UKC

Hi all,

I have recently experienced leading outdoors using trad gear and have got the climbing bug for it! I am starting to build up my own rack but would really like some advice or thoughts on using different brands of gear i.e. should I mix them.

I currently have one full set of Black Diamond nuts and will be considering buying another set in the near future, once I have lead a few more routes. The question is do I stick with Black Diamond nuts or shall I get a different set such as DMM or Wild Country?

The same applies for cams is it better to mix and match or stick with one specific brand?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Sarah

In reply to sazbomb:

I believe that the nuts and cams produced by DMM and WC are now 'compatible" which would be a plus. i.e the anodising colour is the same.

In reply to sazbomb:

In my opinion, I would get a different set of nuts as all makes are slightly different and have there own advantages in different cracks. ie the more different pieces of pro you have you will always have the best for that crack.

With regards to cams if you have 1 set of cams I would stick to the same type as they would cover the entire range. I have 0-3 in half sizes. if you then want to double up I would go for a different brand as each brand will be slightly different and fit in different places.

Hugh

In reply to sazbomb:

Get a set of DMM or Wild Country nuts, both are excellent so it doesn't matter too much either way.

In reply to sazbomb:

I also was given the advice - double up on your nuts but with different brands.

like DMM wallnuts and WC rocks. colours will match and give maximum scope fore placement.

In reply to sazbomb:

Different view - complement your BD nuts with a set of offsets.

Thanks so much for all the feedback, that really helps me out a lot. I wish I had I asked this question now before I purchased the BD nuts but I will see how I get on with them and another set.

In reply to: nickinscottishmountains

This is going to show how inexperienced I am, but I haven't yet used offsets before, do you find they have a better placement in cracks than nuts because of their shape? or just offer that bit more variety to choose from depending on the crack?

In reply to sazbomb:

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/which_nuts_to_buy

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/racking_your_nuts


when it comes to cams I think it depends a lot on what you will be mostly climbing on.

I have a couple of dragons - expensive but nice and the rest 4CU's.

No micro cams as the level I climb at doesn't justify it…. yet

In reply to Stevie989:

I bought two full sets of HB cams based on the expansion range and price. If I was in the market for new cams I'd use other peoples and see which you get on with or prefer.

In reply to sazbomb:

I have an old HB Wales 1 cam like a 4CU - god knows how old it is but its bomber.

In reply to sazbomb:
In trad quickdraws are better thought of as "extenders" and take on a different role. Drag becomes a major issue, especially on lower grades. I find sewn in crabs a pain with routine spinning to avoid gates against rock or doubling up for extra length involving far too much thinking & hanging around.
I'd buy 2 or 3 60cm open loops cos you'll find a need to double extend quite often. 120cm thin slings reduced by the wee clever trick of tripling them are also really good idea. I used to take the mick out of my mountaineering mate & all his 240cm slings but not only do they reduce drag but threads & spikes are by far the simplest, quickest & often best runners you can get. I take two 480cm for setting up Y hangs as my favoured anchor for speedy changeovers.
Double spindled cams cover a bigger range so fewer will cover full size range which is a bigger priority unless you're focusing on crack climbing. I personally would never worry about mixing cam manufacturers & agree every different piece has its own qualities; just take the time to learn to love them
Rationalise for venues of course; Stanage rack should be different to Snowdonia.

In reply to sazbomb:

DMM do a good trad starter kit containing a set of torque nuts, wall nuts and offsets. That would get you going and is cheaper than buying them separately.

http://www.v12outdoor.com/product.php/6499/dmm-starter-nut-set-3?gclid=CNbd...

You can then think about cams once you have the fundamentals nailed down

In reply to sazbomb:

I'd second some of what has been said in that it pays to have two sets of different type nuts. The choice of nuts is oft debated. Personally I make it simple for myself and have a set of the two most popular ie. WC Rocks and DMM Wallnuts. In fact I've just replaced some as they must have been around 10 years old and pretty knackered. Certainly stick with your BD nuts but get a s second different set.

One thing I would say is that many gear placements on v popular routes are worn to nut shapes and these tend to fit the most popular nut shapes i.e. Rocks and Wallnuts. As your BD nuts are not the most popular, I'd get a set of Rocks or Wallnuts as your 2nd set. My preference is for DMM Wallnuts as they tend to seat better (with the penalty that sometimes they are a bit harder to remove).

With cams, I wouldn't mix and match too much. For your main set, use one make if you can. All the sizes are a bit different between manufacturers and you want cams that are are in slightly overlapping sizes (which a manufacturer will do for you if you buy that set). However, a lot of people use a different make for their micro cams. Don't bother with micro cams too early on though; you'll probably know when you need them.

This is great hearing what gear you all prefer and recommend, and thanks to all who sent the links.

