remember which way around.
CurlyStevo - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to matthewtraver:

I'd ignore sharp edge rating as UIAA stopped requiring the test as there were issues with applying it consistently.

For half ropes I think mammut are overall the best choice as they are very abrasion resistant and handle reasonably well. For single ropes I find the mammut ropes a little too wire like and will probably get something else next time. Elderid seem to have a good balance of abrasion resistance and being good to handle.

That said to be fair on beal my beal top gun was also a good rope.
crayefish - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> I thought the sharp edge test was number of falls held over a sharp edge before the rope breaks not until the sheath gets damaged. In any case the UIAA no longer require this test now partially as there was a lot of variation between manufacturers.

Yes that is right. But a rope failure includes the sheath slipping off I am very sure. After all, if you're ascending or descending a rope and the sheath is cute, you don't care about how well the core is intact while you're plummeting attached only to the sheath :)


> Abrasion resistance depends on tightness of sheath and greater sheath percentage (along with a lower bobbin count) and like for like mammut ropes are generally better in this regard compared with beal. (this article is quite interesting http://theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/Conference_on_nylon_and_ropes.pdf )

Yep.

> But Beal do NOT state that Unicore technology helps in any way with this and they would have tested it as its a standard test on their ropes.

I would assume because the edge test, as you said, has been stopped as it was shown to be an unrealistic test that gave people the impression ropes were designed or able to resist this sort of abrasion, thus encouraging them not to protect the ropes over edges.

CurlyStevo - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to danrock101:
> " One of them gets tangled and one of them doesn't I can't remember which way around."
haha....

> "Having had ropes almost cut on me in the past"
Good god if your profile is up to date and you are only 21 sounds like you are doing some thing very wrong. I have never and also don't know anyone personally that has had there rope cut through. I've retired the odd rope as the core was showing due to abrasion but unicore doesn't help with that and as mentioned other factors affect when a ropes will need to be retired due to abrasion. Unicore would IMO have a negative impact as more of the sheath of the rope is in the core
Post edited at 17:37
CurlyStevo - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to crayefish:

>"Yes that is right. But a rope failure includes the sheath slipping off I am very sure. After all, if you're ascending or descending a rope and the sheath is cute, "

If the core is intact the rope hasn't failed, but it would need retiring if its showing atall.

> "you don't care about how well the core is intact while you're plummeting attached only to the sheath :)"
That's not what happens in practice as the core is also in all the knots so the climbers will stay attached to the rope.

> "I would assume because the edge test, as you said, has been stopped as it was shown to be an unrealistic test that gave people the impression ropes were designed or able to resist this sort of abrasion, thus encouraging them not to protect the ropes over edges."

Nope its what I said
http://theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/Important_notice-_UIAA_Safety_Standard_108_suspended.pdf
crayefish - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:

> >"Yes that is right. But a rope failure includes the sheath slipping off I am very sure. After all, if you're ascending or descending a rope and the sheath is cute, "

> If the core is intact the rope hasn't failed, but it would need retiring if its showing atall.

It has if the sheath has cut enough to separate and thus you slide off the end!!!

> That's not what happens in practice as the core is also in all the knots so the climbers will stay attached to the rope.

Yes if you're climbing and tied in... of course. But that isn't always the case - i.e. ascending or descending. And of course the person at the other end is belaying through a plate (chance of core slipping through sheath) and might not always be tied to the other end (though it is good practice to do so).
matthewtraver - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to matthewtraver:

Hi guys,

Thanks for the input and discussion. Much appreciated :)

It looks like the Beal Top Gun II 10.5m (unicore) is a good option. Any other suggestions welcomed.
Kai - on 14 Mar 2014
In reply to matthewtraver:

Edelweiss makes a number of sharp edge resistant ropes. Here's a link to their 10.5 offering

http://www.edelweiss-ropes.com/en/single-rope/15-geos-105mm.html

matthewtraver - on 15 Mar 2014
In reply to Kai:

Thanks!
Hannes on 15 Mar 2014
In reply to matthewtraver:

I'm pretty sure they did away with that test years ago as it wasn't very good
CurlyStevo - on 17 Mar 2014
In reply to crayefish:

> (In reply to CurlyStevo)
>
> [...]
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> [...]
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> It has if the sheath has cut enough to separate and thus you slide off the end!!!
>
> [...]
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> Yes if you're climbing and tied in... of course. But that isn't always the case - i.e. ascending or descending. And of course the person at the other end is belaying through a plate (chance of core slipping through sheath) and might not always be tied to the other end (though it is good practice to do so).

Can you provide an instance when a climber has slid of the end of the rope because only the sheath was cut?

I found some literature which says this is only likely to occur if the sheath is cut through close to then ends, I had a google about and couldn't actually find an instance of this occurring. I think you are over emphasising the importance of unicore in this regard! (but equally not saying its never happened)
Post edited at 10:24
Camm on 26 Mar 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:
It's nearly up to date... once while seconding I fell off, taking s swing and the rope rubbed across gritstone bulge, cutting through most of the sheath. I was lowered off as the belayer spotted the cut.

While absailing on slate, similar kind of damage, didn't know untill we pulled the rope, this was abing off a dedicated bolted ab point, there were edges but nothing major or so we thought.

Then the third time with an instructor, this wasn't a cut through to the core but I was on top rope and took a fall with a very small swing, I was looking up at the rope and witnessed the rope turn into a pipe cleaner when it came in contact with the rock.

All the ropes were decent single ropes.
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CurlyStevo - on 26 Mar 2014
In reply to danrock101:

Ok so none of them actually cut through then! Still if we ever climb together remind me to use your ropes!

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