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Hey there
Bike touring in Austria and Germany this summer for a month... not a fan of pedestrians blindly stepping out in front of me. Should I just go for a normal bike bell working on the assumption that most people know the characteristic sound and what it means, or do people tune the traditional sound out and should I go with something more alarming, or will odd sounds just cause confusion? (there are bells with more of a doorbell sound)
Or do I just learn how to say "get the f%$ out of my way" in German and go from there?
Bike touring in Austria and Germany this summer for a month... not a fan of pedestrians blindly stepping out in front of me. Should I just go for a normal bike bell working on the assumption that most people know the characteristic sound and what it means, or do people tune the traditional sound out and should I go with something more alarming, or will odd sounds just cause confusion? (there are bells with more of a doorbell sound)
Or do I just learn how to say "get the f%$ out of my way" in German and go from there?
In reply to thompsongirl:
My instinctive response to shouting is to ignore it, as 99% of the time it is a sign of something I don't want to be involved in. A bell on the other hand, is a sign that something is bearing down on me.
My instinctive response to shouting is to ignore it, as 99% of the time it is a sign of something I don't want to be involved in. A bell on the other hand, is a sign that something is bearing down on me.
In reply to thompsongirl:
You'll have to start shouting that about half a mile away to give time to finish the sentence!
> Or do I just learn how to say "get the f%$ out of my way" in German and go from there?
You'll have to start shouting that about half a mile away to give time to finish the sentence!
Post edited at 12:20
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In reply to thompsongirl:
I tend to find a polite 'coming though' works fine enough.
I once met a chap who rode around the world with one of those comedy clown horns attached to his bike. It doubled up nicely as an early warning system for bike thieves who couldn't resist a good squeeze.
I tend to find a polite 'coming though' works fine enough.
I once met a chap who rode around the world with one of those comedy clown horns attached to his bike. It doubled up nicely as an early warning system for bike thieves who couldn't resist a good squeeze.
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In reply to thompsongirl: Bell 100% - universal, effective, non offensive, cheap to buy/replace
Play your cards right and your travel companion(s) will have the same characteristics. But you'll love your bell for longer
Play your cards right and your travel companion(s) will have the same characteristics. But you'll love your bell for longer
In reply to thompsongirl:
Bells don't work.
Polite excuse me's don't work
Horns don't work.
Shouts don't really work.
All these things usually get you a sneering look or grudging movement an f off or nothing depending on the type of person.
If you can stand the embarrassment just have your brakes badly adjusted so they squeal, people step sharply out of the way whether they are a Chav thug or smart Daily Fail reader.
Cheers
Toby
Bells don't work.
Polite excuse me's don't work
Horns don't work.
Shouts don't really work.
All these things usually get you a sneering look or grudging movement an f off or nothing depending on the type of person.
If you can stand the embarrassment just have your brakes badly adjusted so they squeal, people step sharply out of the way whether they are a Chav thug or smart Daily Fail reader.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to thompsongirl:
I'm not sure about Austria and Germany, but from my experience in the UK as a mountain biker dealing with pedestrians, bells are the way to go. I used to try a polite 'excuse me", "bike coming through" etc and people didn't recognise or respond very well to a voice request. A lot of the time people would even ask where's my bell. Since using a bell people usually politely step out of the way.
I'm not sure about Austria and Germany, but from my experience in the UK as a mountain biker dealing with pedestrians, bells are the way to go. I used to try a polite 'excuse me", "bike coming through" etc and people didn't recognise or respond very well to a voice request. A lot of the time people would even ask where's my bell. Since using a bell people usually politely step out of the way.
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In reply to shantaram:
Personally I don't have a bell as I don't often share paths with pedestrians but I think they are probably more effective than a shout as people recognise it as a bike and it can cut through other noise a little more. That doesn't guarantee they'll respond in a predictable way though... especially if they are tethered to a dog by an extending garotting device...
Personally I don't have a bell as I don't often share paths with pedestrians but I think they are probably more effective than a shout as people recognise it as a bike and it can cut through other noise a little more. That doesn't guarantee they'll respond in a predictable way though... especially if they are tethered to a dog by an extending garotting device...
In reply to thompsongirl:
It's illegal to ride a bike without a bell in Germany, unless its a racing bike.
It's illegal to ride a bike without a bell in Germany, unless its a racing bike.
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In reply to thompsongirl:
Where I ride there are lots of horses and riders. Sans bell or alpenhorn I find a sharp cough when I'm fifty yds behind them usually works. Don't want a startled horse, and blinkies are worry enough.
