UKC

Was climbing in water cum jolly today and was harassed by a very aggressive and angry man who trampled across the river and all across the foliage within the river just to do this - directly over river bird nesting sites.

He was shouting that we shouldn't be there, have no respect for the wildlife and until a few weeks ago there had been ravens nesting, so there was a bird ban. He was quiet for a few seconds when I explained we had reported poachers in the area in the past - no respect for wildlife hey!!

There were 2 of us, talking at normal conversation volume, we had used the described approach and had not caused any damage nor were we planning to leave any signs that we had been there. There was a morehen nest slightly further down the bank and she did not seam bothered by us being there until this idiot started ranting.

We let him rant - when he had finished, I said I would take the clips out and we would leave, it was the easiest option. This did not seam to please him, the rant continued and he said he would call the police next time - please do and I will tell them about the harassment we had endured.

I am fully aware for the sensitive situation in this area of the peak but this behavior was unacceptable on all levels. If he had a problem all he needed to do was say something along the lines of 'while the river birds are nesting we would appreciate it if you would climb somewhere else' - how hard can it be to be polite and respectful and in return gain respect - respect for this guy was zero by 5 seconds in.

He happily gloated that he had chased climbers off every day this week. Unfortunately I forgot to ask who he was and which organisation he represented as he may not actually have the authority to do this if the climbing in not on land owned by that organisation.

I am going to let the BMC reps know about this - we were keeping a low profile but obviously that isn't enough for this man who probably has nothing better to do with his time than be angry at the world and take it out on climbers.

If anyone is planning to climb anywhere except raven tor or rubicon be ready to have verbal abuse hurled at you by one very very angry man.

In reply to SM101:

Was this Central Buttress? I saw a team get shouted at last summer (I was walking down the main path). The fishermen seems angry about climbers 'disturbing wildlife'. He then drove off (?!) down the path in his van.
I think the advice is to keep a low profile and move on if told to, though the angling club don't own the land the crag is on - only the river and the path. And let the BMC know. Nice one!

I was climbing at the WCJ Cornice last Monday, the 4th of may and someone shouted across to us. He wanted to know the name of the crag so that he could contact the BMC regarding access. He was friendly and told us that we weren't allowed there but he said that he didn't mind us climbing there for the day.

Yesterday I was climbing at Majorca buttress, and 2 fisherman came and told us that we weren't allowed there, it was an SSSI and that we should leave. They seemed friendly enough although I did I apologize and tell them that it was not mentioned in our guidebook (the 2012 rockfax) and that we did not know, and then we left. Ironically they would be causing more disturbance by walking down the nice grassy island to tell us off than we would be ourselves! I also forgot to ask who they were.

On both occasions the fisherman had clearly walked quite a way along just to tell us off, along the island in the middle of the river, not a path. We were not being loud or disruptive in any way. They also said that the BMC website says that access is banned and that it says you can go there but just avoid being caught, which from what I've found by searching online isn't quite the case and it sounds like there is a misunderstanding here.

I can't find any details of a bird ban anywhere? and by looking at the BMC Rad page it sounds like the SSSI is not an issue as we are keeping to the paths. I have emailed the BMC about this.

In reply to Tophe:

They are still playing the SSSI card.
From RAD:
The fact that a crag is situated within a SSSI does not mean it cannot be climbed on, with many of the UK’s most well known and used crags falling within SSSI boundaries. (The BMC itself owns several crags located within a SSSI, including the nearby Horseshoe Quarry). Providing climbing doesn’t damage the interest features of a SSSI, there is no reason to ban climbing.

In reply to SM101:

Why are you (and others in this thread) leaving because randomers ask you to? If they aren't the land owner or a representative of the land owner they have no right to ask you to leave. Why on earth would you pay them any attention?

In reply to Removed User:

exactly,well said,tell them to leave you alone and get on with their own business

In reply to mark20:


I find this HIGHLY ironic.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Also the Creesbrook Mafia will usuly have their unleashed dirt machines intow rummaging through the undergrowth. They then start screaming at climbers about disturbing wildlife.

