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If the thread on various epics on the Eiger NF sounded bad - including Harrers White Spider - this account of the ill fated attempt on the Central Pillar of Freney in 1961, is certainly up there when it comes to harrowing!
In case some folks on here aren't aware of it, here's a link to it. Worth a read, just to see if you can get your head round how bad it was!
http://www.summitpost.org/the-1961-drama-of-the-central-pillar-of-freney/82...
Post edited at 12:13
In reply to Goucho:
Even my parents, Lakeland farmers with no interest of mountaineering, knew of the Freney tragedy.
As mentioned on the Eiger thread, they were up there in clothing most would consider inadequate for walking the dog. It was of course the best of the day.
Even my parents, Lakeland farmers with no interest of mountaineering, knew of the Freney tragedy.
As mentioned on the Eiger thread, they were up there in clothing most would consider inadequate for walking the dog. It was of course the best of the day.
Post edited at 12:47
In reply to Bob:
The term 'Hard Man' gets bandied about a lot, but the climbers from that era really were! Can you imagine what they would have achieved given modern day gear?
> As mentioned on the Eiger thread, they were up there in clothing most would consider inadequate for walking the dog. It was of course the best of the day.
The term 'Hard Man' gets bandied about a lot, but the climbers from that era really were! Can you imagine what they would have achieved given modern day gear?
In reply to Goucho:
Pulling in another thread (the article about the Desmaison-Gouseallt (spelling) on the Jorasses), the piece in Desmaison's book about being rescued after having sat next to his dead companion for several days and being close to death himself. Apparently the rescuer says: "My God Rene, you're a hard man!"
Pulling in another thread (the article about the Desmaison-Gouseallt (spelling) on the Jorasses), the piece in Desmaison's book about being rescued after having sat next to his dead companion for several days and being close to death himself. Apparently the rescuer says: "My God Rene, you're a hard man!"
In reply to Goucho:
My dad used to roam the fells without any special kit, and white water kayak in his shorts and a wool jumper.
He loves all the new kit now
My dad used to roam the fells without any special kit, and white water kayak in his shorts and a wool jumper.
He loves all the new kit now
In reply to marsbar:
I like the photo of Whillans in flat cap and baseball boots on the bivi below the Chandelle only a few days after the tragedy. Probably looking forward to frying up the raw potatoes into chips. Wonder what he had for gravy to go with them, disgusting manc habit.
I like the photo of Whillans in flat cap and baseball boots on the bivi below the Chandelle only a few days after the tragedy. Probably looking forward to frying up the raw potatoes into chips. Wonder what he had for gravy to go with them, disgusting manc habit.
2
In reply to marsbar:
Got caught out the first time I went to a Manchester chippy.
Ladled it on for free before I could complain.
Only once
Got caught out the first time I went to a Manchester chippy.
Ladled it on for free before I could complain.
Only once
In reply to Goucho:
Hi G sorry for the culinary diversion.
Not done the FP but heard that the stormbound bivi ledge is surprisingly small.
Hi G sorry for the culinary diversion.
Not done the FP but heard that the stormbound bivi ledge is surprisingly small.
In reply to Rick Graham:
Only seem to recall the obvious one below the Chandelle Rick - is that the one?
We did the long approach day one, and bivi'd at the foot of the pillar. After a 'very' early start, we pretty much cruised (much to our surprise) the route to another ( small and cramped) bivi above the chandelle on day two. Day three was up via the Broullard to Mont Blanc de Courmayer and Mt Blanc and decent via the Grises down to Val Veny.
Apart from a bit of iffy weather at the Chandelle for a couple of hours, which made it a bit icy, we had good weather and conditions, but I would imagine getting caught out in a bad storm up there would be truly bloody horrendous.
> Hi G sorry for the culinary diversion.
> Not done the FP but heard that the stormbound bivi ledge is surprisingly small.
Only seem to recall the obvious one below the Chandelle Rick - is that the one?
We did the long approach day one, and bivi'd at the foot of the pillar. After a 'very' early start, we pretty much cruised (much to our surprise) the route to another ( small and cramped) bivi above the chandelle on day two. Day three was up via the Broullard to Mont Blanc de Courmayer and Mt Blanc and decent via the Grises down to Val Veny.
Apart from a bit of iffy weather at the Chandelle for a couple of hours, which made it a bit icy, we had good weather and conditions, but I would imagine getting caught out in a bad storm up there would be truly bloody horrendous.
In reply to Goucho:
Not been there but yes.
and a worse descent nowadays with the crevasse situation on the Freney glacier
> Only seem to recall the obvious one below the Chandelle Rick - is that the one?
Not been there but yes.