Luckily I haven't yet used my BD nuts as I only bought them last week, so I should be able to return them and go for a set of the DMM and WC, as after reading all your comments it seems these are the most popular and I had no idea they were compatible with each other so that's a big pro! Thanks Skyfall for the tip about most popular crags being worn to specific nut shapes, I would never have thought of that, and to Mike Lates for the advice on slings.

Looking forward to slowly building my own rack up now

In reply to sazbomb:
I would get a hold of Andy Kirkpatrick's PDF on NUTCRAFT - its only £4quid or something.

Its a good read for any level I think. Not just beginners.

In reply to sazbomb:

Depends on the rock... I have a set (all DMM) of wallnuts and a set of offsets (actually 1-5 peenuts, 7-11 offsets, would like to get the brass offsets at some point). Also being Welsh I am both happy and obligated to support quality Welsh manufacturing :P

Some rock seems to eat wallnuts and offsets don't fit well, and some rock seems to love the offsets and hate the wallnuts. BUT - often you will find a funny shaped crack and after fiddling around trying to get one shape to fit nicely and failing, you can get the other shape to fit much much better. So variety is the spice of life; I like that wallnuts and offsets are radically different shapes for radically different things. Wallnuts are much better for camming in horizontal cracks, for example, due to their curved back, but offsets often fit in crappy flaring cracks with flattish sides where a wallnut just won't sit nicely.

That said in the best nut slots you can sometimes get away with anything! I regularly place offsets where I would rather place a wallnut, or vice versa, because I have already placed that size, but often it is still fine - many placements will take either shape.

I find the peenuts slightly less useful than the alloy offsets, but they do seem to be good for wedging into small awkward irregular placements where you have a complicated crack structure.

In reply to sazbomb:

I would say that offsets are no better than normal nuts/rocks. Now and again one might go in where the other wouldn't.

In reply to sazbomb:

Sarah,

Definitely good to mix and match with nuts, which gives you a breadth of shapes.

Given you have a set of BD Stoppers, I would go for some DMM Wallnuts, as WC Rocks are already quite similar in shape to your Stoppers (albeit slightly longer in body length), so the Wallnuts should offer you something a bit more unique.

In reply to Mike Lates:

mike, are you sure about those lengths (wouldn't want anyone to end up carrying 2 x 480s)
- sounds like all doubled to what is now the standard* method of measuring (1/2 the
circumference ie like a quickdraw) so a 60cm is the commonly trippled up sling draw,
120s are the ones that loop nicely around shoulders and joined by a krab and 240 for
setting up belays. of course still called 16ft by GL (and maybe PYB )

400cm are huge cordalettes - 480s ????

Cheers

*by manufacturers and retailers
eg http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Slings-Extend...

In reply to sazbomb:

Hi ya

agree with most people cant go wrong with DMM/WC set as a compliment, and cams is best to play with some before jumping in, as they are pricey and a bit personal (but all work - some better than others...)

theres nought wrong with your BD nuts, in fact they cover a wider range and
they go much smaller than a WC/ DMM 1 (not that this will bother you too much at this
point) and the mediums ones are excellent. The BD color(sic) scheme is different to the
WC/DMM scheme (which is cool as it extends to the WC hexes/torque nuts, large (11..14) rocks and their cams)

Offsets i really like now, but i seemed to have managed for years without them , not essential (nice xmas pressie!)

Mike is right about slings (but note my other post about lengths)

In reply to sazbomb:

If you are duplicating a set of nuts, my opinion would be to get a different set from a different manufacturer as they will be a different shape and give you more options. Get whichever is cheapest at the time.

I never had colour coded nuts and I don't think it makes any difference to my ability to select the correct size. I now have some colour coded ones and some that aren't - I don't think it matters.

In reply to sazbomb:

My rack is a collection of all sorts of things - with different types of nuts and also cams. I try to keep all the gear in order of size then I can gauge roughly what is needed.

I suspect anyone using my rack finds it difficult to comprehend however I am used to its variances.

When I started (millions of years ago !) there wasn't much choice - ie a big MOAC or a baby MOAC (mid 1960's) so not a difficult choice- as well as some meccano nuts on "bits of string".

Now good to get a full set of a particular company - but I would have thought it would be good to have gear from a different company to fit a further range of cracks etc.

Ditto with cams.

I have not read anything else on this subject - so I may be all wrong on this - but it is good to have a mixture of gear for the various placements.

In reply to lithos:

You're right. Have to admit to being of the 8ft, 4ft, 16ft school that had to buy the right amount of tape to make slings. So Sara, halve the lengths when asking in a shop and take lithos' descriptions of how they should fit around shoulders.

In reply to sazbomb:

myself i have DMM, WC, and BD nuts, some doubled up, especially smaller nuts up to 5, then singles of diffrent makes with a set of DMM offsets to balance things out.

on the cams ive stuck to WC but have a mixture of technical and helium friends as i find these a good compromise, covering a wide range.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Do this, I almost use offsets more than regular nuts.