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Following the premature demise of my Merrell Chameleons, I'm after a really rugged pair of approach shoes, that will stand up to trail, scree, scrambling and still last for several years. Any recommendations? Thanks.
In reply to bpmclimb:
5.10 camp four seem pretty tough. A bit clumpy, maybe as a consequence of their durability.
5.10 camp four seem pretty tough. A bit clumpy, maybe as a consequence of their durability.
In reply to bpmclimb:
I'm in the same position as you, my Chameleons have no grip left on the bottom and the uppers are shot. They've been relegated to gardening shoes.
My Camp 4s are great scrambling/summer walking shoes but the soles have pretty much worn down in a relatively quick period of time. The penalty of good grip I guess. They do feel quite clumpy, the heel box is pretty massive, designed IIRC for lots of jumaring up El Cap. However I've found them to be a good compromise and would consider another pair.
Having recently tried on some Salewa mountaineering boots I'm going to have a look at the Salewa Firetail. Don't fancy the Guide Tennie (dotty rubber sole will probably be poor on wet grass/mud)
I'd be interested to hear what you go for.
I'm in the same position as you, my Chameleons have no grip left on the bottom and the uppers are shot. They've been relegated to gardening shoes.
My Camp 4s are great scrambling/summer walking shoes but the soles have pretty much worn down in a relatively quick period of time. The penalty of good grip I guess. They do feel quite clumpy, the heel box is pretty massive, designed IIRC for lots of jumaring up El Cap. However I've found them to be a good compromise and would consider another pair.
Having recently tried on some Salewa mountaineering boots I'm going to have a look at the Salewa Firetail. Don't fancy the Guide Tennie (dotty rubber sole will probably be poor on wet grass/mud)
I'd be interested to hear what you go for.
In reply to thedatastream:
One issue for me is that I prefer not to buy leather, which increases my interest in the Guide Tennie Canvas. I wonder how hard-wearing the upper is.
One issue for me is that I prefer not to buy leather, which increases my interest in the Guide Tennie Canvas. I wonder how hard-wearing the upper is.
In reply to bpmclimb:
A shoe shop in the Dolomites told us that Scarpa Vitamins would outlast a 5:10 shoe. Silly name for a shoe, mind.
A shoe shop in the Dolomites told us that Scarpa Vitamins would outlast a 5:10 shoe. Silly name for a shoe, mind.
In reply to bpmclimb:
My La Sportiva Boulder X have had pretty intensive use for more than 2 years, with minimal wear to sole and uppers.
My La Sportiva Boulder X have had pretty intensive use for more than 2 years, with minimal wear to sole and uppers.
In reply to The New NickB:
Had 3 pairs of Ganda guides. All replaced under warranty as things kept falling off, but they are really good (until they break). Probably not the hardest wearing for general use as they are quite specialised.
Had 3 pairs of Ganda guides. All replaced under warranty as things kept falling off, but they are really good (until they break). Probably not the hardest wearing for general use as they are quite specialised.
In reply to bpmclimb:
If you want hard wearing, forget 5.10. Both my camp 4's and guide tennies were done within a year. I know the sort of usage you're thinking - don't even go there! Conversely, if you wan a technical approach shoe, my Sportiva explorers has been awesome. The sole is still going well after 2 years although I've tried not to wear them out and I've been somewhat slacker lately due to fatherhood. Can't recommend them enough though...
If you want hard wearing, forget 5.10. Both my camp 4's and guide tennies were done within a year. I know the sort of usage you're thinking - don't even go there! Conversely, if you wan a technical approach shoe, my Sportiva explorers has been awesome. The sole is still going well after 2 years although I've tried not to wear them out and I've been somewhat slacker lately due to fatherhood. Can't recommend them enough though...
In reply to bpmclimb:
A vote for the Camp Four. My first pair lasted several years with lots of punishment and more or less daily use. I bought a second pair recently and the quality seems to be the same.
A vote for the Camp Four. My first pair lasted several years with lots of punishment and more or less daily use. I bought a second pair recently and the quality seems to be the same.
In reply to bpmclimb:
I tend to live in approach shoes, and have tried a few:
Guide Tennie: lightweight and comfy, but sole wore very quickly, poor durability.
Scarpa Crux: pretty good all rounder, decent durability.
La Sportiva Boulder X: slightly more substantial and supportive, good durability, slightly odd lacing system, but overall my current favourite.
