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Hi all, just wanted to canvas opinion on some easy but satisfying mountaineering style routes in Ogwen. Not really ready to tackle the bonefide multi-pitch mountain routes such as those on the east face of Tryfan, but looking for some routes that act as as a stepping stone from easier scrambling. I'm happy with very easy single pitch leading (Mod and Diff)and we've tackled Curved Ridge in Glencoe (scramble 2/3) and we're regular visitors to Ogwen so we know the area and rock-type well. I've got a decent understanding of ropework and would be planning to take a rope and rack on all the routes I mention below.
I've got all the guidebooks and I can obviously google, but wanted to have a bit of a conversation with people with good knowledge of the climbs who could help me contrast and compare to decide which ones to attempt. Routes in mind currently:
On Glyder Fach:
Dolmen Ridge
Main Gully and/or Main Gully Ridge
East Gully Arete
Cneifion Arete
East Ridge of Y Garn
Plus all the easy routes on Tryfan Bach (as my first true multi-pitch) and possibly sub-cniefion arete if we're feeling confident after ticking some of the above.
Cneifion Arete seems to be one of the easiest and highest quality of the routes (and also one the the best documented). I watched a video of it on youtube and it seems to tick all our boxes, other than perhaps being crowded on a good day. How do the others compare with this? Do you have a favourite?
Also, if anyone could recommend a good instructor/guide in the area I'd be open to spending a day getting some coaching on multi-pitch techniques so we can be safer and quicker subsequently.
I've got all the guidebooks and I can obviously google, but wanted to have a bit of a conversation with people with good knowledge of the climbs who could help me contrast and compare to decide which ones to attempt. Routes in mind currently:
On Glyder Fach:
Dolmen Ridge
Main Gully and/or Main Gully Ridge
East Gully Arete
Cneifion Arete
East Ridge of Y Garn
Plus all the easy routes on Tryfan Bach (as my first true multi-pitch) and possibly sub-cniefion arete if we're feeling confident after ticking some of the above.
Cneifion Arete seems to be one of the easiest and highest quality of the routes (and also one the the best documented). I watched a video of it on youtube and it seems to tick all our boxes, other than perhaps being crowded on a good day. How do the others compare with this? Do you have a favourite?
Also, if anyone could recommend a good instructor/guide in the area I'd be open to spending a day getting some coaching on multi-pitch techniques so we can be safer and quicker subsequently.
In reply to Oujmik:
Cheifion arete is good, and there is a rib lower down the valley (Called sub-Cneifion arete I think) which you could tackle as a warm up. (It's easier to climb, and easier to escape off the sides if you don't like how it's going).
Cneifion arete itself is a superb route. It's exposed to the elements (winds, communications difficult) and has one or two 'interesting' pitches.
Can you abseil if it gets too much? (Take some tape to enable a pull-through retreat - do you know what I'm on about when I say that?)
Cheifion arete is good, and there is a rib lower down the valley (Called sub-Cneifion arete I think) which you could tackle as a warm up. (It's easier to climb, and easier to escape off the sides if you don't like how it's going).
Cneifion arete itself is a superb route. It's exposed to the elements (winds, communications difficult) and has one or two 'interesting' pitches.
Can you abseil if it gets too much? (Take some tape to enable a pull-through retreat - do you know what I'm on about when I say that?)
In reply to Oujmik:
NW Face of Glyder Fach links nicely with Cneifion Arete for a compact day out
Wrinkled Tower on Tryfan is also worthwhile, 'at the limits of scrambling' I think the Ashton book says!
NW Face of Glyder Fach links nicely with Cneifion Arete for a compact day out
Wrinkled Tower on Tryfan is also worthwhile, 'at the limits of scrambling' I think the Ashton book says!
In reply to Oujmik:
Waved Slab (D) & Left Edge (VD) on Carnedd Y Filiast are great. Assuming the answer to the gear question is "yes".
Waved Slab (D) & Left Edge (VD) on Carnedd Y Filiast are great. Assuming the answer to the gear question is "yes".
In reply to Oujmik:
N face of Tryfan down to Bwlch Tryfan and then up Bristly ridge over the glyders and back down Seniors or Y gribin for a fantastic day out.
N face of Tryfan down to Bwlch Tryfan and then up Bristly ridge over the glyders and back down Seniors or Y gribin for a fantastic day out.
In reply to JamButty:
Thanks for replies. Yes I can lead and place gear and build belays. And yes I do know how to set up an abseil and retrieve the rope (although only ever done it once in anger to retrieve a stuck cam).