> Apart from a bit of iffy weather at the Chandelle for a couple of hours, which made it a bit icy, we had good weather and conditions, but I would imagine getting caught out in a bad storm up there would be truly bloody horrendous.
and a worse descent nowadays with the crevasse situation on the Freney glacier
In reply to Rick Graham:
It's not exactly a run of the mill glacier going up in good weather, descending in a storm, knackered, not a pleasant thought!
> Not been there but yes.
> and a worse descent nowadays with the crevasse situation on the Freney glacier
It's not exactly a run of the mill glacier going up in good weather, descending in a storm, knackered, not a pleasant thought!
In reply to Goucho:
Shot #12 here http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/slideshow.php?s=freney shows the ledge at the base of the Chandelle, surprisingly small from what I can remember of it, maybe room for two, three at a push. A search brought up surprisingly few photos of the ledge (other than those in the Summitpost article) but here's one - http://www.flickriver.com/places/France/Rhone-Alpes/Freney/search/ which is from http://www.flickriver.com/photos/andywalker1/14174153996/
We bivvied at the Eccles hut, got to one pitch from the top of the Chandelle in one day, had a very airy bivvy on a narrow ledge then over the top of Mt Blanc and down to Chamonix the next day.
Shot #12 here http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/slideshow.php?s=freney shows the ledge at the base of the Chandelle, surprisingly small from what I can remember of it, maybe room for two, three at a push. A search brought up surprisingly few photos of the ledge (other than those in the Summitpost article) but here's one - http://www.flickriver.com/places/France/Rhone-Alpes/Freney/search/ which is from http://www.flickriver.com/photos/andywalker1/14174153996/
We bivvied at the Eccles hut, got to one pitch from the top of the Chandelle in one day, had a very airy bivvy on a narrow ledge then over the top of Mt Blanc and down to Chamonix the next day.
Post edited at 19:37
In reply to Bob:
God it is small isn't it - especially for 6/7.
That's a lot of climbing in one day Bob.
> Shot #12 here http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/slideshow.php?s=freney shows the ledge at the base of the Chandelle, surprisingly small from what I can remember of it, maybe room for two, three at a push. A search brought up surprisingly few photos of the ledge (other than those in the Summitpost article) but here's one - http://www.flickriver.com/places/France/Rhone-Alpes/Freney/search/ which is from http://www.flickriver.com/photos/andywalker1/14174153996/
God it is small isn't it - especially for 6/7.
> We bivvied at the Eccles hut, got to one pitch from the top of the Chandelle in one day, had a very airy bivvy on a narrow ledge then over the top of Mt Blanc and down to Chamonix the next day.
That's a lot of climbing in one day Bob.
In reply to Goucho:
Yep
In plastic boots it certainly was! If we'd just pushed on that day we'd have been able to bivvy in comfort just off the back of the Chandelle.
> God it is small isn't it - especially for 6/7.
Yep
> That's a lot of climbing in one day Bob.
In plastic boots it certainly was! If we'd just pushed on that day we'd have been able to bivvy in comfort just off the back of the Chandelle.
In reply to Bob:
You want to try it in a pair of Galibier Super Pros?
> Yep
> In plastic boots it certainly was! If we'd just pushed on that day we'd have been able to bivvy in comfort just off the back of the Chandelle.
You want to try it in a pair of Galibier Super Pros?
Post edited at 19:49
1
In reply to Goucho:
My partner was either in Super Pros or RDs. Not sure which was worse
> You want to try it in a pair of Galibier Super Pros?
My partner was either in Super Pros or RDs. Not sure which was worse
In reply to Bob:
Apart from weighing slightly more than all the rest of your gear put together, Super Pro's were great boots - once they'd broken your feet in!
> My partner was either in Super Pros or RDs. Not sure which was worse
Apart from weighing slightly more than all the rest of your gear put together, Super Pro's were great boots - once they'd broken your feet in!
In reply to Goucho:
Liked both pairs of RD's I had.
Used the Super Pros once. Bought them after a lunchtime session in the Nash. Felt a really good fit for climbing.
First route on tried to solo the Route Major, stormed first night so ended up doing the Brenva. Did not notice any problem until I started to descend off the top.
So if you saw a lone climber descending backwards, that was me. Never wore them again.
> Apart from weighing slightly more than all the rest of your gear put together, Super Pro's were great boots - once they'd broken your feet in!
Liked both pairs of RD's I had.
Used the Super Pros once. Bought them after a lunchtime session in the Nash. Felt a really good fit for climbing.
First route on tried to solo the Route Major, stormed first night so ended up doing the Brenva. Did not notice any problem until I started to descend off the top.
So if you saw a lone climber descending backwards, that was me. Never wore them again.
In reply to Rick Graham:
Yep, they are real ankle biters on a steep decent.
Had two pairs of Super Pro's, and a pair of Super Guides before that, still probably one of the toughest and best alpine boots I've ever owned. I've still got my last pair, can't bear to part with them. The plastic toe cap has virtually disintegrated, but with a nice massage with some Hydrolan, I reckon they'd still cut the mustard, unlike their owner!
