UKC

Do people think a shelled micro pile jacket, or a lightweight softshell would be best for summer alpine climbing (classic routes) around Chamonix?

Shelled micro pile: Rab VR Lite Alpine, Marmot DriClime, ME Ultratherm, Rab Alpine jacket, Montane Krypton etc.

Lightweight softshell: Haglofs Skarn, ME Orbital jacket, etc.

It would be worn over a lightweight baselayer and I'd have a backup waterproof and down jacket in my pack.

Cheers,
BR

In reply to blackreaver:

I've always considered both to be "softshells" with slightly different characteristics. I don't think one is better than the other and on a given day I might pick either style up. I do however love my Marmot DriClime, it's possibly the most versatile garment that I own. My first experience with softshell in the alps was with a similar Patagonia pertex shell top and that experience convinced me of the value of softshell and I totally rethought my clothing system. On that trip it wasn't until I got back down into the valley that I realised that for the first time, EVER, I had not stopped to change during the climb with temperatures varying from freezing at 2 am in the morning and into the hot mid-day sun.

In reply to blackreaver:
I have one of each and wear as conditions dictate both are ideal for summer alpine stuff with a lightweight goretex and spare insulating layer in the sack. I think the "softshell" concept really works in the Alps in the summer. The weight and packability of these garments means carrying both not really a problem.

In reply to blackreaver:

I have a Montane Krypton, but think it would be to hot for most summer alpine stuff. That's where I use my Rab Boreas...

In reply to timmeehhhh:

Do you find the Rab Boreas windproof enough? They say it's more of a midlayer

In reply to blackreaver:
I tend to climb in fair weather, and for that it has always served me well. When active I produce enough warmth to keep comfortable and breathability is my prime concern. When inactive, or during really cold alpine starts, I layer it with a light primaloft jacket.
Unfortunately the hood on the Boreas is not helmet compatible (anymore, since my 3 year old version does fit over my helmet).

In reply to timmeehhhh:

Out of interest, as I'm facing a similar decision what do people think is the best softshell/shelled microfleece for alpine climbing, just looking for a list to find to try on?

In reply to blackreaver:
I'm leaning towards a Rab VR Light/Rab Alpine Jacket/ME Ultratherm.
I think a full 400-500g softshell may be too warm

Still unsure which one though. I'm unsure of the windproof-ness and durability of pertex equilibrium. Is ME's He30 much better? (I'm pretty sure it's windproof but it's really light <30g/m2)

In reply to blackreaver:

i wore a rab BOREAS pull on, which is very light stretchy and blocks some wind. over a $10 thin fleece over a helly. i was very comfortable in good weather. walking troo with no base layer. gaiters.

In reply to blackreaver:
Personally I would get a thin uninsulated stretchy soft shell with a hood you then have the option what you wear underneath it.

In reply to blackreaver:
IME a shelled micro-lined thing like you mention is much warmer than a non-membrane and unlined softshell.

I don't get why people want lined things, like someone has mentioned get a unlined one (windshirt or softshell) and then you can decide what you wear under it to insulate.

What does me in all conditions is:

Base layer (of various thickness and type from a simple tshirt through to an R1 hoody type)
Thin 100 w fleece (summer) or a hooded Polartec Alpha top (winter)
Windshirt (summer) or non-membrane softshell (winter)

Waterproof and Primaloft top to be carried.

In reply to JayPee630:

Thanks everyone for your help so far.
So basically, it looks like I'm looking for an unlined windshell (lightweight softshell).

People have mentioned the Rab Boreas, however has anyone found the non-helmet compatible hood a problem?
The only windshell I can find with a helmet compatible hood is the Rab Alpine jacket, however pertex equilibrium is not completely windproof and it bobbles after a bit of wear.

I'm also looking at other things such as the Rab Cirrus, Montane Shark/Mountain Star/Lite-Speed but I'm not sure whether they'd stand up to the rigors of rock/alpine climbing (they look like they're designed more for trail running) and also lack a helmet compatible hood. The Arc'teryx Squamish hoodie looks good but is expensive.

If the durability is a concern with Pertex and similar fabrics, it brings me back full circle to things like the Rab Boreas and Zephyr jacket.