Thanks for replies. Yes I can lead and place gear and build belays. And yes I do know how to set up an abseil and retrieve the rope (although only ever done it once in anger to retrieve a stuck cam).
In reply to blurty:
Interesting you say sub-cneifion rib is easier than cniefion arete. The guidebooks suggest SCR is a VDiff multipitch whereas CA is two pitches of Diff plus a scramble.
SCR does look very easy-angled in photos...
Interesting you say sub-cneifion rib is easier than cniefion arete. The guidebooks suggest SCR is a VDiff multipitch whereas CA is two pitches of Diff plus a scramble.
SCR does look very easy-angled in photos...
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
The Tryfan Bristly route is already on the list as we've done Tryfan and Y Gribin a few times but have unfinished business with Bristly (injury and wet rock forced retreat from Bwlch Tryan.
The Tryfan Bristly route is already on the list as we've done Tryfan and Y Gribin a few times but have unfinished business with Bristly (injury and wet rock forced retreat from Bwlch Tryan.
In reply to Oujmik:
Right, sorry, maybe my memory is deceiving me. I though sub-cneifion was more of a scramble whereas the arete a climb.
Ignore my advice, I'm sure the guidebook is correct
(You could walk up that way though and check it out on the way past)
Right, sorry, maybe my memory is deceiving me. I though sub-cneifion was more of a scramble whereas the arete a climb.
Ignore my advice, I'm sure the guidebook is correct
(You could walk up that way though and check it out on the way past)
In reply to Oujmik:
You are right. SCR is VDiff and while the angle is easy, the climbing is quite technical and thin for the grade. Good though and very escapable as blurty said.
I would recommend Dolmen Ridge. Bit of a contrived line but the climbing and the situations are brilliant.
You are right. SCR is VDiff and while the angle is easy, the climbing is quite technical and thin for the grade. Good though and very escapable as blurty said.
I would recommend Dolmen Ridge. Bit of a contrived line but the climbing and the situations are brilliant.
In reply to Oujmik:
Needle's eye arete on Foel Goch is another brilliant route (in my opinion). No difficult climbing moves but loads of exposure. It also seems to be a much quieter area than some of those you've mentioned so you can avoid the crowds.
Needle's eye arete on Foel Goch is another brilliant route (in my opinion). No difficult climbing moves but loads of exposure. It also seems to be a much quieter area than some of those you've mentioned so you can avoid the crowds.
In reply to Oujmik:
Cneifon arete is excellent and i suspect for most people just doing that on it's own makes for a great day out.
However, you could maybe tackle Ordinary route on Idwal Slabs then continue scrambling until you arrive at the entrance to cwm cneifion, then do the arete, much more rock involved and little change in overall difficulty.
Sub cneifion rib is definitely more difficult than the arete above. I once had to rescue not one but two leaders from this route (the 2nd leader had gone up to help the first one and became cragfast!!) Looking back at it now it was funny, but at the time it was anything but with real ground fall potential from about 20 metres up.
There's a really good scramble on Milestone, hardest moves are about diff. Starts on Pulpit route and finishes near Ordinary route. Then continue onto Milestone Continuation which is really good, from there aim for the North ridge of Tryfan.
The crack-lines on Tryfan Bach are a good place to practice.
Mark
Cneifon arete is excellent and i suspect for most people just doing that on it's own makes for a great day out.
However, you could maybe tackle Ordinary route on Idwal Slabs then continue scrambling until you arrive at the entrance to cwm cneifion, then do the arete, much more rock involved and little change in overall difficulty.
Sub cneifion rib is definitely more difficult than the arete above. I once had to rescue not one but two leaders from this route (the 2nd leader had gone up to help the first one and became cragfast!!) Looking back at it now it was funny, but at the time it was anything but with real ground fall potential from about 20 metres up.
There's a really good scramble on Milestone, hardest moves are about diff. Starts on Pulpit route and finishes near Ordinary route. Then continue onto Milestone Continuation which is really good, from there aim for the North ridge of Tryfan.
The crack-lines on Tryfan Bach are a good place to practice.
Mark
In reply to Oujmik:
A vote for East Gully Arete (Diff) on Glyder Fach which is a great day out at the grade you're looking at. The first pitch is the hardest (with one tricky move higher up the route - see the excellent description in Dan Bailey's book) but is well protected as I recall. There's a nice mountaineering feel to it as it's a long route, it ends near the summit, and you're likely to have it to yourself.