> So if you saw a lone climber descending backwards, that was me. Never wore them again.
Yep, they are real ankle biters on a steep decent.
Had two pairs of Super Pro's, and a pair of Super Guides before that, still probably one of the toughest and best alpine boots I've ever owned. I've still got my last pair, can't bear to part with them. The plastic toe cap has virtually disintegrated, but with a nice massage with some Hydrolan, I reckon they'd still cut the mustard, unlike their owner!
In reply to Goucho:
Snubbed toes for me. You maybe have a bit more space there than me
At one time everybody wore RD's. Allegedly still being made somewhere. I feel a google coming on.
> Yep, they are real ankle biters on a steep decent.
Snubbed toes for me. You maybe have a bit more space there than me
At one time everybody wore RD's. Allegedly still being made somewhere. I feel a google coming on.
In reply to Rick Graham:
PMSL
Piece of neoprene in the front cures it, less painful for front pointing too.
I tried a pair of those once, couldn't get on with them at all.
> Snubbed toes for me. You maybe have a bit more space there than me
PMSL
Piece of neoprene in the front cures it, less painful for front pointing too.
> At one time everybody wore RD's. Allegedly still being made somewhere. I feel a google coming on.
I tried a pair of those once, couldn't get on with them at all.
Post edited at 21:08
In reply to Goucho:
Googled Galibier boots France
Not checked the address but it might be in the next village to you.
> What! Are they still being made???
Googled Galibier boots France
Not checked the address but it might be in the next village to you.
Post edited at 21:12
In reply to Rick Graham:
Freissinieres. Not exactly the next village, but not that far either. Now do I go and get a pair before we move back to the UK????
Freissinieres. Not exactly the next village, but not that far either. Now do I go and get a pair before we move back to the UK????
In reply to Goucho:
In, um, about 1978 or 79 my mate Deke (of Charlotte's Harlots, etc) and another mate Duncan got badly stormbound above the Freney pillar. Sat in a snowhole, sitting it out. Deke was OK(ish), Duncan starting going downhill. Sleeping fitfully, waking up screaming that he was going to lose his bits. In the end, to save Duncan, Deke bailed, into the storm. And up and over the pair of them went, down to eventual safety. Easier said than done. But they did it. Had to.
Ten days later, back in Yorkshire, a merry band of pissheads (including Duncan) headed out for a fun day at Langcliffe Quarry. In nearly 50 years, I've never climbed in a more dangerous place. And, sure enough, somebody (have a guess who!) was being right royally set up. 'A fine mountaineering route'. Which, translated from Yorkshire into plain ole English meant Absolute F*cking Death On A Stick.
I felt so sorry for Duncan. As leader of the second lot, he'd survived the Freney episode only to stare his maker in the face at a shitty quarry in th' Dales. "For God's sake, give us a top-rope!" he wailed. After the requisite fun taunting him with the prospect of not giving him one, the rope dutifully snaked down. Duncan grabbed it like a man possessed and tied in. Post-Freney, he just hadn't got any more adrenaline.
And so we continued. How many did Buhl have tied into him on the Eiger. Eight? I think I had five or six. Boggie offered to lead the last pitch. (By then I'd been so gripped for so long, I was past caring.) "That's kind of you, "I muttered. "It's solid... and there's gear on it, you dickhead," he retorted. They don't mince words in Yorkshire.
Where was Deke in all this, I wonder? Probably shagging. And, God knows, after leaving that bivvy with Duncan, he'd earned a day of rest. He was great, he really was. So much shared hardship - and never a harsh word exchanged between us. Although from darkest Yorkshire (it doesn't get much darker than Keighley!) he was culturally French, a fun guy, with an eye for the ladies. And yes Deke, I know you ran off with my girlfriend years later but hey, these things happen. If I ever had to leave a bivvy and head out into a raging storm, I'd rather it was with you.
Mick
In, um, about 1978 or 79 my mate Deke (of Charlotte's Harlots, etc) and another mate Duncan got badly stormbound above the Freney pillar. Sat in a snowhole, sitting it out. Deke was OK(ish), Duncan starting going downhill. Sleeping fitfully, waking up screaming that he was going to lose his bits. In the end, to save Duncan, Deke bailed, into the storm. And up and over the pair of them went, down to eventual safety. Easier said than done. But they did it. Had to.
Ten days later, back in Yorkshire, a merry band of pissheads (including Duncan) headed out for a fun day at Langcliffe Quarry. In nearly 50 years, I've never climbed in a more dangerous place. And, sure enough, somebody (have a guess who!) was being right royally set up. 'A fine mountaineering route'. Which, translated from Yorkshire into plain ole English meant Absolute F*cking Death On A Stick.