Where I ride there are lots of horses and riders. Sans bell or alpenhorn I find a sharp cough when I'm fifty yds behind them usually works. Don't want a startled horse, and blinkies are worry enough.
In reply to thompsongirl:
If pedestrians are blocking my planned path, I ride up to them with the intention of stopping behind them.
On the rare occasions they haven't heard me by the time I have stopped, I say 'excuse me' in a normal voice.
There's no need to shout, and I think a bell sounds aggressive, as if I have a right to expect them to get out of my way, as if it is beneath me to have to stop.
What do you do as a cyclist, when you hear a car bearing down on you blasting their horn? Be honest!
If pedestrians are blocking my planned path, I ride up to them with the intention of stopping behind them.
On the rare occasions they haven't heard me by the time I have stopped, I say 'excuse me' in a normal voice.
There's no need to shout, and I think a bell sounds aggressive, as if I have a right to expect them to get out of my way, as if it is beneath me to have to stop.
What do you do as a cyclist, when you hear a car bearing down on you blasting their horn? Be honest!
In reply to Fredt:
I over think the thing where I worry that the bell sounds as you say, aggressive and if it's arrogant too in the expectation that people will jump out of the way. I do, however use the bell in some circumstances - where there's a large group of people all chatting away and where an additional voice won't be noticed, and generally on wide shared use paths where it's not difficult for space to be created, and in some circumstances I speak or raise my voice (wouldn't call it shouting though, more my public announcement voice). I think the most useful thing is the ticking free hub though. Now that says bicycle.
I over think the thing where I worry that the bell sounds as you say, aggressive and if it's arrogant too in the expectation that people will jump out of the way. I do, however use the bell in some circumstances - where there's a large group of people all chatting away and where an additional voice won't be noticed, and generally on wide shared use paths where it's not difficult for space to be created, and in some circumstances I speak or raise my voice (wouldn't call it shouting though, more my public announcement voice). I think the most useful thing is the ticking free hub though. Now that says bicycle.
In reply to Fredt:
In my experience that actually shocks people more than a bell, hearing a quiet voice close behind you when you thought you were alone can be shocking! Although I do agree that bells can be annoying too when used 'aggressively'.
> On the rare occasions they haven't heard me by the time I have stopped, I say 'excuse me' in a normal voice.
In my experience that actually shocks people more than a bell, hearing a quiet voice close behind you when you thought you were alone can be shocking! Although I do agree that bells can be annoying too when used 'aggressively'.
In reply to Oujmik:
Near us there's a 4 mile cycleway on an old railway line, fairly recently tarmaced. Bell is definitely the way to go, sound it well in advance then again a bit nearer if needed so no element of surprise. Shouting from distance or sneaking up and saying excuse me gives the old dears a heart attack. G
I got a fair bit of abuse before I got a bell, now everyone's pleasant and helpful despite my wearing lycra. Even the extending dog lead brigade don't get in a tizzy.
Slowing down and showing a bit of consideration probably helps, some of the knobhead cyclists hare along it at full pelt (mostly middle-aged men, Daily Mail commenters are right about some things)
Near us there's a 4 mile cycleway on an old railway line, fairly recently tarmaced. Bell is definitely the way to go, sound it well in advance then again a bit nearer if needed so no element of surprise. Shouting from distance or sneaking up and saying excuse me gives the old dears a heart attack. G
I got a fair bit of abuse before I got a bell, now everyone's pleasant and helpful despite my wearing lycra. Even the extending dog lead brigade don't get in a tizzy.
Slowing down and showing a bit of consideration probably helps, some of the knobhead cyclists hare along it at full pelt (mostly middle-aged men, Daily Mail commenters are right about some things)
In reply to thompsongirl:
Decently loud bell so it can be used at a safe distance away.
couple of pings on that if needed as closing and then a polite "excuse me" when right behind and they still havent noticed.
Decently loud bell so it can be used at a safe distance away.
couple of pings on that if needed as closing and then a polite "excuse me" when right behind and they still havent noticed.
In reply to thompsongirl:
As both a cyclist and a pedestrian I am convinced that a bell is the best way forward. Not aggressively used, but a polite "ding ding" when you are about 10 to 20 yards back from the pedestrian, to be repeated if they don't hear you. You MUST slow down anyway so that should give fair warning, but be prepared for them to be disorientated initially when they might step into your path whilst trying to work out where the sound has come from - hence the importance of slowing down. I always consider that a pedestrian with their back to you has absolute right of way and the onous is on the cyclist to avoid a collision and to avoid frightening them.
