/ Bolting the Gritstone?!

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John Gale - on 07 May 2014
I have spotted that a bolt has been drilled into one of the rock faces of Heptonstall Quarry. I have contacted the BMC who will "call me back" shortly, this is hideous behaviour and totally against the gritstone ethics. It will be removed shortly and any further bolts at Heptonstall will be removed immediately. Incidentally there was a large rock fall from between the lines "Thin Red Line" and "Demerara" last week...this adds further to the argument that this is not the cragg to be attacking with industrial drills and metal work. unacceptable in my view and this should be stopped immediately.
Bob on 07 May 2014
In reply to John Gale:

Was the bolt in a position where it was obviously just for climbing rather than someone, possibly non-climber, "practicing"? If so then I'd like to tag this behaviour as "middle part of the wedge".
John Gale - on 07 May 2014
In reply to Bob:

the bolt is near the top of the cragg but would require abseiling in to clip it for practice and the same practice could be achieved with the BMC placed stakes at the top and a rope protector, in my opinion (and I am no expert) It has been placed there to protect the last moves over the ceiling of the last great climb
Hardonicus - on 07 May 2014
In reply to John Gale: It's fine - we need more mid grade sports routes.
Bulls Crack - on 08 May 2014
In reply to John Gale:

What a strange place to put a bolt - grit quarry aside. Obviously not for leading since there's big gear a metre to the right. It could be used for working said unclimbed route if it were to finish that way..but there's a stake just over the top. very odd.
Frank the Husky - on 08 May 2014
In reply to John Gale: Interesting, but hardly "hideous behaviour". Rockfalls in quarries (or natural crags) are not a coherent reason not to put bolts in.


SCrossley on 08 May 2014
In reply to John Gale:

> It will be removed shortly and any further bolts at Heptonstall will be removed immediately.

What if the bolt was put there with the permission of the quarry owner, or even by the quarry owner?
I would suggest you leave this to the BMC access rep and area committee to sort out.
The Pylon King on 08 May 2014
In reply to John Gale:

probably slackliners.
Rob Dyer, BMC - on 08 May 2014
In reply to John Gale:

Hi John,

I've tried returning your call on the number I've been given but it won't connect for some reason. Could you call me in the office on 01614 383309 if you still want to talk this through?

Cheers
Rob Dyer
BMC Access & Conservation Officer
samparsons on 22 May 2014
In reply to John Gale:

I am a sport climber and i am not here to start an a fight at all but i dont understand why these routes cant be bolted? You dont have to use them and just means more people can enjoy these areas you love so much. Maybe i would understand if i also did trad?
999thAndy on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

The normal thing for trolls is to start their own threads.

climbwhenready - on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

Yeah, so we just did this?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=586872
Ramblin dave - on 22 May 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

Copy-paste my reply from that thread:

"The main thing that bolts remove from the trad experience is the element of commitment, and the importance of the decisions that you're taking. Deciding to start up a trad route near your limit is accepting a certain level of risk and taking a step into the unknown, particularly if the route is badly protected or you can't see how well protected it is. You might also be slimming down your rack and not bothering with some of the gear - gambling that the small chance of it coming in handy isn't worth the extra weight you're carrying. Having to think seriously about all these decisions makes for an immensely satisfying and memorable experience when you go for it and it works and you make it up.

Having bolts on the route - even if you intend to place gear instead of clipping them - removes most of the significance from the decision, since you know you've got an easy bailout option if you want it, and correspondingly detracts from the satisfaction.

Essentially, climbing on bolts rather than gear is like playing poker for matchsticks rather than money - it can be fun, but it's a totally different experience. Attempting a bolted line on trad gear is like playing for money but everyone being allowed to switch to matchsticks and get their original stake back if they start losing."
samparsons on 22 May 2014
In reply to Ramblin dave:

I understand that and i respect that but it is down to the climber, and i still dont feel thats a reason to stop sport climbers climbing some of these super cool routes. I also understand this is just personal preference and this will never be answered and sorted just a shame really.
Shani - on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:
> (In reply to Ramblin dave)
>
> I understand that and i respect that but it is down to the climber, and i still dont feel thats a reason to stop sport climbers climbing some of these super cool routes. I also understand this is just personal preference and this will never be answered and sorted just a shame really.

"We're gonna need a bigger bridge."
Karl Wooffindin - on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

They're only super cool 'cos it is on trad.

Ps. Get back under the bridge.
lowersharpnose - on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

Fool or a knave?
Ramblin dave - on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

> I understand that and i respect that but it is down to the climber, and i still dont feel thats a reason to stop sport climbers climbing some of these super cool routes.

Noone's stopping anyone from climbing anything.

http://bouldersuk.com/climbing-shop/dmm-trad-starter-pack

Knock yourself out! (Figuratively speaking.)
CurlyStevo - on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

You can just top rope the routes if you don't want to do trad.
Shani - on 22 May 2014
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to samparsons)
>
> You can just top rope the routes if you don't want to do trad.

This should be the approach on most bolted limestone as well (as far as practical).
Jon Stewart - on 22 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

To summarise the much of what has been said a million times, if a trad route is bolted, then it has been destroyed (see other thread for more explanation). You don't go around destroying the things that people love, it isn't nice.
samparsons on 24 May 2014
'You don't go around destroying the things that people love, it isn't nice.'

'It will be removed shortly and any further bolts at Heptonstall will be removed immediately'

I think its sad that this kind of topic has such an attitude, just think its unnecessarily as all we ALL want to do is go out for a climb in the nice fresh air with your mates but some politics have come in and stopped the freedom a bit. Sad
Duncan Bourne - on 24 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:

> I am a sport climber and i am not here to start an a fight at all but i dont understand why these routes cant be bolted? You dont have to use them and just means more people can enjoy these areas you love so much. Maybe i would understand if i also did trad?

I think you would.
Instead of asking for more bolts why not give trad a go. I think you will get a different view of the situation
gdnknf on 24 May 2014
In reply to samparsons:
I came to climbing from the world of surfing. Surfing is and always will be my first love. Ethics can be strong in all activities, including surfing.

Who owns the sea? Who owns a wave? Is any one style of surfing (long boarding, short boarding, SUP) better than another?

The point is, nobody owns anything. Nobody is more entitled to anything than anyone else. Nobody is better or more important than anybody else (ever).

However, ethics exist; in surfing: you don't drop in on someone, you don't steal waves, you don't litter the beach; like they do in climbing: you don't hog routes, you don't chip holds, you take your rubbish home.

They are all common sense principles applied to enhance everyone's enjoyment; enhance our own without spoiling others.

If a large group of people object to having a gritstone crag bolted, then, morally, you shouldn't bolt it. If you can't ride that wave in good style, nobody is stopping you going to another wave. I'm not saying you CAN'T do these things, I'm just saying that if you knowingly drop in on some one and get a kicking on the beach, it's definitely your fault.

It's good that discussions like this happen, so we all know where we stand and how we can all enjoy our passion without unnecessarily upsetting our friends.

--

Glencoe, Snowdonia, The Lakes, Pembroke, Peak and Northern Grit... some of the best trad climbing in the world. It's in our country! We should be respectful, even proud of that. Heck, some reckon that 'climbing' was BORN here.

Now sport climbing... Ceuse, Kalymnos, Catalunya, Arco... yum! Where's my passport?
Post edited at 14:43

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