I tend to live in approach shoes, and have tried a few:
Guide Tennie: lightweight and comfy, but sole wore very quickly, poor durability.
Scarpa Crux: pretty good all rounder, decent durability.
La Sportiva Boulder X: slightly more substantial and supportive, good durability, slightly odd lacing system, but overall my current favourite.
In reply to bpmclimb:
I´m also looking for a new pair of approach shoes and have narrow it down to either new Scarpa Zen pro or Dolomite Steinbock gtx. Dolomite model is really intersting, with its repIaceable climbing zone.
I´m also looking for a new pair of approach shoes and have narrow it down to either new Scarpa Zen pro or Dolomite Steinbock gtx. Dolomite model is really intersting, with its repIaceable climbing zone.
In reply to Turdus torquatus:
+1
To the OP: "really tough" and "prefer not to buy leather" are, unfortunately, rather contradictory requirements.
> 5.10 camp four seem pretty tough. A bit clumpy, maybe as a consequence of their durability.
+1
To the OP: "really tough" and "prefer not to buy leather" are, unfortunately, rather contradictory requirements.
In reply to bpmclimb:
Another bite for boulder x,
I worn mine solid for a couple of years and only retired them lately because; while unblocking a drain , they literally got covered in poo.
Another bite for boulder x,
I worn mine solid for a couple of years and only retired them lately because; while unblocking a drain , they literally got covered in poo.
In reply to bpmclimb:
the scarpa zen are brilliant got my first 2 pairs in sales and am now considering paying full price for my 3rd pair.
quite like my inovate fell shoes as well, v light.
the scarpa zen are brilliant got my first 2 pairs in sales and am now considering paying full price for my 3rd pair.
quite like my inovate fell shoes as well, v light.
In reply to AlanLittle:
I'm not so sure about this (although you may be right up to a point). I hadn't heard that modern synthetic full-spec mountain boots wear much faster than their leather counterparts, and the (synthetic) Anasazi velcro rock shoes I always buy these days seem to wear at least as well as the leather shoes I've had in the past. I can't think why it would be different for approach shoes.
> To the OP: "really tough" and "prefer not to buy leather" are, unfortunately, rather contradictory requirements.
I'm not so sure about this (although you may be right up to a point). I hadn't heard that modern synthetic full-spec mountain boots wear much faster than their leather counterparts, and the (synthetic) Anasazi velcro rock shoes I always buy these days seem to wear at least as well as the leather shoes I've had in the past. I can't think why it would be different for approach shoes.
In reply to alasdair19:
Inov8 are really not known for durability.
> quite like my inovate fell shoes as well, v light.
Inov8 are really not known for durability.
In reply to The New NickB:
second that - some amazingly sticky soles for wet loose steep rock/grass but i don't like uppers
> Inov8 are really not known for durability.
second that - some amazingly sticky soles for wet loose steep rock/grass but i don't like uppers
In reply to bpmclimb:
I've had these now for coming on two years http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4904 I've done lots of approaches and summer hiking in them but they also get used most days as just my normal trainers. They have lasted really well. I will wear the soles away on a pair of trainers over just two summers use but the Evolv ones are still going strong. Don't know if you'll find that specific model now, but Rock and Run were selling of the Bolt - the Capitan's little brother! - quite cheap last week. I very nearly bought myself a pair based on how happy I've been with the Capitan.
I've had these now for coming on two years http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4904 I've done lots of approaches and summer hiking in them but they also get used most days as just my normal trainers. They have lasted really well. I will wear the soles away on a pair of trainers over just two summers use but the Evolv ones are still going strong. Don't know if you'll find that specific model now, but Rock and Run were selling of the Bolt - the Capitan's little brother! - quite cheap last week. I very nearly bought myself a pair based on how happy I've been with the Capitan.
In reply to bpmclimb:
I haven't tried Toby's Capitan's and I agree that a leather upper can be pretty waterproof. They look good.
After trying several models over the years I haven't found anything to beat these for proper mountain use:
http://www.scarpa.co.uk/approach/vortex-xcr/
They are superbly comfortable and completely watertight. And they remain so after two years of slogging around the Cuillin.
I have a pair of Guide Tennies as well and they beat the Scarpas for smearing and grip, but the complete lack of waterproofing restricts them to dry days (and dry ground) only.
