UKC

Looking through the "what's on the market at the moment" and considering the Beal Ice Line as a super-lightweight scrambling/short-pitching rope, I was wondering if anyone had any experience of belaying 8.1mm halves with a high friction device such as the ATC XP? It's right at the bottom range of what they recommend (8-11mm).

In reply to climbwhenready:

Using them as halves then it´s sort-of o.k and there isn´t a lot of alternative anyway, single strand I wouldn´t. I´d get a Buggette for a conventional plate or an Alpine Smart myself.

In reply to climbwhenready:

I have 8mm ropes and use a Reverso 4 generally. Held plenty of falls with that setup happily and my mate weighs almost 13st some weeks.

In reply to climbwhenready:

I personally think that something like the Edelrid MegaJul (or even MiniJul), with assisted locking, is the way to go with skinny ropes.

In reply to climbwhenready:

I use 8.5mm twins through an XP Pro. I think with 8.1mm belaying would be fine, but if you're doing any abseiling then a) definitely use a backup prussic or similar, and b) try it on something short as a test.

I've usually not backed up abseils at the crag, and been fine, but abseiling on twin 8.5mm with the XP Pro on a 50m abseil, slightly overhanging, made me realise that I was being dumb. I also abseil on a doubled BD 9.8mm single and the difference is significant.

In reply to climbwhenready:

I constantly climb with my Edelrid Merlin 8mm half ropes using my old and battered Wild Country VC Pro, and they belay and catch falls perfectly fine. They also work beautifully with the device when abseiling off multipitch routes etc. (I don't feel the need for a prusik back up)

In reply to climbwhenready:
I think the xp guide isn't as nice to use but does have more friction over the standard xp (the cleats are a different shape). Id be fine using the guide with 8mm ropes but not the standard xp. The buggette is ideal in summer especially when the ropes are new (and not furry) but be wary of using these plates in winter as they can have a tendency to not work if the ropes get iced up.

In reply to jimtitt:


Half ropes are often used in a way where a single strand will hold the fall so I dont buy that. It's different if you are using them as twins IMO.

In reply to climbwhenready:

OK, if I go that way I might couple it with a bugette. Sounds like it is at the edge of what's advisable, and I want to leave the option open for a single strand emergency abseil.

In reply to Coel Hellier:
I bought a Mega Jul recently, because Edelrid Apus 7.8's seem to be very much in fashion among my climbing partners. I'm a bit concerned about impact forces on marginal gear, but that's a trade off against having some chance of being able to hold high factor falls at all.

In reply to AlanLittle:


As I understand it, a lower impact force is not so much about the rope slipping through the plate, more about movement of the belayer and other give in the system (tightening knots etc).

In reply to Coel Hellier:

They all play a role including rope slippage. On multi-pitch belays you often have the belayer rather more firmly tied down than you do for single pitch sport belaying, and you don't always have much choice in the matter.

There are studies showing that GriGris generate higher impact forces than ATCs - other things being equal. My subjective impression is that a Mega Jul bites at least as hard a a GriGri but I haven't seen any measurements.

In reply to climbwhenready:

YMMV but an Iceline would not be my first choice for that use.

On the plus side Icelines are surprisingly hard-wearing for their diameter/weight with a 41% sheath percentage and the latest versions feature Beal Unicore technology.

However Iceline are very close to the UIAA/CE limits for both static elongation (11.5% vs 12%) and dynamic elongation (37% vs 40%). I would not necessarily consider that to be particularly desirable for scrambling unlike ice climbing where the low impact force (which is the direct corollary of the high elongation) is arguably very desirable.

Additionally, an Iceline only holds 6-7 UIAA/CE test falls compared with something like the new Mammut Serenity 8.7mm which holds 17-18. That is a massive difference in the potential safety margin compared with a relatively small increase in weight.

As regards belaying, the last time I used Icelines in the Alps I didn't have any concerns or issues with the Reverso 4 I used. Although for scrambling etc. I'd probably tend towards Italian hitches and/or a DMM Buggette.

In reply to Damo:
Adding a second biner to you,re rap makes a positive difference