A vote for East Gully Arete (Diff) on Glyder Fach which is a great day out at the grade you're looking at. The first pitch is the hardest (with one tricky move higher up the route - see the excellent description in Dan Bailey's book) but is well protected as I recall. There's a nice mountaineering feel to it as it's a long route, it ends near the summit, and you're likely to have it to yourself.
In reply to davidbeynon:
Interesting you tip Carnedd Y Filiast as it's very close to where we're staying and we've pondered going up there a few times but some descriptions suggest the routes are rather (or very) light on protection. I guess the routes on the edge of the slab will throw up more options for gear placement though?
Interesting you tip Carnedd Y Filiast as it's very close to where we're staying and we've pondered going up there a few times but some descriptions suggest the routes are rather (or very) light on protection. I guess the routes on the edge of the slab will throw up more options for gear placement though?
In reply to Oujmik:
The issue with Left Edge it is that there aren't a huge number of belays, so you need to belay whenever you find a ledge of any kind. Actual protection is maybe a bit sparser than most vdiffs, but what there is tends to be very solid.
Technically it is low in the grade. Easy angled, with great friction.
The issue with Left Edge it is that there aren't a huge number of belays, so you need to belay whenever you find a ledge of any kind. Actual protection is maybe a bit sparser than most vdiffs, but what there is tends to be very solid.
Technically it is low in the grade. Easy angled, with great friction.
In reply to Oujmik:
There are some great suggestions but (at the risk of seeming a spoilsport), might I suggest a note of caution?
Bad conditions (wet rock, high winds, sleet, etc) can make routes dramatically harder. Being cold, just 'cos it's cold and/or being on a route for ages can make stuff seem harder. Being knackered (from being on a route for ages?) can make stuff seem harder. Being scared can make stuff seem harder.
Compound these factors - cold, wet rock, knackered, scared and maybe add in impending darkness and... can you see where this is heading? OK, that's your worst case scenario and a nice, dry sunny day when everything goes right is your best scenario. But you need to work from your worst scenario, not assume everything going right.
Your technical standard (Mod/Diff) doesn't allow anything up your sleeve if something goes wrong. What if you just get off-route and end up on a greasy polished Severe?
I'd stick to the easy routes on Tryfan Bach, for now. They're great. Although they're by the road, you feel in the mountains. Take as much time as you need but see how much time you take. How easy is it to find belays? How long does it take? What about your mates' skills/standards? Could they take over on a long route if you were injured?
Doing those easy routes will give you great experience. Do 'em again, if need be - but get experience under your belt. Then get a guide (say someone like Andy Newton in Llanberis) for a day or two. See what he thinks of your expertise. Do more challenging routes with him.
I'll not carry on. It's a never-ending process of learning. But what none of us wants to be is an accident statistic. And, sadly, Ogwen sees lots of accident statistics. Don't be one.
Mick
There are some great suggestions but (at the risk of seeming a spoilsport), might I suggest a note of caution?
Bad conditions (wet rock, high winds, sleet, etc) can make routes dramatically harder. Being cold, just 'cos it's cold and/or being on a route for ages can make stuff seem harder. Being knackered (from being on a route for ages?) can make stuff seem harder. Being scared can make stuff seem harder.
Compound these factors - cold, wet rock, knackered, scared and maybe add in impending darkness and... can you see where this is heading? OK, that's your worst case scenario and a nice, dry sunny day when everything goes right is your best scenario. But you need to work from your worst scenario, not assume everything going right.
Your technical standard (Mod/Diff) doesn't allow anything up your sleeve if something goes wrong. What if you just get off-route and end up on a greasy polished Severe?
I'd stick to the easy routes on Tryfan Bach, for now. They're great. Although they're by the road, you feel in the mountains. Take as much time as you need but see how much time you take. How easy is it to find belays? How long does it take? What about your mates' skills/standards? Could they take over on a long route if you were injured?
Doing those easy routes will give you great experience. Do 'em again, if need be - but get experience under your belt. Then get a guide (say someone like Andy Newton in Llanberis) for a day or two. See what he thinks of your expertise. Do more challenging routes with him.
I'll not carry on. It's a never-ending process of learning. But what none of us wants to be is an accident statistic. And, sadly, Ogwen sees lots of accident statistics. Don't be one.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
Thanks for the advice. Believe me, I'm a cautious person which is why I've stuck to low grades before. My technical standard probably isn't reflected by those grades but nevertheless your point stands,I don't have experience on harder ground to get us out of trouble. I've been contacted by a few guides as a result of this thread and we'll start with easier stuff and reappraise our goals as needed.we're not to proud to back off if it looks like we're biTing of too much.