As both a cyclist and a pedestrian I am convinced that a bell is the best way forward. Not aggressively used, but a polite "ding ding" when you are about 10 to 20 yards back from the pedestrian, to be repeated if they don't hear you. You MUST slow down anyway so that should give fair warning, but be prepared for them to be disorientated initially when they might step into your path whilst trying to work out where the sound has come from - hence the importance of slowing down. I always consider that a pedestrian with their back to you has absolute right of way and the onous is on the cyclist to avoid a collision and to avoid frightening them.
4
In reply to :
It's probably worth considering that these are German walkers rather than passive aggressive Brits we are talking about, so a couple of dings on a decent bell and a cheery 'guten morgan' will probably be fine.
It's probably worth considering that these are German walkers rather than passive aggressive Brits we are talking about, so a couple of dings on a decent bell and a cheery 'guten morgan' will probably be fine.
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In reply to thompsongirl:
I generally say "there's a bike behind you" (not sure of the German) when about 20 yds back. More often than not the reply is "thank you". If shortened to "bike behind" I think the sudden harsh "k" sound in bike makes a lot of people jump. The big problem with all this is the ****wits who walk around with their ears blocked up i.e. using headphones.
I generally say "there's a bike behind you" (not sure of the German) when about 20 yds back. More often than not the reply is "thank you". If shortened to "bike behind" I think the sudden harsh "k" sound in bike makes a lot of people jump. The big problem with all this is the ****wits who walk around with their ears blocked up i.e. using headphones.
In reply to thompsongirl:
Sometimes the bell just doesn't seem to catch people's attention. I was wondering if a more unusual sound like maybe a duck caller would work. Or an air raid siren. I remember the nuclear attack sirens in Manchester catching people's attention in the eighties.
Sometimes the bell just doesn't seem to catch people's attention. I was wondering if a more unusual sound like maybe a duck caller would work. Or an air raid siren. I remember the nuclear attack sirens in Manchester catching people's attention in the eighties.
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In reply to thompsongirl:
I shout passing on your left from about 30 yds away. Mainly they are shocked and don't know their links von rechts, but at a slow speed it gives you time to adjust direction.
I shout passing on your left from about 30 yds away. Mainly they are shocked and don't know their links von rechts, but at a slow speed it gives you time to adjust direction.
1
In reply to thompsongirl: there. Are some very interesting opinions here but my assumption is that the op will mostly be on a bike path or the road rather than mountain biking. Is this correct?
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In reply to thompsongirl:
On the rare occasions I share a path with pedestrians, I generally find a polite "Excuse me" to be plenty. A bell seems almost an agressive "get out of the way", or often seems to be received that way, anyway - even on all the officially shared paths around where I live.
Having said that, I have a bell on the tandem, as the brakes aren't great, it has a longer stopping distance and is a bugger at very low speeds.
I'm currently fitting a bike seat for daughter on one bike and will get her a bell to play with - which means that everyone in a 2-mile radius will hear us coming
On the rare occasions I share a path with pedestrians, I generally find a polite "Excuse me" to be plenty. A bell seems almost an agressive "get out of the way", or often seems to be received that way, anyway - even on all the officially shared paths around where I live.
Having said that, I have a bell on the tandem, as the brakes aren't great, it has a longer stopping distance and is a bugger at very low speeds.
I'm currently fitting a bike seat for daughter on one bike and will get her a bell to play with - which means that everyone in a 2-mile radius will hear us coming
Post edited at 13:00
In reply to thompsongirl:
Be aware that you may give old people a heart attack if you cycle up behind them and then press it fully, but this horn is pretty loud at 115 db, and often makes people jump upon hearing it.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/samui-air-zound-3-rechargeable-horn-prod3/
You can just give it a gentle tap for a 'peep' noise while it's left on full. It's loud enough to echo off surrounding buildings. (:~))
Be aware that you may give old people a heart attack if you cycle up behind them and then press it fully, but this horn is pretty loud at 115 db, and often makes people jump upon hearing it.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/samui-air-zound-3-rechargeable-horn-prod3/
You can just give it a gentle tap for a 'peep' noise while it's left on full. It's loud enough to echo off surrounding buildings. (:~))
Post edited at 13:04
In reply to LastBoyScout:
I don't think bike bells sound particularly aggressive - seems like a perfectly suitable noise to alert another human to your presence.
I don't think bike bells sound particularly aggressive - seems like a perfectly suitable noise to alert another human to your presence.
In reply to thompsongirl:
It could be worth having something like this in your pack to recharge it with.
http://www.lezyne.com/product-hpumps-hv-microfldrhvg.php#.VR0xevnPrIU
It could be worth having something like this in your pack to recharge it with.
http://www.lezyne.com/product-hpumps-hv-microfldrhvg.php#.VR0xevnPrIU
In reply to thompsongirl:
A bell is perfect and quite polite but older walkers often don't hear bells as the tone is too high. If the bell fails a polite "bikes coming!" or "excuse me!" does the trick.