Thanks for taking the time to read my long/slightly confusing post,
BR

In reply to blackreaver:
Stretchy soft shell breathes better and is nicer to wear as well as being a lot more durable when rock climbing. I have a stretchy soft shell jacket I've worn for years, some of the zips are gone and the pockets are wearing through but the fabric is still fine and water beeds up on it and it's not scuffed

Of course it's a little less wind and water resistant than pertex but it's still good enough and you dry more quickly if you do get wet. Get one without a membrane.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Base layer with a Rab Boreas and then an ME Orbital over the top when its windy. Find fleece underneath is over kill for any extended movement but I haven't done any proper alpine stuff up high so could be worthwhile having one with you. I just add another base layer if its a bit colder than usual. Add the Montane Prism over the top when i'm stood about for a while.

Hood on the Boreas is actually okay with helmets, it does zip up but its not the most comfortable, much better half zipped. Can be worn underneath instead if its a problem anyway.

In reply to Nath93:

Rab Boreas isn't really a soft shell is it? Can't see any mention of a DWR.

I used the rab exodus last summer in the Alps which is really my winter soft shell, it was a little heavy and not as breathable as a lighter soft shell. My summer soft shell is so old now its not relevant to mention the model but its much thinner, still pretty wind and water resistant though but it could do with a hood really.

Is the ME orbital stretchy?

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yeah, I wouldn't have the Rab Boreas down as a softshell or windproof, it's some kinda odd (but very good) light mid-layer/slightly windproof top.

In reply to JayPee630:

Montane Alpine Stretch is the best lightweight "proper" softshell I've found. But the Rab VR Alpine Lite might suit just as well. I have the latter in a vest rather than with sleeves and it works well with (guess what?) the Rab Boreas everyone else has been mentioning. For three season use on Skye, these two together with a long sleeve baselayer cover all conditions except wet.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
No not a softshell but it is a decent wind block and great for a windy walk in. I wear mine all year round pretty much, layer it up with the Orbital and it works great.

Orbital has a bit of stretch but not much. The cut could be a bit longer IMO, other that its a really good jacket and the hood is excellent.

In reply to BnB:
Ditto, after recommendations on here (partly by BnB) I bought a Montane Alpine Stretch and have found it excellent. I think I'd only buy something similar (a light unlined, non membrane) softshell.

In reply to Nath93:
is the Orbital material more like pertex or more like scholler?

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Schoeller.

In reply to blackreaver:

Okay, so I'm scrapping the idea of a pertex or similar windshell due to its poor abrasion resistance and breathability (compared to unlined softshell).

The big US brands don't really fit me as i'm pretty skinny with long arms, so I'm looking at brands such as Rab, ME, Berghaus, Haglofs, Mammut and Arc'teryx.

Currently considering:
Montane Alpine Stretch
ME Orbital (limited stretch)
Haglofs Skarn
Rab Zephyr jacket (non helmet compatible hood, similar to the Boreas with a full length zip and double weave softshell on the shoulders and arms and DWR coating)
Arc'teryx Gamma SL Hybrid (Expensive, not very durable?)
Berghaus Pordoi

Given that I'd be wearing it over a synthetic baselayer and I'd have a Berghaus Velum and MH Phantom down jacket in my bag, can anyone recommend any of the above?

Thanks again,
BR

In reply to CurlyStevo: Its not like Pertex really, ME use the Exolite II(?) fabric on it I think so similar to the material on their Guide gloves.

I've been using it every day for over a year now and have no complaints really. I can say that the fact it doesn't stretch doesn't stop you from using full range of movement.

The OP won't go far wrong with the Alpine Stretch, I seen it in Go Outdoors after I bought the Orbital and although it feel a bit flimsier I wish I had one for days when the Orbital might be a bit too heavy.

In reply to blackreaver:

I've used rab vr extensively its excellent. But softshells work v well too. The down is a waste of time much better to have a synthetic as its a nasty wet storm that will kill you.

In reply to blackreaver:

The arcteryx gamma Lt is very durable and works well.

In reply to blackreaver:

Try as many as you can and get the one that fits best? They're all good.