Thanks for the advice. Believe me, I'm a cautious person which is why I've stuck to low grades before. My technical standard probably isn't reflected by those grades but nevertheless your point stands,I don't have experience on harder ground to get us out of trouble. I've been contacted by a few guides as a result of this thread and we'll start with easier stuff and reappraise our goals as needed.we're not to proud to back off if it looks like we're biTing of too much.
In reply to Oujmik:
Thank you for taking this in good heart. In no way do I want to put you off; quite the reverse, I want you to be around for decades to come to enjoy the hills. When everything goes right, it's great. But it's when everything goes wrong that it becomes a nightmare. That's when you need stuff in reserve - partly technical ability, more importantly know-how/expertise to get out of trouble. Often the latter isn't super-technical but with tiredness and stress, it can be easy to get it wrong.
Re backing off, if you have a bad feeling in your gut, always back off (or better still, back off before you start!)
Sorry to sound like your granny! I'll shut up now. But I want you and your mates to be around for many years to come so I can read about your exploits on here in my dotage.
Best wishes,
Mick
Thank you for taking this in good heart. In no way do I want to put you off; quite the reverse, I want you to be around for decades to come to enjoy the hills. When everything goes right, it's great. But it's when everything goes wrong that it becomes a nightmare. That's when you need stuff in reserve - partly technical ability, more importantly know-how/expertise to get out of trouble. Often the latter isn't super-technical but with tiredness and stress, it can be easy to get it wrong.
Re backing off, if you have a bad feeling in your gut, always back off (or better still, back off before you start!)
Sorry to sound like your granny! I'll shut up now. But I want you and your mates to be around for many years to come so I can read about your exploits on here in my dotage.
Best wishes,
Mick
In reply to Oujmik:
Theres a great little book called Scrambles and Easy Climbs in Snowdonia.
Has some great routes (to VS I think?)
Have a look at that...
Theres a great little book called Scrambles and Easy Climbs in Snowdonia.
Has some great routes (to VS I think?)
Have a look at that...
In reply to Oujmik:
http://www.markwalkermountaineering.co.uk/
You won't find a more patient and enthusiastic teacher than Mark
> Also, if anyone could recommend a good instructor/guide in the area I'd be open to spending a day getting some coaching on multi-pitch techniques so we can be safer and quicker subsequently.
http://www.markwalkermountaineering.co.uk/
You won't find a more patient and enthusiastic teacher than Mark
i'd stay away from Carnedd Y Filiast for now.
Routes have very little in the way of gear and belays are difficult.
stick to little tryfan for now, build up your confidence then move onto idwal/milestone.
Routes have very little in the way of gear and belays are difficult.
stick to little tryfan for now, build up your confidence then move onto idwal/milestone.
In reply to Oujmik:
I'd say that if you're after a day in the mountains, Cneifion Arete would be a great choice. It's basically about a pitch and a half of juggy and well-protected diff climbing with big friendly belay ledges, followed by a load of well positioned walking and scrambling.
Idwal Ordinary would probably also be fine. I thought that doing the descent scramble unroped felt a bit harder than leading the climb in big boots (the scrambling moves are easy but drop under you is serious if not oh-my-god vertiginous), but you've always got the option of roping up for it or abseiling off a spike.
The Sub-Cneifion Rib is definitely harder.
Tryfan Bach is a good place to practice if you want to get some mileage in without too much commitment, but it does feel like practice - the climbs are all basically 60m in a straight line up the slab or up a crack in the slab, all of which is visible from the ground. There's no real mountaineering vibe to it, if that's what you're after.
I'd say that if you're after a day in the mountains, Cneifion Arete would be a great choice. It's basically about a pitch and a half of juggy and well-protected diff climbing with big friendly belay ledges, followed by a load of well positioned walking and scrambling.
Idwal Ordinary would probably also be fine. I thought that doing the descent scramble unroped felt a bit harder than leading the climb in big boots (the scrambling moves are easy but drop under you is serious if not oh-my-god vertiginous), but you've always got the option of roping up for it or abseiling off a spike.
The Sub-Cneifion Rib is definitely harder.
Tryfan Bach is a good place to practice if you want to get some mileage in without too much commitment, but it does feel like practice - the climbs are all basically 60m in a straight line up the slab or up a crack in the slab, all of which is visible from the ground. There's no real mountaineering vibe to it, if that's what you're after.
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