I haven't tried Toby's Capitan's and I agree that a leather upper can be pretty waterproof. They look good.
After trying several models over the years I haven't found anything to beat these for proper mountain use:
http://www.scarpa.co.uk/approach/vortex-xcr/
They are superbly comfortable and completely watertight. And they remain so after two years of slogging around the Cuillin.
I have a pair of Guide Tennies as well and they beat the Scarpas for smearing and grip, but the complete lack of waterproofing restricts them to dry days (and dry ground) only.
Post edited at 07:03
In reply to bpmclimb:
Fair enough, although I have heard precisely that. Lighter, warmer, but less durability as the trade-off.
(My current mountain boots are Scarpa Triolets. I chose them over Trango Evos, Rebels etc. not because of durability but because they fit me better and for that I was willing to put up with a little bit of extra weight.)
> I hadn't heard that modern synthetic full-spec mountain boots wear much faster than their leather counterparts
Fair enough, although I have heard precisely that. Lighter, warmer, but less durability as the trade-off.
(My current mountain boots are Scarpa Triolets. I chose them over Trango Evos, Rebels etc. not because of durability but because they fit me better and for that I was willing to put up with a little bit of extra weight.)
In reply to bpmclimb:
I had a pair of Asolo Contour approach shoes that lasted for 5 years. I eventually put them in the bin a couple of months ago. The uppers looked like they had only seen 6 months use but the sole had worn through. Great value though to get 5 years use. Would buy another pair if I could find them, sadly discontinued.
I had a pair of Asolo Contour approach shoes that lasted for 5 years. I eventually put them in the bin a couple of months ago. The uppers looked like they had only seen 6 months use but the sole had worn through. Great value though to get 5 years use. Would buy another pair if I could find them, sadly discontinued.
In reply to BnB:
I'll second that with the vortex.
Don't buy the salewa firetail GTX, they are the one I have now, worst buy ever.
I'll second that with the vortex.
Don't buy the salewa firetail GTX, they are the one I have now, worst buy ever.
In reply to TMM:
I've had a pair of 'Boulder' from Millet (the French company, not the UK shop) for several years now which have lasted well for a mix of walking in the lowlands and in the Alps, Pyrenees & Massif Central, they were a little stiffer than usual but good for scrambling/easy climbing. The soles (Vibram I think) are now getting pretty worn but the uppers are still in good shape. Unfortunately they don't make them any more
In the past I've had approach shoes from North Face & Salomon which wore out in one summer.
I've had a pair of 'Boulder' from Millet (the French company, not the UK shop) for several years now which have lasted well for a mix of walking in the lowlands and in the Alps, Pyrenees & Massif Central, they were a little stiffer than usual but good for scrambling/easy climbing. The soles (Vibram I think) are now getting pretty worn but the uppers are still in good shape. Unfortunately they don't make them any more
In the past I've had approach shoes from North Face & Salomon which wore out in one summer.
In reply to bpmclimb:
I think the main problem you will have is that prove durability we will have had to have owned the shoes for two years or more, by which stage they have probably been discontinued.
I think the main problem you will have is that prove durability we will have had to have owned the shoes for two years or more, by which stage they have probably been discontinued.
In reply to bpmclimb:
I am in the same predicament looking to get a pair of approach shoes that I can do easy climbs in... I currently wear Mammut Redburn
I narrowed it down to the
Mammut Redburn
Scarpa Crux
la Sportiva
After extensive research I decided to go with the La Sportiva.
But, I also just bought a pair of Evolve Cruzer which are on sale at Tisos
E
I am in the same predicament looking to get a pair of approach shoes that I can do easy climbs in... I currently wear Mammut Redburn
I narrowed it down to the
Mammut Redburn
Scarpa Crux
la Sportiva
After extensive research I decided to go with the La Sportiva.
But, I also just bought a pair of Evolve Cruzer which are on sale at Tisos
E
In reply to bpmclimb:
I've just bought a pair of these....
http://www.salewa.com/index.php/product/alpine+approach/ms+mtn+trainer-1
Whilst I couldn't possibly comment on the durability until I've done a fair few miles in them, they seem extremely well put together and rather sturdy... Comfy straight out of the box, with a waterproof liner to boot...will see how these fair...