I felt so sorry for Duncan. As leader of the second lot, he'd survived the Freney episode only to stare his maker in the face at a shitty quarry in th' Dales. "For God's sake, give us a top-rope!" he wailed. After the requisite fun taunting him with the prospect of not giving him one, the rope dutifully snaked down. Duncan grabbed it like a man possessed and tied in. Post-Freney, he just hadn't got any more adrenaline.
And so we continued. How many did Buhl have tied into him on the Eiger. Eight? I think I had five or six. Boggie offered to lead the last pitch. (By then I'd been so gripped for so long, I was past caring.) "That's kind of you, "I muttered. "It's solid... and there's gear on it, you dickhead," he retorted. They don't mince words in Yorkshire.
Where was Deke in all this, I wonder? Probably shagging. And, God knows, after leaving that bivvy with Duncan, he'd earned a day of rest. He was great, he really was. So much shared hardship - and never a harsh word exchanged between us. Although from darkest Yorkshire (it doesn't get much darker than Keighley!) he was culturally French, a fun guy, with an eye for the ladies. And yes Deke, I know you ran off with my girlfriend years later but hey, these things happen. If I ever had to leave a bivvy and head out into a raging storm, I'd rather it was with you.
Mick
In reply to Rick Graham:
Outrageously small to be honest. Remember being sat belaying on it & being thankfully that it wasn't my bed for the night.
> Not done the FP but heard that the stormbound bivi ledge is surprisingly small.
Outrageously small to be honest. Remember being sat belaying on it & being thankfully that it wasn't my bed for the night.
In reply to Mick Ward:
Glad you got those repressed feelings out of the way Mick!
Yorkshiremen are reet 'ard
Glad you got those repressed feelings out of the way Mick!
Yorkshiremen are reet 'ard
In reply to pneame
Don't I know it! Thought Bradford was 'ard until I went to Keighley. Talk about shoot out at the OK corral every Friday and Saturday night. A neighbour used to get the bus into town, dressed in full cowboy regalia, stetson, spurs, shooters etc. Well, you can guess what happened!
Boggie once took Martin Berzins for 'a quiet night's drinking in Keighley' starting (and finishing) at what was later described by a high court judge as, 'the most violent pub in Britain'. Berzins went a whiter shade of pale and made a swift withdrawal back to Leeds, never to return.
Anyway enough of this between routes frivolity. I can feel a tale of another reet 'ard Yorkie and his even 'arder mate, on the Freney coming on. Perhaps later...
Mick
> Yorkshiremen are reet 'ard...
Don't I know it! Thought Bradford was 'ard until I went to Keighley. Talk about shoot out at the OK corral every Friday and Saturday night. A neighbour used to get the bus into town, dressed in full cowboy regalia, stetson, spurs, shooters etc. Well, you can guess what happened!
Boggie once took Martin Berzins for 'a quiet night's drinking in Keighley' starting (and finishing) at what was later described by a high court judge as, 'the most violent pub in Britain'. Berzins went a whiter shade of pale and made a swift withdrawal back to Leeds, never to return.
Anyway enough of this between routes frivolity. I can feel a tale of another reet 'ard Yorkie and his even 'arder mate, on the Freney coming on. Perhaps later...
Mick
In reply to Goucho:
Some more interesting detail about the first ascent controversy here. http://www.summitpost.org/l-affaire-freney/827900
Some more interesting detail about the first ascent controversy here. http://www.summitpost.org/l-affaire-freney/827900
In reply to Sean Kelly:
There's a video linked from that article - http://www.tvmountain.com/video/alpinisme/7773-pilier-du-freney-mont-blanc.... The section on the Chandelle begins at around 12 minutes in to it. You can see the Bonatti bivouac site as a subsidiary block leaning against the foot of the tower. At 15:20 there's a shot looking down on to it. The ledge at about 21 minutes is where we bivvied.
There's a video of a British ascent around somewhere, got Tim Neill in it.
There's a video linked from that article - http://www.tvmountain.com/video/alpinisme/7773-pilier-du-freney-mont-blanc.... The section on the Chandelle begins at around 12 minutes in to it. You can see the Bonatti bivouac site as a subsidiary block leaning against the foot of the tower. At 15:20 there's a shot looking down on to it. The ledge at about 21 minutes is where we bivvied.
There's a video of a British ascent around somewhere, got Tim Neill in it.
Post edited at 17:40
In reply to Sean Kelly:
That is great - wonderful pictures "employee of a tinned food manufacturer and a plumber and zinc worker"
And, having lost the race - let's not have a race after all and we'll put everyone on the same team. Sounds very modern to me - everyone's a winner!
That is great - wonderful pictures "employee of a tinned food manufacturer and a plumber and zinc worker"
And, having lost the race - let's not have a race after all and we'll put everyone on the same team. Sounds very modern to me - everyone's a winner!
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