A bell is perfect and quite polite but older walkers often don't hear bells as the tone is too high. If the bell fails a polite "bikes coming!" or "excuse me!" does the trick.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Calling out 'hello' is my favourite way of alerting people if they're innocently unaware of me being there.
People with headphones on crossing the road without looking can need something more...
Calling out 'hello' is my favourite way of alerting people if they're innocently unaware of me being there.
People with headphones on crossing the road without looking can need something more...
In reply to Timmd:
Thats more a commuting on the streets option.
guess it depends on what she is looking for. Polite notification or "GET OUTTA MY WAY"
On cycle paths etc would go for a normal bell although one which reasonably loud so you can use it at a decent distance.
> You can just give it a gentle tap for a 'peep' noise while it's left on full. It's loud enough to echo off surrounding buildings. (:~))
Thats more a commuting on the streets option.
guess it depends on what she is looking for. Polite notification or "GET OUTTA MY WAY"
On cycle paths etc would go for a normal bell although one which reasonably loud so you can use it at a decent distance.
In reply to JMGLondon:
I find them not aggressive but surprising if walking on a shared path - all a bit of shock as they are abrupt and unexpected. I prefer a "excuse me" similar. Something like a cow-bell that is continuous rather than sudden would be nicer for pedestrians. (but perhaps not cyclists :_))
> I don't think bike bells sound particularly aggressive- seems like a perfectly suitable noise to alert another human to your presence.
I find them not aggressive but surprising if walking on a shared path - all a bit of shock as they are abrupt and unexpected. I prefer a "excuse me" similar. Something like a cow-bell that is continuous rather than sudden would be nicer for pedestrians. (but perhaps not cyclists :_))
I think that if people find bike bell aggressive / offensive where's something very wrong with them. Maybe ambulance sirens are harassing those folks as well? It's well known sound and it is used by cyclist to identify themselves. It's not necessary has to do anything with giving the way. It's more to make sure people are aware that where's bike incoming. Even if I am dashing at full speed few meters away past walkers it's better to signal them.
Not signaling is ignorant!
Post edited at 13:54
In reply to nutme:
No comparison, - an ambulance siren means "get out of f*cking way this is an emergency". And yes, they are meant to harass those who may be slow on the uptake.
God forbid that a bicycle bell should have the same meaning.
> I think that if people find bike bell aggressive / offensive where's something very wrong with them. Maybe ambulance sirens are harassing those folks as well?
No comparison, - an ambulance siren means "get out of f*cking way this is an emergency". And yes, they are meant to harass those who may be slow on the uptake.
God forbid that a bicycle bell should have the same meaning.
In reply to nutme:
My reaction to a warning is to get out of the way or take avoiding action. It's maybe a car driving reaction. So when running on mixed use paths a cycle behind that pings loudly is in danger of having me leap straight into its path. I'd rather something like "passing you on the right", or best, nothing at all.
The only problem with that is I'm given to spontaneous weaving about.
> I think that if people find bike bell aggressive / offensive where's something very wrong with them.
My reaction to a warning is to get out of the way or take avoiding action. It's maybe a car driving reaction. So when running on mixed use paths a cycle behind that pings loudly is in danger of having me leap straight into its path. I'd rather something like "passing you on the right", or best, nothing at all.
The only problem with that is I'm given to spontaneous weaving about.
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In reply to digby:
Personally on shared paths I prefer a bell (as it says bike) but given well in advance - not just when you're about to pass, but when you are at least 5-10 seconds from passing, so there is time to look around and invisibly negotiate which way to move (by way of body language).
To the pedestrian on shared paths - if you want nothing at all, leave space for a bike to pass without the need for the bell
Neil
Personally on shared paths I prefer a bell (as it says bike) but given well in advance - not just when you're about to pass, but when you are at least 5-10 seconds from passing, so there is time to look around and invisibly negotiate which way to move (by way of body language).
To the pedestrian on shared paths - if you want nothing at all, leave space for a bike to pass without the need for the bell
Neil
Post edited at 14:52
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In reply to thompsongirl:
I have found that waiting until you are close to someone before alerting them of your presence is bound to get an unwelcome reaction.
The aim is to ring the bell from far enough away to give them a chance to turn around and see where you are and avoid moving into your path.
If someone came up quietly behind you and shouted 'boo' what would you do?