In reply to kristian:

We challenged him with exactly that point. What was he doing tramping about on the vegetation in the middle of the river. He had no answer to justify that fact that he was causing much more impact on the wildlife than 2 people who had followed an approach path and were being quiet on a gravel patch below the crag. Obviously there people think they alone have the right to enjoy Wye valley. Not disturbing the wildlife whilst wading in the river, sports fishing and shouting at others who are minding their own business. Maybe he should have focused on the dog walkers who's dog was chasing the swans!

In reply to SM101:
As far as I am aware, the situation described here is still current - http://www.rockfax.com/news/2015/01/12/water-cum-jolly-access-2/

This basically means that you can climb on the south bank (Central Buttress, Cornice) and you can climb at Rubicon. The area including Jackdaw to Ping and Pong is the only one where access is dubious since DWT own this and have stated that they don't allow climbing although the BMC do not support this restriction.

Alan

In reply to SM101:
I have met this 'angry little man' on a number of occasions in relation to climbing on the south bank over the past couple of years. I have let him rant, explained calmly that I won't be leaving until the end of the day and calmly asked him to leave me alone: there is nothing to be gained from shouting or ranting in his self-ordained way. He has absolutely no legal right to ask you to leave and doing so subscribes to his demands: the land is not owned by him and is leased for grazing rights by local two local farmers, from which there have never been any complaints. We must stand up for our rights to climb here, as we have been doing so for around 50 years. I agree with Alan that there are some issues from Jackdaw Point south to just beyond Ping and Pong but this is complex and not easy to define.

The BMC have done a lot of work on this, to which Alan and others have contributed, which will be outlined in the new Peak Limestone North guide out late next week or the week after and to maintain our access to these crags we must continue to use them.

In reply to Gary Gibson:

Gary, thanks for the new routes on Majorca buttress, I went the other night and really enjoyed some of them.

In reply to Gary Gibson:

Thanks for the info Gary - we were on majorca buttress
Now I know this man has no legal right to demand climbers leave I will be asking him to stop harassing us and taking a photo of him trampling over the vegetation in the middle of the river and explaining I will find out who I need to report him to for not sticking to marked paths/tracks in a SSSI area.

The only reason we left was because I was unsure as to any access issues on the south side of the river and wanted to find out before we told him to leave us alone and concentrate on killing the fish (40% of fish still die due to catch/release fishing).

Thanks for all the useful info and if anyone else encounters this 'angry little man' please let the BMC know, especially when he is damaging the nesting areas in the middle of the river.

In reply to SM101:

Following on from some excellent work from Henry Folkard and Jon Fullwood, the situation on the South Bank has now been clarified as below:

Access to the South Bank of WCJ
The south bank of the river is designated as open access land under CRoW and climbers have a legal right of access to the crags on this bank. Climbers have been challenged by bailiffs in the past whilst climbing on this side of the river. Given that access for climbing is a legal right on this bank, please report any instances of confrontation regarding access on this side of the dale to the BMC.

The crags on this side of the dale have historically been reached by wading across the river at the weir just downstream of Litton Mill, but please avoid this now and use the following approaches instead:
· For Moat Buttress, Crunch/Mallorca Buttress and the Cornice park at Cressbrook, cross the bridge at Rubicon Wall and contour the hillside above the crag. Cross the fence at a bend in the path (at the west exit of a tunnel) and either drop down steeply to Moat Buttress etc, or continue briefly along the trail before dropping down before the next tunnel entrance to get to the Cornice.
· Central Buttress is best approached from Litton Mill by crossing the footbridge at LM, following the track and then contouring the hillside low before dropping down. Alternatively, follow a more defined path above the trail before dropping down a grassy slope to the crag.

Also reported here - http://www.rockfax.com/news/2015/05/20/water-cum-jolly-south-bank-access-up...

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

Well done to both Henry and Jon, let's hope this resolves the issues.

In reply to kristian:

Crag Lough is an SSSI on account of the rock. The landowners (NT) and Natural England help us when we have an annual crag cleanup - removing trees and suchlike. The NT actually encourage climbing there, and NE want the place kept clear of encroaching vegetation. And peregrines nest there. How different access is in different places.