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I think I might have too much to swallow for North Wales. Help me narrow it down please! I imagine we will have 3 or 4 days in the area and I haven't even gotten to Tremadog yet which I would like to check out. We would like to explore around and site see as well so though there might be better climbing in snowdonia, if you think it is worth it to go to Llandundo to explore and site see or maybe even near anglesea then I would rather do that than spend 5 days in the pass or something. This also depends on weather so maybe keeping Llandudno as a weather backup is a good thing. Please give Tremadog recommendations and specific Quarries in Dinorwig if you can! That would really help me out. I plan to keep the trad under 5.8 and sport at 5.11a and under.
Llanberis
Carreg Wastas (3 pitches)
- The Wrinkle (5.4)
- Crackstone Rib (5.5)
- Shadow Wall (5.7)
Dinas Cromlech (2 - 6 pitches)
- Spiral Stairs (6 pitches - 5.4)
- Flying Buttress (6 pitches - 5.4)
- Dives/Better Things (5.7)
- Sabre Cut (5.8+)
- Noah’s Warning (5.10a/b)
Dinas Mot (4 - 5 pitches)
- The Cracks (5.6+)
- Direct Route (5.8)
- Diagonal (5.9)
Diffwys Ddu or Cyrn Las (3 - 6 pitches) - Long Hike
- Main Wall (5.6)
*Clogwyn Du’r Arddu (5 pitches)
Great Bow Combination (5.8+)
*Dinorwig Quarries (NEED MORE SUGGESTIONS FOR AREAS)
- Bus Stop Quarry
- Vivian Quarry
Landundno
- Mayfair Wall
- Achovy Madonna
- Connor’s Folly
Plumbline Area
- Plumbline
Lower Pen Trywn
- Mad O’Rourke’s Kipper House
- Under the Boardwalk
- Kaffe Fasset
- Skin Deep
- Skin Game
- Beaty is Only
- Golden Pond
Yellow Wall
- String of Pearls
- Pale Shelter???
Post edited at 13:57
In reply to CL1MB0N:
Yep, Tremadog definitely worth a visit and sometimes dry when the mountain crags are getting rained on.
Australia area of the quarries has plenty nice routes, there's a really good guide to the quarries by 'Ground Up'.
A day on the East face of Tryfan, some excellent and long routes on there.
Dinas Mot is a fine crag, but beware it doesn't get too much sun so can be chilly whilst the crags on the north side of the pass are basking in the sun.
The 'North Wales Rock' guide by 'Ground Up' would be worth having, will provide plenty ideas and inspiration.
Yep, Tremadog definitely worth a visit and sometimes dry when the mountain crags are getting rained on.
Australia area of the quarries has plenty nice routes, there's a really good guide to the quarries by 'Ground Up'.
A day on the East face of Tryfan, some excellent and long routes on there.
Dinas Mot is a fine crag, but beware it doesn't get too much sun so can be chilly whilst the crags on the north side of the pass are basking in the sun.
The 'North Wales Rock' guide by 'Ground Up' would be worth having, will provide plenty ideas and inspiration.
In reply to A Mountain Journey:
Thanks! I have the Ground Up guide actually. I just feel for the few days in the area I need to narrow down the places I have on my list. So you say Dinas Mot is someplace I can skip then? What else on that list?
Thanks! I have the Ground Up guide actually. I just feel for the few days in the area I need to narrow down the places I have on my list. So you say Dinas Mot is someplace I can skip then? What else on that list?
In reply to CL1MB0N:
No i wouldn't say skip Dinas Mot, just be aware it's often colder than the other side of the pass.
No i wouldn't say skip Dinas Mot, just be aware it's often colder than the other side of the pass.
In reply to CL1MB0N:
In the Pass, Mot and Cromlech are the "must visit" crags, the rest is a bit crap in comparison. Wrinkle, in particular, is rubbish (and loose). Crackstone Rib is a nice roadside route, suitable for an evening potter if you have some energy left after harder and better routes on the Mot or Cromlech. It might be worth pushing the trad a tiny bit harder to take in Cemetary Gates on Cromlech, as while it's given E1 it's totally overgraded and is a total jugfest and covered in gear. Do it one pitch big pitch. It's a super-classic route with wonderful exposure and is probably easier than Diagonal (which is rather bold) and Great Bow which will probably be cold and damp as well as bold.
I wouldn't plan on getting to Cloggy - just take the opportunity if there happens to be a heatwave.
> So you say Dinas Mot is someplace I can skip then? What else on that list?
