/ At least 9 dead on Everest

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Indy - on 18 Apr 2014
An avalanche hit local guides fixing ropes. It appears no climbers were involved. Hope the families involved are taken care of.

Sad day
Offwidth - on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to Indy:

Helpful folk, improving a walk, those rope fixers eh? I wonder sometimes what will it take for some people to start regarding the local guides as climbers. Terrible terrible news.
Mowglee on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Absolutely. The Sherpa guides are far more qualified to be described as climbers than the majority of their clients. It is a continuing travesty that they are so overlooked, and in many cases poorly treated. Tragic day.
radson - on 18 Apr 2014
Who doesn't regard the sherpas on the route as climbers??
Fultonius - on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to radson: The OP?

Gordon Stainforth - on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Yes, it's the Sherpas who are the real climbers, and those who take most of the risk, especially fixing ropes at the beginning of the season. A ghastly tragedy.
radson - on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to Fultonius:

good call
butteredfrog - on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to Indy:

BBC now reporting 12 dead and 3 missing.
Indy - on 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Fultonius:

> The OP?

Apologies I would have thought that it was obvious that being high up on Everest you'd be a climber.
dpm23 - on 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Indy:

I wouldn't worry about it. Most people who have even the most basic understanding of what happens on Everest may well consider someone being referred to as a 'guide' to be an elevation in status to that of 'climber'.
ex0 - on 19 Apr 2014
ZEbbEDY on 20 Apr 2014
malk - on 21 Apr 2014
In reply to Indy:
some discussion here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2389747
Post edited at 12:57
Fultonius - on 21 Apr 2014
In reply to Indy: I wouldn't call most of the rich idiots up there "climbers". If you're being dragged by a guide up fixed ropes laid out by the Sherpas, you're not really climbing.

Anyway, for me, the Sherpas are the real hard folks up there. I think they are put at too much risk by the merry-go-round of the rich and ambitious...
malk - on 21 Apr 2014
In reply to Fultonius:

however, 'the Nepal's SPCC dictated the ice fall route this year' and 'Unhappy with the conditions/route last year, Himalayan Experience pulled it's XPD very early into the season'
Fultonius - on 21 Apr 2014
In reply to malk: I'm not quite sure what your quotes are trying to say?

malk - on 21 Apr 2014
In reply to Fultonius:

open to interpretation..
i guess your average Sherpa doesn't have much say on the route through the icefalls?
Gordon Stainforth - on 21 Apr 2014
In reply to malk:

These were reported to be Sherpas setting up the fixed ropes/ladders etc. Not 'your average Sherpa' by any means: all very skilled and superfit climbers. Anyhow, there's no such thing as an 'average Sherpa': most of the ones I've met are far above average as human beings in every possible way, and put most westerners to shame. Amongst the greatest people I've ever met.
redsonja - on 22 Apr 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I would agree with you Gordon. the sherpas I have met are the most kindest, humblest, strongest people imaginable. words cant do them justice. certainly not "average" anyway
malk - on 22 Apr 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

you are right by all accounts, but my post was meant to highlight the possible route selection issue up the icefall..
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Damo on 23 Apr 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Anyhow, there's no such thing as an 'average Sherpa': most of the ones I've met are far above average as human beings in every possible way, and put most westerners to shame. Amongst the greatest people I've ever met.

I know you mean well Gordon but that kind of ethnic stereotyping is never fair, even when it's positive as in your case here. I know you mentioned it was based on your personal experience, but extrapolation is dangerous - there are asshole Sherpas, thieving Sherpas, lying Sherpas and every other strand of Sherpa - just like every other human being.

Romanticising them as a group apart is, I believe, intrinsic in many of the issues that have arisen in the last few years - last season's 'fight' and now this tragedy. They are not otherworldly supermen to be conveniently exploited for western businesses, our holidays and charity challenges. They are people, with families, fears and flaws just like the rest of us.

Have a read of this much more intimate alternative perspective: http://whathasgood.com/2014/04/23/three-springs/
Gordon Stainforth - on 23 Apr 2014
In reply to Damo:

All the ones I met on commercial climbing expeditions seemed of a very high calibre of person indeed, without exception. Pretty cool outside of climbing too - but I wasn't talking about that. Yes, generalising is dangerous, but there seems to be a rather low percentage of arseholes compared with many of the western trekkers, for example.
Damo on 24 Apr 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Have a read of this Gordon:
http://keswick-bed-and-breakfast.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/intimidation-lies-and-deceit-on-everest.htm...

"And then came the threats … insidious threats that have completely changed the nature of the demands and the situation. ...Sherpas are being told that if they go on the hill, well, ‘we know where you live.’ Sherpas are turning against Sherpas and in this country where these threats are sometimes carried out they are taken very, very seriously...

And it’s not just our team of Sherpas who have been threatened. As a consequence of all these factors combined a number of teams announced yesterday that they are withdrawing from the hill. They have published statements with reasons for leaving, but we know that at least one of the larger teams have actually been threatened from a number of angles.

For a while it seemed that the Sherpa led teams were going to be allowed to stay and perhaps this was going to be the start of the new order that some Sherpas have been looking towards for years – Sherpa led expeditions with no Western Leaders involved. It would be the perfect season to see everyone else off the hill by threat and intimidation and leave their own Sherpa led teams and local companies to work the hill and summit, or not."
BarrySW19 on 24 Apr 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I don't have any personal experience, but having seen the video footage of around 50 Sherpas attacking Simone Moro while he was on his knees apologising to them didn't make them look like anyone I'd like to meet anytime soon.
r0x0r.wolfo - on 24 Apr 2014
In reply to Indy:


"Who knows what is the right timescale to start considering going, let alone stepping, back on to the mountain. If there had been fewer Sherpas involved would 4 days have been right? Maybe 2 days? Perhaps a week? "

"But Shepras who have not returned, or are unwilling to work, may be in for a short sharp shock when they don’t get paid. If you or I were to go on strike we wouldn’t get paid - they may learn the hard way."

The man's probably got 50 grand on the line. No doubt he's kicking up a fuss. Those who are campaigning for better work conditions are the 'militant wing'. There's bigger things going on than his f*cking holiday. This is the kind of guy who'd leave you for dead, all that matters is him getting to the summit, he's bought his ticket, nevermind the dead, get back to work already!

Fergal - on 24 Apr 2014
In reply to r0x0r.wolfo:

Yep comes across as a disgruntled right wing bigot dealing with a trade union dispute, he can not see that it is a situation of his own making, commercial expeditions are the root cause.
Martin W on 24 Apr 2014
In reply to Fergal: Ironically, that blog post includes the sentence: How can we, as a team, justify putting our Sherpas at risk? What he's talking about there is the risk of reprisal attacks against Sherpas who decide to work on the mountain this season. Pity he didn't have that exact thought earlier, in the context of paying for a bunch of Sherpas to go set up the route through the icefall.

In reply to BarrySW19:

> ...having seen the video footage of around 50 Sherpas attacking Simone Moro while he was on his knees apologising to them didn't make them look like anyone I'd like to meet anytime soon.

Which just goes to show the dangers inherent in making any kind of sweeping generalisations about a group of people. Some of them - quite possibly the overwhelming majority - will be nice people, but there's always a chance that the odd one or two will be @rseholes, and an further risk that in certain situations their @rseholery will appear to their compatriots to be the correct behaviour.
Antigua - on 24 Apr 2014
In reply to Fergal:

Is there a primer on this that sets out the facts and leaves politics out of it?

The Govt. position, the Sherpa and that of the commercial companies?
Post edited at 17:35

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