If someone steps into your path, ringing a bell isn't going to do anything, even if you can react in time. That's when you shout.
I have found that waiting until you are close to someone before alerting them of your presence is bound to get an unwelcome reaction.
The aim is to ring the bell from far enough away to give them a chance to turn around and see where you are and avoid moving into your path.
If someone came up quietly behind you and shouted 'boo' what would you do?
If someone steps into your path, ringing a bell isn't going to do anything, even if you can react in time. That's when you shout.
Post edited at 14:53
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In reply to Neil Williams:
Doesn't stop them unfortunately! And I hate trying to turn round to look when running.
What bikes need is a continuous sound. The cogs used to do this but they are pretty silent now.
> To the pedestrian on shared paths - if you want nothing at all, leave space for a bike to pass without the need for the bell
Doesn't stop them unfortunately! And I hate trying to turn round to look when running.
What bikes need is a continuous sound. The cogs used to do this but they are pretty silent now.
1
In reply to DancingOnRock:
I've tried singing loudly, but that get's an equally unwelcome reaction for some reason.
I've tried singing loudly, but that get's an equally unwelcome reaction for some reason.
In reply to thompsongirl:
My biggest worry when i lived in Austria was waking up and wondering if i'd walked or rode my bike back from the pub. Then i'd find it in the bike rack underneath my apartment with the rear light flashing. Safety first you see !!!!
My biggest worry when i lived in Austria was waking up and wondering if i'd walked or rode my bike back from the pub. Then i'd find it in the bike rack underneath my apartment with the rear light flashing. Safety first you see !!!!
In reply to digby:
They're now called Hope hubs.
youtube.com/watch?v=krw1bRVmvhA&
> What bikes need is a continuous sound. The cogs used to do this but they are pretty silent now.
They're now called Hope hubs.
youtube.com/watch?v=krw1bRVmvhA&
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
My pub bike used to make a pretty good noise - until I replaced the chain :-D
Looks like it's back to the "playing card in the rear spokes to sound like a motorbike" trick...
My pub bike used to make a pretty good noise - until I replaced the chain :-D
Looks like it's back to the "playing card in the rear spokes to sound like a motorbike" trick...
Post edited at 16:30
In reply to LastBoyScout:
On a mountain bike tyres can make a massive difference. When I havent ridden my road/cx bike for a while I have spent a little while puzzled trying to figure out what i am missing and why I am thinking the day is quiet. It generally slowly dawns on me I am not noticing the tyre noise.
Its the angry swarm of bees approaching which gets attention..
> Looks like it's back to the "playing card in the rear spokes to sound like a motorbike" trick...
On a mountain bike tyres can make a massive difference. When I havent ridden my road/cx bike for a while I have spent a little while puzzled trying to figure out what i am missing and why I am thinking the day is quiet. It generally slowly dawns on me I am not noticing the tyre noise.
Its the angry swarm of bees approaching which gets attention..
Post edited at 02:03
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
They're not that loud, hugi hubs have a much better crackle.
To Op, I just speak to people, call out, hello, track, yo, coming through, cheers, etc. I think shouting get the f*ck out of my way would sound a bit crazy, but you may have the sweet tones to pull it off! Maybe now would be a fine time one would think to learn some relevant foreign phrases and do some work on the accent
> They're now called Hope hubs.
They're not that loud, hugi hubs have a much better crackle.
To Op, I just speak to people, call out, hello, track, yo, coming through, cheers, etc. I think shouting get the f*ck out of my way would sound a bit crazy, but you may have the sweet tones to pull it off! Maybe now would be a fine time one would think to learn some relevant foreign phrases and do some work on the accent
1
In reply to mcdweeb:
Polite ping on approach.
Second polite ping a bit closer.
Then either an "Excuse me, can I come past?" Or a "coming past on your right/left", if it's clear.
All the time slowing, in case they do something dumb.
Pedestrians have as much right as cyclists to be on shared paths. Yeah, it's frustrating when I lose all my speed at the foot of a limb, but it's all good practice.
What does bug me a little is when a group of folk (walkers / dogs / horses / bikes) split to both sides and leave a narrow gap, instead of all moving together to the inside.
Polite ping on approach.
Second polite ping a bit closer.
Then either an "Excuse me, can I come past?" Or a "coming past on your right/left", if it's clear.
All the time slowing, in case they do something dumb.
Pedestrians have as much right as cyclists to be on shared paths. Yeah, it's frustrating when I lose all my speed at the foot of a limb, but it's all good practice.
What does bug me a little is when a group of folk (walkers / dogs / horses / bikes) split to both sides and leave a narrow gap, instead of all moving together to the inside.
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