In the Pass, Mot and Cromlech are the "must visit" crags, the rest is a bit crap in comparison. Wrinkle, in particular, is rubbish (and loose). Crackstone Rib is a nice roadside route, suitable for an evening potter if you have some energy left after harder and better routes on the Mot or Cromlech. It might be worth pushing the trad a tiny bit harder to take in Cemetary Gates on Cromlech, as while it's given E1 it's totally overgraded and is a total jugfest and covered in gear. Do it one pitch big pitch. It's a super-classic route with wonderful exposure and is probably easier than Diagonal (which is rather bold) and Great Bow which will probably be cold and damp as well as bold.
I wouldn't plan on getting to Cloggy - just take the opportunity if there happens to be a heatwave.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
So Dinas Mot and Cromlech over Cloggy. That is a surprise but great to know, thanks! Where do you recommend in the Quarries for some sport/trad?
So Dinas Mot and Cromlech over Cloggy. That is a surprise but great to know, thanks! Where do you recommend in the Quarries for some sport/trad?
In reply to CL1MB0N:
In Britain we have weather. All sorts, sometimes it can be summer and snowing on the same day. Though hopefully not in May!
Your list does need narrowing down a bit, but try to stay flexible with what you plan to do on different days (until you get the short term forecast) and see where the rain shadow is, you're more likely to have success than if you come with a schedule.
In Britain we have weather. All sorts, sometimes it can be summer and snowing on the same day. Though hopefully not in May!
Your list does need narrowing down a bit, but try to stay flexible with what you plan to do on different days (until you get the short term forecast) and see where the rain shadow is, you're more likely to have success than if you come with a schedule.
1
In reply to CL1MB0N:
It's mostly about conditions - May in North Wales can bring consistently warm dry weather, mostly dry weather with occasional showers, mostly wet weather with occasional breaks or seemingly endless mingingness.
By and large, the higher crags and more North facing crags take longer to dry, while lower crags and more South facing crags (and slate, which is magic) dry quicker, and stuff outside or on the edge of the main bulk of the mountains (including slate, Tremadoc, Anglesey, the Orme, the Moelwyns) gets less rain than stuff right in the middle (like Cloggy, the Pass, Tryfan etc).
What Jon's saying is that you might get the long period of warm dry weather over the mountains that it takes to get up to Cloggy (high, North facing), but if you've got your heart set on it then you might be disappointed. Whereas if you've got dream routes on other venues in the pass then you'll probably get some of them done even if the weather's a bit patchy. Similarly, if you've got some stuff you want to do on slate, Tremadoc, the Orme, the Moelwyns etc then it's less likely to have been rained on in the first place. So by all means come up with stuff you want to do on Cloggy, Lliwedd, Clogwyn y Ddysgl and so on, but be aware of what sort of conditions you need to have had for it to be practical - otherwise you could end up at best disappointed or at worst wasting a day walking in to a dripping wet crag.
Your guidebook should be good on which crags dry quickly, but the basic rule is to watch out for high and North facing. Also if it's iffy then there's an argument for doing stuff that's closer to the road so you don't waste a long walk in if you make the wrong call.
> So Dinas Mot and Cromlech over Cloggy. That is a surprise but great to know, thanks! Where do you recommend in the Quarries for some sport/trad?
It's mostly about conditions - May in North Wales can bring consistently warm dry weather, mostly dry weather with occasional showers, mostly wet weather with occasional breaks or seemingly endless mingingness.
By and large, the higher crags and more North facing crags take longer to dry, while lower crags and more South facing crags (and slate, which is magic) dry quicker, and stuff outside or on the edge of the main bulk of the mountains (including slate, Tremadoc, Anglesey, the Orme, the Moelwyns) gets less rain than stuff right in the middle (like Cloggy, the Pass, Tryfan etc).
What Jon's saying is that you might get the long period of warm dry weather over the mountains that it takes to get up to Cloggy (high, North facing), but if you've got your heart set on it then you might be disappointed. Whereas if you've got dream routes on other venues in the pass then you'll probably get some of them done even if the weather's a bit patchy. Similarly, if you've got some stuff you want to do on slate, Tremadoc, the Orme, the Moelwyns etc then it's less likely to have been rained on in the first place. So by all means come up with stuff you want to do on Cloggy, Lliwedd, Clogwyn y Ddysgl and so on, but be aware of what sort of conditions you need to have had for it to be practical - otherwise you could end up at best disappointed or at worst wasting a day walking in to a dripping wet crag.
Your guidebook should be good on which crags dry quickly, but the basic rule is to watch out for high and North facing. Also if it's iffy then there's an argument for doing stuff that's closer to the road so you don't waste a long walk in if you make the wrong call.