I've just bought a pair of these....
http://www.salewa.com/index.php/product/alpine+approach/ms+mtn+trainer-1
Whilst I couldn't possibly comment on the durability until I've done a fair few miles in them, they seem extremely well put together and rather sturdy... Comfy straight out of the box, with a waterproof liner to boot...will see how these fair...
In reply to thedatastream:
Salewa Firetails are great, strong and grip well, I also have a pair of Salewa Mountain Trainers. A bit more clumpy (is that a word?) and better for wetter conditions. I have used the Mountain Trainer in a vast range of conditions and they have gripped and kept my feet warm and dry.
The main problem with approach shoes is that many are designed for the US market with hot dry conditions in mind. Something that the UK martket does not see to much of. Which is why most 5:10 Guide Tennie owners have mud over the seat of their trousers as soon as there is a hint of moisture in the air as you will skid on your arse.
This is why Salewa and to a degree La Sportiva are more suited to UK as they are slightly more geared towards the average European climate and not some idealist view of endless dry sunny days that the US seems to want to believe in.
Salewa Firetails are great, strong and grip well, I also have a pair of Salewa Mountain Trainers. A bit more clumpy (is that a word?) and better for wetter conditions. I have used the Mountain Trainer in a vast range of conditions and they have gripped and kept my feet warm and dry.
The main problem with approach shoes is that many are designed for the US market with hot dry conditions in mind. Something that the UK martket does not see to much of. Which is why most 5:10 Guide Tennie owners have mud over the seat of their trousers as soon as there is a hint of moisture in the air as you will skid on your arse.
This is why Salewa and to a degree La Sportiva are more suited to UK as they are slightly more geared towards the average European climate and not some idealist view of endless dry sunny days that the US seems to want to believe in.
In reply to bpmclimb:
Although I agree some Merrells wear down quickly, I also have an old pair (model unknown) which seem indestructible. Quite heavy, a stiff sole with a distinct camber. Great for walking on rough stoney ground or MTBing with flatties. Heel-cup is a bit deep, but that's probably just me. Point is: Don't discount Merrells. Certainly have outlasted son's CampFours several times over!
I think the issue with leather vs. man-made fabrics is that fiber-based fabrics can be hard-wearing, but then they also tend to be still and unforgiving (thick fibers). OK for big boots, but less attractive for lightweight footwear. Thin fibers give flexibility but aren't very strong. Good quality leather (doesn't rely on individual fibers) seems hard to beat if you want flexibility (comfort) and toughness (resistance to ripping on rocks).
Although I agree some Merrells wear down quickly, I also have an old pair (model unknown) which seem indestructible. Quite heavy, a stiff sole with a distinct camber. Great for walking on rough stoney ground or MTBing with flatties. Heel-cup is a bit deep, but that's probably just me. Point is: Don't discount Merrells. Certainly have outlasted son's CampFours several times over!
I think the issue with leather vs. man-made fabrics is that fiber-based fabrics can be hard-wearing, but then they also tend to be still and unforgiving (thick fibers). OK for big boots, but less attractive for lightweight footwear. Thin fibers give flexibility but aren't very strong. Good quality leather (doesn't rely on individual fibers) seems hard to beat if you want flexibility (comfort) and toughness (resistance to ripping on rocks).
In reply to roy_d:
I like the look of the Mountain Trainer. That would fit the bill of being more heavy duty than my Inov8s but not as big as my fat walking boots. Cheers for the tip, will get some to try
> Salewa Firetails are great, strong and grip well, I also have a pair of Salewa Mountain Trainers. A bit more clumpy (is that a word?) and better for wetter conditions. I have used the Mountain Trainer in a vast range of conditions and they have gripped and kept my feet warm and dry.
I like the look of the Mountain Trainer. That would fit the bill of being more heavy duty than my Inov8s but not as big as my fat walking boots. Cheers for the tip, will get some to try
In reply to bpmclimb:
cant quite believe the folk who get enthusiastic about shoes,most of them are overpriced ,just buy some cheap plimmies and try a differerent approach..
cant quite believe the folk who get enthusiastic about shoes,most of them are overpriced ,just buy some cheap plimmies and try a differerent approach..
In reply to victorclimber:
Thanks for the suggestion, but as I said in the OP, I'm after something that will last longer than my Merrells did, not fall apart even more quickly!
> just buy some cheap plimmies and try a differerent approach..
Thanks for the suggestion, but as I said in the OP, I'm after something that will last longer than my Merrells did, not fall apart even more quickly!
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