UKC

What is the consensus on here of using this to abb off on? I thought if it looked good, its fine to use( I apply common sense)
My alpine partner insists on using new cord. He was told during his training not to use any in situ chord that looks older than 4 months.

Opinions please.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Maybe your Alpine partner needs to start thinking for himself?


Chris

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

As Chris has said, use your own brain to decide. Don't think you can put a timescale on how short or long it takes for the tat for degrade as it varies, plus you never know how old it is.

I did a route recently and replaced a good looking thread, looking through old pics on this site showed the thread was nearly 10 years old!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I'd simply like to know if everyone uses new chord? If they do I'd be shocked.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

I am not sure what 4 month old tat looks like......

I normally have a few metres of ab cord in my sack plus mallion but I have very rarely used them. I just follow the rule of inspecting the in situ cord / knot / mallion to ensure its ok. Sometimes you can make things safer by using the in situ mallion to link several threads etc. If I think things do not look ok then I use my gear.

Davey

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Send the fat lad first, off the old tat but backed up with something else. That's always worked for me.

In reply to victim of mathematics:

If looks good, go for it. Otherwise cut it all out and replace with something better. I get really annoyed with pegs and bolts you can't clip properly because they are choked with old cord and tape.

In reply to victim of mathematics:


Ah, but has it always worked for the fat lad?

In reply to jon:

I'm always the 'fat lad' and it's always worked for me. To be really sure, send the fat lad with both packs so that the last person down is as light as possible.

In reply to Mountain Llama:

The four months is a quote

In reply to Phil Payne:


Spend less on food and more on spare cord

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Any spare tat I have in my sac is going to be older than four months!

In reply to victim of mathematics:


OK, but there are extra measures you can take like clipping some gear on the way down for the last man, I always find it quite comforting.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Slightly mendaciously, but not totally
............ giving your alpine partner (potential partner or current partner ?) 100% leeway,
how does 2 month old tat look different to 8 month old tat?
Let's have 4 month old tat for reference

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

No one has a clue about what four months of age looks like. And based on returning to slings I've placed myself, I'd guess that two years is a more reasonable time frame than four months. But no one knows what two years looks like either.

Generally speaking, cord (with kernmantle construction) is better than webbing.

Two things one can at least think about: amount of bleaching, and pliability. I won't even use the fat guy gambit on slings that are bleached white or are stiff and crunchy---they get replaced. If the slings are threaded through piton eyes, or are around trees, I have to be able to rotate them to inspect whether there are cuts on the out-of-sight parts. (Admittedly, some threaded slings can't be moved for inspection and if cut, will block the passage to threading a new sling.)

In desperate conditions, it is a judgement call. In all other circumstances, I try to back up any in-situ gear with something good that the last person down removes, even if everything looks quite good. Make sure the backup is rigged so as not to take any of the load!

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Use common sense?
If you think it's o.k, use it. If you don't, replace it

What's your life worth? A couple of quid for some tat and a maillon.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

While we're on this subject can I put in a request that if the existing tat's appearance doesn't fill you with confidence and you decide to use your own, please cut away the oldest, shaggiest piece of tat, take it home with you and put it in the bin. Then add your new piece and go abseiling.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Usually if there is any doubt in my mind I'll cut and replace it. I usually carry a 5 or 10 meters of tat just in a wee roll. It weighs almost nothing, packs down small and just makes descents in bad situations easier.

If I don't have any tat ill usually back up the anchor and send my partner down first ( I've never climbed with someone heavier than me ). If it holds then I'll clear the backup up and abb off.

In reply to Martin McKenna - Rockfax:


Wouldn't it make more sense for the heavy person to go first (as above)?

In reply to rgold:
In the UK it's more likely to be green mold and damp that does the damage not sun bleaching.

With regard to sending the fat lad down first, it doesn't really make me feel any more secure. I don't know if there is any evidence to suggest that this is safer. He may have just weakened it.

Al

In reply to humptydumpty: Brain fart! I was meaning lighter. I'm only 8 stone odd (55kg).

In reply to rgold:

Thanks for that.

I know what old tat looks like. I also have good judgement. Thanks for the replies, some useful info.

The fact it was a bona of contention between us having different views was why I posted it on here.

In reply to GridNorth:


I actually know of a case in which the anchor failed after the fat lad successfully went down first. The climber who fell survived, although he went down a snow chute, over a cliff band, down another snow couloir, and stopped just short of a huge cliff band that would certainly have been fatal.

Although I don't bother much with sending the heaviest person down first, I'm a big fan of the non-load-bearing backup for everyone but the last person down. I should add that having done this many hundreds of times, I have never had the in-situ anchor fail and the backup come into play, but may be because I don't use the backed-up method on really bad-looking anchors, I just redo those.

It is possible that the backed-up rappellers add just the load necessary to cause the anchor to fail for the last person, but I still think this bit of very bad luck is unlikely and that the backed-up test will usually be decisive.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:


How bluntly can I put this?

Your partner might very well have a longer life than some other climbers.

I am sorry for the bluntness / apparent coldness.