Post edited at 15:15
2
In reply to climbwhenready:
Okay good to know, so based on weather flexibility, do you think this is a good list to hang to? In other words, is this a good list which will give me plenty of options regarding weather?
Okay good to know, so based on weather flexibility, do you think this is a good list to hang to? In other words, is this a good list which will give me plenty of options regarding weather?
In reply to CL1MB0N:
I'm the wrong person to ask, I don't know North Wales that well yet, but I'm sure other people will answer that
I'm the wrong person to ask, I don't know North Wales that well yet, but I'm sure other people will answer that
In reply to CL1MB0N:
Go to Cloggy if there's a heatwave, otherwise yes.
I'm not a big fan of the slate, and tbh the mid-grade bolted stuff I've done is both crap and a bit dangerous (first bolts @ 6m). Can't really think of anything memorable I've done on slate below E2. It is quite unique and maybe comes into its own at harder grades - for sport you're probably better off on the limestone and for trad in the mountains. A good option for a showery day though, it dries really quick.
> So Dinas Mot and Cromlech over Cloggy.
Go to Cloggy if there's a heatwave, otherwise yes.
> Where do you recommend in the Quarries for some sport/trad?
I'm not a big fan of the slate, and tbh the mid-grade bolted stuff I've done is both crap and a bit dangerous (first bolts @ 6m). Can't really think of anything memorable I've done on slate below E2. It is quite unique and maybe comes into its own at harder grades - for sport you're probably better off on the limestone and for trad in the mountains. A good option for a showery day though, it dries really quick.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
So you think I should skip Slate if it rains and maybe check out Tremadog instead? A lot of people go on and on about the slate quarries but all the grades I have seen are pretty tough like in the 5.12+ range which is out of for me. So if weather is really good, I want to check out the pass, if weather is bad I should check out tremadog and Great Orme area and maybe a slate day or something? Does that sound appropriate? I think with what I have planned in The Gower and this plan I should be all set for climbing for the 10 days. Once we get to north wales, I plan on staying in Porthmadog and then head up to Llamberis next which will allow me to stay close to the pass if there is good weather but also have options to other places if weather is not so good. As for The Gower I have these crags picked out,
Fall Bay Buttress
Three Cliffs Bay
- Scavenger (5.8)
Juniper Wall
Foxhole Cove
*Witches Point
Treherbert Quarry (Rhondda Pillar)
I probably won't hit up all of those so I think if I had to I would do Witches point, Three Cliffs, and Juniper
So you think I should skip Slate if it rains and maybe check out Tremadog instead? A lot of people go on and on about the slate quarries but all the grades I have seen are pretty tough like in the 5.12+ range which is out of for me. So if weather is really good, I want to check out the pass, if weather is bad I should check out tremadog and Great Orme area and maybe a slate day or something? Does that sound appropriate? I think with what I have planned in The Gower and this plan I should be all set for climbing for the 10 days. Once we get to north wales, I plan on staying in Porthmadog and then head up to Llamberis next which will allow me to stay close to the pass if there is good weather but also have options to other places if weather is not so good. As for The Gower I have these crags picked out,
Fall Bay Buttress
Three Cliffs Bay
- Scavenger (5.8)
Juniper Wall
Foxhole Cove
*Witches Point
Treherbert Quarry (Rhondda Pillar)
I probably won't hit up all of those so I think if I had to I would do Witches point, Three Cliffs, and Juniper
In reply to CL1MB0N:
There's plenty of worthwhile low-to-mid grade bolted stuff in Australia quarry. It's not world class in the grand scheme of easy sport climbing, but it's an unusual enough style to be worth a visit. There's a bit of mid-grade trad as well - Seamstress at VS, a slightly wider selection at HVS...
In general, though, you might be overthinking all this a bit - you seem to be trying to produce a flowchart that'll tell you exactly which is the optimal route at the optimal crag to on any given day in any given conditions. It's probably better for your sanity to just produce a list of big, cold mountain crags that you want to get on if the weather's great, a list of lower, warmer crags to get on if it's slightly iffy, and a bunch of outlying ones to get on if it's iffy in the hills by dry on the edges, then go with what you feel like on the day. If you generally end up climbing decent routes at reasonably appropriate grades at A-list Welsh crags - of which there are plenty - then you'll have a great trip.
Fall Bay would be my pick for a Gower visit, though.
There's plenty of worthwhile low-to-mid grade bolted stuff in Australia quarry. It's not world class in the grand scheme of easy sport climbing, but it's an unusual enough style to be worth a visit. There's a bit of mid-grade trad as well - Seamstress at VS, a slightly wider selection at HVS...
In general, though, you might be overthinking all this a bit - you seem to be trying to produce a flowchart that'll tell you exactly which is the optimal route at the optimal crag to on any given day in any given conditions. It's probably better for your sanity to just produce a list of big, cold mountain crags that you want to get on if the weather's great, a list of lower, warmer crags to get on if it's slightly iffy, and a bunch of outlying ones to get on if it's iffy in the hills by dry on the edges, then go with what you feel like on the day. If you generally end up climbing decent routes at reasonably appropriate grades at A-list Welsh crags - of which there are plenty - then you'll have a great trip.
Fall Bay would be my pick for a Gower visit, though.
Post edited at 18:27
In reply to CL1MB0N:
That's a tough call, I've often had to ponder it myself. There is no right answer! Slate dries quicker and both can be very convenient for getting back to the car. TreeMudRock has the advantage of Eric's caf.
They do indeed. Afraid I can't advise on any of the limestone stuff, I don't know any of it - nor Gower.
> So you think I should skip Slate if it rains and maybe check out Tremadog instead?
That's a tough call, I've often had to ponder it myself. There is no right answer! Slate dries quicker and both can be very convenient for getting back to the car. TreeMudRock has the advantage of Eric's caf.
> A lot of people go on and on about the slate quarries...
They do indeed. Afraid I can't advise on any of the limestone stuff, I don't know any of it - nor Gower.
Post edited at 18:41
In reply to CL1MB0N:
Your plans need more flexibility. Frankly if you are very unlucky and the weather is terrible in Snowdonia you may be better off elsewhere, like staying in South Wales or even consider heading further south to SW England.
If you are wanting to head to Snowdonia I think you have typically the very best time to be there: long days and fast drying crags with normally less hassle from the dreaded midges. Only the very highest mountain crags not really in the sun won't dry in a day.
I'd also ignore all Jon's negative points: he is a good bloke with some great recommendations but has some rather odd dislikes. One safe slate route I'd say is an essential part of the area experience (and history) and given some routes dry in minutes its a great quick hit on an otherwise poor day: Wrinkle is a overpopular but still worthwhile 5.4 and no more loose than many mountain lines (or even Crackstone Rib).
Your plans need more flexibility. Frankly if you are very unlucky and the weather is terrible in Snowdonia you may be better off elsewhere, like staying in South Wales or even consider heading further south to SW England.
If you are wanting to head to Snowdonia I think you have typically the very best time to be there: long days and fast drying crags with normally less hassle from the dreaded midges. Only the very highest mountain crags not really in the sun won't dry in a day.
I'd also ignore all Jon's negative points: he is a good bloke with some great recommendations but has some rather odd dislikes. One safe slate route I'd say is an essential part of the area experience (and history) and given some routes dry in minutes its a great quick hit on an otherwise poor day: Wrinkle is a overpopular but still worthwhile 5.4 and no more loose than many mountain lines (or even Crackstone Rib).
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Slate's a bit Marmite, I love it. But saying it's dangerous as a sweeping statement is just untrue these days. There's tons of safe bolted stuff, as well as the spicy stuff.
> I'm not a big fan of the slate, and tbh the mid-grade bolted stuff I've done is both crap and a bit dangerous (first bolts @ 6m). Can't really think of anything memorable I've done on slate below E2.
Slate's a bit Marmite, I love it. But saying it's dangerous as a sweeping statement is just untrue these days. There's tons of safe bolted stuff, as well as the spicy stuff.
In reply to jezb1:
I was only commenting on the couple of routes I've done - the ones above the Seamstress slab I was thinking of in particular. If I thought that the more recently bolted routes looked any good (not including the huge long routes in Twyll Mawr which do sound pretty amazing) I wouldn't have wanted to put the OP off bolted slate, but I really am skeptical of quality mid-grade sport there. If the rock was of a 'travel to' standard, it would have been climbed yonks ago, and certainly not retro-bolted! Very happy to learn otherwise.
> Slate's a bit Marmite, I love it. But saying it's dangerous as a sweeping statement is just untrue these days. There's tons of safe bolted stuff, as well as the spicy stuff.
I was only commenting on the couple of routes I've done - the ones above the Seamstress slab I was thinking of in particular. If I thought that the more recently bolted routes looked any good (not including the huge long routes in Twyll Mawr which do sound pretty amazing) I wouldn't have wanted to put the OP off bolted slate, but I really am skeptical of quality mid-grade sport there. If the rock was of a 'travel to' standard, it would have been climbed yonks ago, and certainly not retro-bolted! Very happy to learn otherwise.
In reply to Offwidth:
In contrast, Offwidth has indiscriminate enthusiasm for just about anything!
> I'd also ignore all Jon's negative points: he is a good bloke with some great recommendations but has some rather odd dislikes.
In contrast, Offwidth has indiscriminate enthusiasm for just about anything!
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Hey, I'm biased, it's just down the road from me and I love it! I enjoy the technical type of climbing.
I do think there's quality mid grade sport (and trad) there, but only if that's your type of thing.
There are plenty of semi bolted routes too, I love them as well!
Hey, I'm biased, it's just down the road from me and I love it! I enjoy the technical type of climbing.
I do think there's quality mid grade sport (and trad) there, but only if that's your type of thing.
There are plenty of semi bolted routes too, I love them as well!
In reply to CL1MB0N:
dude.....forget the yank grades....it makes no sense.....basically you are looking at anything under E1 and under. Your 3 days could have any kind of weather so be flexible as mentioned, long tick lists are likely to be superseded by conditions.
> all the grades I have seen are pretty tough like in the 5.12+
dude.....forget the yank grades....it makes no sense.....basically you are looking at anything under E1 and under. Your 3 days could have any kind of weather so be flexible as mentioned, long tick lists are likely to be superseded by conditions.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I like slate. The environment and climbing is unique. After rain it is the quickest drying of all N Wales crags but it gets more rain than Tremadog as it is nearer the highest hills. Recommendable routes from the guidebook are:
Trad up to E2:
Seamstress VS, 4c
Looning the Tube, HVS/E1, 5a
Patellaectomy E1 (hard)
Seams the same E1, 5b
Pull My Daisy, E2
There are a lot more at E2 and above, fewer below that.
Sport up to 6c:
Steps of Glory F5
Harri Bach Llanrug F6a
Plastic Soldier, F6a
Horse Latitudes F6a+
Orangutang Overhang, F6a+
Peter Pan F6a+
The Australian, F6b
The Burning, F6b
Release the Kraken, F6b+ (good climbing some worrying rock)
Slab Rog, F6b+
G'day Arete, F6c
There is a lot more. I have refrained from mentioning recent (post guidebook) routes, including my own, as approach details may be hard to find. Some of them are also very good. Also, a lot of slate routes are bolt protected but given trad grades because the bolts are well-spaced. I have missed these out as I am unsure of the grades to recommend but a lot are classic.
I like slate. The environment and climbing is unique. After rain it is the quickest drying of all N Wales crags but it gets more rain than Tremadog as it is nearer the highest hills. Recommendable routes from the guidebook are:
Trad up to E2:
Seamstress VS, 4c
Looning the Tube, HVS/E1, 5a
Patellaectomy E1 (hard)
Seams the same E1, 5b
Pull My Daisy, E2
There are a lot more at E2 and above, fewer below that.
Sport up to 6c:
Steps of Glory F5
Harri Bach Llanrug F6a
Plastic Soldier, F6a
Horse Latitudes F6a+
Orangutang Overhang, F6a+
Peter Pan F6a+
The Australian, F6b
The Burning, F6b
Release the Kraken, F6b+ (good climbing some worrying rock)
Slab Rog, F6b+
G'day Arete, F6c
There is a lot more. I have refrained from mentioning recent (post guidebook) routes, including my own, as approach details may be hard to find. Some of them are also very good. Also, a lot of slate routes are bolt protected but given trad grades because the bolts are well-spaced. I have missed these out as I am unsure of the grades to recommend but a lot are classic.
2
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I am indeed an enthusiast for many routes most people regard as esoteric (and Snowdonia is a place I climb obscure lines pretty often) but Im honest enough to be clear about esoteric nature when I recommend those and equally, I won't call a route rubbish when it gets spot on 2 stars on UKC logbooks by a large consensus (even if I would say its not worth It), as it pretty obviously isn't or even that loose (it makes me wonder how many you have done, as some loose rock on 1/2 star VDs in the area is hardly uncommon). Anyhow my real point is your positive choices are usually so excellent why be negative at all (especially about a 'classic' VD).
I am indeed an enthusiast for many routes most people regard as esoteric (and Snowdonia is a place I climb obscure lines pretty often) but Im honest enough to be clear about esoteric nature when I recommend those and equally, I won't call a route rubbish when it gets spot on 2 stars on UKC logbooks by a large consensus (even if I would say its not worth It), as it pretty obviously isn't or even that loose (it makes me wonder how many you have done, as some loose rock on 1/2 star VDs in the area is hardly uncommon). Anyhow my real point is your positive choices are usually so excellent why be negative at all (especially about a 'classic' VD).
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